Ashamed to be a man

BIZILL

.....and political talk?

Jstas

madmax wrote:

Sometimes I think we are just too worried about everyones rights. The proper response to the above problem would be to go kick the guys **** everytime she calls. It wouldn't be too long until he quit.

madmax

That would work if it was a simple anger management issue. The problem is that the root of such behavior is a mental illness of some sort and not a simple anger management issue. Even people who are prone to anger quickly will stop short of physical harm if all they have is an issue dealing with anger. The point where it goes to an extreme like physical spousal abuse is not normal behavior and evidence or a person with psychological issues that need to be worked through. ****-kickings and jailtime doesn't solve teh problem, it only exacerbates it.

The women who keep going back most likely have mental health problems too. Those problems mostly existed before the relationship started and teh abuse only serves to root them farther into her psyche and make things even worse.

The problems are not so simple to solve and it sucks that when the call comes in, you've been to the same house so many times that you don't even have to think about how to get there. Everytime, medical treatment is denied by the victim and the abuser sits in a cop car until the victim says she isn't pressing charges. He's released, they "kiss and make up" and then go back inside only to start the vicious cycle all over again. New laws in many jurisdictions have given the police the right to press charges against the abuser if there is significant physical evidence of abuse and harm and an inten to further the abuse.

Running on an ambulance squad, there are many times when you want to haul off and kick the crap out of some flesh-bag that real deserves it but you can't. There are some houses where we won't go without