War of the World's Blew my LSiC

tdeluce

I just bought an EARTHQUAKE SOUND CINENOVA 3 with
the following specs for my front 3 channels:

Number of channels: Three discrete monaural blocks.
Power rating per channel:
(8-ohm load), all channels driven: 300 watts.
(4-ohm load), all channels driven: 600 watts.
(2-ohm load), all channels driven: 1000 watts.
Freq. Response (@1 W w/ ±0.1dB: 20 Hz to 20 kHz.
Channel separation: greater than 95 dB.
Max. input voltage: 1.9 volts.
Input impedance: 27,000 ohms.
Total harmonic distortion -THD:
1 kHz, 8-ohm load: 0.001%.
20 kHz, 8-ohm load: 0.003%.
1 kHz, 4-ohm load: 0.003%.
20 kHz, 4-ohm load: 0.006%.
1 kHz, 2-ohm load: 0.005%.
20 kHz, 2-ohm load: 0.006%.
Signal to noise ratio:
@ 1 kHz, 112 dB.
@ 5 kHz, 111 dB.
@ 10 kHz, 110 dB.
High-pass / low pass variable filter, range 20 Hz to 5 kHz (one/ channel).
High-pass/Full range/Low pass operation via 3-way switches (one switch per channel).
Dimensions: 9.25" x 18" x 21" (H x W x D).
Gross Weight : 119 lbs

---

I am going to use the M2200s to drive my
surrounds - I shouldn't have any problems
with the above :-)

tdeluce

Frank Z wrote:

Was it set to Small or Large?

all my speakers and set to small so that my Velodyne HGS-15X w/SMS-1
can do its magic :-)

McLoki

tdeluce wrote:

I just bought an EARTHQUAKE SOUND CINENOVA 3 with
the following specs for my front 3 channels:

Number of channels: Three discrete monaural blocks.
Power rating per channel:
(8-ohm load), all channels driven: 300 watts.
(4-ohm load), all channels driven: 600 watts.
(2-ohm load), all channels driven: 1000 watts.


Dimensions: 9.25" x 18" x 21" (H x W x D).
Gross Weight : 119 lbs

I am going to use the M2200s to drive my
surrounds - I shouldn't have any problems
with the above :-)

Sounds very impressive. Let us know your impressions on that compared to the oulaws.

Michael

tdeluce

McLoki wrote:

Sounds very impressive. Let us know your impressions on that compared to the oulaws.

Michael

Will do - I am suppose to receive it on Tuesday...

I also checked the CINEPRO 3k6 which looks like quite a monster - was
going to bi-amp my LSi15s and LSiC with it but found a really good deal
on the Earthquake CineNova Grande 3 which seems to good to be true
at this point :-)

Larry Chanin

Ferres wrote:

I wasn't listening at referrence level and the 'horn' distrotion sound only happened at that one scene. Perhaps my center is just not up to snuff:)

I'll set it to 'small' and see what happens. Do you think the Polk CSI5 could do a better job on this?

Thanks

Hi,

Since you specifically mentioned hearing distortion during the horn scene, and not other bass heavy scenes, I assumed it was the tweeter having problems, not the bass driver. However, as I suggested earlier, it's always possible that that scene had both high energy treble and high energy bass and therefore was particularly challenging.

Obviously, if the scene contained only the high energy treble, changing your speaker setting to small shouldn't make a difference.

I would think that nowadays with action movies providing a lot more challenging bass, it would be prudent to set any speaker that's not a full range speaker to small. In fact, if you've got a decent subwoofer, it even makes sense to set your full range speakers to small, not so much for protection, but to permit the subwoofer to handle low frequencies that the mains can't handle as well.

If your question is comparing the CSi5 to the LSiC, assuming there was adequate amplification in either case, I doubt the CSi5 would do a better job handling energetic movies. Although they have the same power handling specs, the LSiC's can go 5 Hz lower, so presumably it would distort less with lower bass. In my opinion neither speaker should be set to large if you plan on watching action movies.

Larry

McLoki

I have to agree. If possible, I would run the LSiC set to small with a 60hz or 80hz crossover. (I would also set your fronts (lsi15?) to small and set them with a 40hz or 60hz crossover.)

At least give it a shot and see if you are happier with the sound. Let your sub do what it is supposed to and don't let the bass energy that your main speakers cant produce correctly anyway muck up your sound.

Michael

Ferres

Thanks, I'll test out the 'small' setting later after work.

I'm using lsi9's as mains. Their set to large because the sub runs parallel with the mains. I'm using a marantz 6300 as pre/pro, this model has a weak and unsatisfying sub/out. No distortion with the mains at all but my center is a Kef Q10c metaldome tweeter types which I plan to replace at some point.

VR3

I just got through watching this movie...

I didnt hear any distortion...

I played it around -10 on the B&K with a 4db boost in the bass. TONS* of low bass in this movie... I was bouncing around in the seat...

The horns are more of a midrange sound with a subtle bass tone - not really tweeter material all in all. Maybe a little bit.

But I was sitting off axis and wasnt getting the grunt of it...

Excellent sound.

I like the fact that when the tripods stepped... the bass just moved everything... and when they broke through their hole... man - just great, low bass. Excellent.

dholmes

I watched it the other day ,my new SVS sub set at 1/3 gain & pre-pro sub level at -5,overall volume at -8. It rocked the house, my HT room floor is concrete, my sons room is upstairs at the other end of the house & he felt it shake his room. It is one of the loudest dvds since Underworld.

Ferres

Well, after setting the center to small, I still got the distortion during the first 'horn' sound but was a little less this time. This only happens in that one scene. Throughout the rest of the movie, everything was fine.

Perhaps I should seriously consider the csi5 but I'm worried about the size.

Thanks for the assist guys.

McLoki

ferres - what does your sysem consist of? speakers and AVR or amplifier? Do you have a radio shack SPL meter? if so, how loud is the horn when it distorts and how far are you sitting from your center channel?

Michael

wingnut4772

I just got this DVD today and I plan on seeing how it goes with my SVS. Tdeluce, what did you set the crosover to and what is your system powered by? It is possible that if you are playing too loudly you could be experiencing clipping...especially if you find the problem reduced by raising the crossover.

scubamike

I just watched WOTW last night and my csi5 sounded great, no distorsion at all and I had it cranked just in case the neighbors were interested.

Airplay355

take the jumpers off the binding terminals and listen to the horn scene...based on what part of the speaker you are listening to you can determine if the horn scene is more of a treble, midrange sound or a mixture of both. something to do when you are bored. just don't try it at reference level.

Ferres

McLoki wrote:

ferres - what does your sysem consist of? speakers and AVR or amplifier? Do you have a radio shack SPL meter? if so, how loud is the horn when it distorts and how far are you sitting from your center channel?

Michael

I use 2 parasound 1200II for center and surrounds and 1 parasound 2200II for the mains. The Marantz AVR is only used as a pre/pro.

I don't have an spl meter, I just set up by ear.
I'm beginning to think it is the metaldome tweeter of the Kef that is not handling it well since the problem is not common to many.

The first horn scene may well be a combination of both trebble and mid range. This was mentioned somewhere in the forum.

Can I use a csi5 as a base for a small plasma screen?

Sami

Ferres wrote:

I don't have an spl meter, I just set up by ear.

Then you don't know if you were listening to reference level, below it or above it.

Ferres

I definitely do not listen at referrence level. The place is too small for that kind of volume. I listen at -18 to -21 level.

tdeluce

wingnut4772 wrote:

I just got this DVD today and I plan on seeing how it goes with my SVS. Tdeluce, what did you set the crosover to and what is your system powered by? It is possible that if you are playing too loudly you could be experiencing clipping...especially if you find the problem reduced by raising the crossover.

All of my speakers are set to small and xover at 60 Hz ( since I have
a rock solid flat response with my Velodyne HGS-15X w/SMS-1 from
about 16 Hz to 58 Hz ).

I drive my LCR with three separate Outlaw Monoblock 300 watt per
channel amps.

I calibrated my system to be 75 dB from 9 feet away from the LCRs.
It is possible the amp cliped on a particular scene and my Outlaw
amp went into protection mode. I watched the 'Skeleton Key" the
following night and this happened again ( this time it was DD and not DTS ).

I have ordered a new 600 watt per channel 3 channel amp which I will
have on Tuesday and plan on watching War of the Worlds again...

Airplay355

Is your speaker fixed?

tdeluce

Airplay355 wrote:

Is your speaker fixed?

What do you mean by fixed?


It is on a shelf below my TV on top of isolation padss...

beardog03

is it working properly..?

tdeluce

beardog03 wrote:

is it working properly..?

Oh yea, its working :-)

BIZILL

Ferres wrote:

I wasn't listening at referrence level and the 'horn' distrotion sound only happened at that one scene. Perhaps my center is just not up to snuff:)

I'll set it to 'small' and see what happens. Do you think the Polk CSI5 could do a better job on this?

Thanks

i think i got the same distortion sound you got. i'm not quite ready to admit i have distortion though, as any other loud movie i've ever watched never had a problem. i'm too lazy to replay that part as the movie sucked too hard anyway. btw, i listened to the dts track. maybe the sound effect was meant to sound that way. can't quite explain what it even sounded like.

BIZILL

okay, so i'm not as lazy as i thought. just played back that scene. at lower volume it made the same distortion-like sound. re-tried it with dolby digital vs. dts. same outcome. thank god for banana plugs. pluged center channel to play through the right rti8...same outcome. the sound is was recorded that way. it's not distortion, but damn hell sounds like it is. very shi**y in my opinion. actually sounds like my tweets are ready to explode.

Ferres

BIZILL wrote:

i think i got the same distortion sound you got. i'm not quite ready to admit i have distortion though, as any other loud movie i've ever watched never had a problem. i'm too lazy to replay that part as the movie sucked too hard anyway. btw, i listened to the dts track. maybe the sound effect was meant to sound that way. can't quite explain what it even sounded like.

It sounds like someone flipping the edges of a thick book. It's only at that one particular scene. Thanks for taking the time to check it out.

It isn't the best movie but the sound is great if you like a lot of rumble. This is the only movie I watch for the sound effects and not the actual movie :P

Btw, if you guys had a choice would you go with the CSI5 or the older CS400i for your center?

tonygeno

tdeluce wrote:

All of my speakers are set to small and xover at 60 Hz ( since I have
a rock solid flat response with my Velodyne HGS-15X w/SMS-1 from
about 16 Hz to 58 Hz ).

I drive my LCR with three separate Outlaw Monoblock 300 watt per
channel amps.

I calibrated my system to be 75 dB from 9 feet away from the LCRs.
It is possible the amp cliped on a particular scene and my Outlaw
amp went into protection mode. I watched the 'Skeleton Key" the
following night and this happened again ( this time it was DD and not DTS ).

I have ordered a new 600 watt per channel 3 channel amp which I will
have on Tuesday and plan on watching War of the Worlds again...

I would up the crossovers to 80. You will increase your power handling, play with lower distortion, have less strain on the amps, and it will just sound better. The center in particular is not really made to play to 60: two 5.25 inch drivers can only go so low.

tdeluce

tonygeno wrote:

I would up the crossovers to 80. You will increase your power handling, play with lower distortion, have less strain on the amps, and it will just sound better. The center in particular is not really made to play to 60: two 5.25 inch drivers can only go so low.

The LSiC is rated down to 40Hz with a -3db at 52 Hz. I have it Xover
at 60 Hz so that I get flat room response with my Velodyne Sub-woofer...

I have a three channel 600 watt per channel amp arriving this week so
hopefully that fixes everything. Otherwise, I need to upgrade my speakers...

tonygeno

It may be rated down to 52, but it's not going to do it with power. 105db at 60 out of 2 5.25" woofers is not going to happen. Does the Velodyne only go up to 60? If not, I'd try the setup at 80 and increase my power handling and the chance that I can hit reference without blowing speakers or overtaxing amplifiers.

tdeluce

tonygeno wrote:

It may be rated down to 52, but it's not going to do it with power. 105db at 60 out of 2 5.25" woofers is not going to happen. Does the Velodyne only go up to 60? If not, I'd try the setup at 80 and increase my power handling and the chance that I can hit reference without blowing speakers or overtaxing amplifiers.

The LSiC is rated down to 40 and the Velodyne goes way above 60 but I start
to get a non-flat response curve above 60...

- 3 dB at 52 means it should play -3 dB less at 52 Hz than it does through
the passband which should work well for me since I have the Xover set
at 60 Hz for my Velodyne subwoofer...

Surely, the center should be able to play reference or even higher
throughout the passband...

Larry Chanin

tdeluce wrote:

Oh yea, its working :-)

Hi,

I was wondering if you could elaborate?

Did the speaker just start to work after "resting"? If so this could suggest that the tweeter's thermal protection tripped and reset after it cooled down. However, if that were the case you would have heard your other drivers continue to work even if the tweeter was silent.

tdeluce wrote:

I have a three channel 600 watt per channel amp arriving this week so
hopefully that fixes everything. Otherwise, I need to upgrade my speakers...

I'm wondering whether those expectations are realistic if you plan on playing this particular movie at reference level? It would be interesting to know whether Polk Audio has any technical information that would indicate what the maximum volume their LSIC's are rated for before the protective tweeter circuit operates, or overall failure occurs?

Based on the speakers efficiency and it's maximum power rating we can guess that the maximum sound pressure level a meter away from the speaker would be between 109 and 112 dB. This was arrived at by knowing that at 1 watt this speaker will put out an spl of 88 dB as measured 1 meter away. If we double the power the spl will increase by 3 dB. So at 2 watts it will put out 91 dB. If we continue in this manner at 128 watts it will put out 109 dBs and at 256 watt, 112 dB.

Larry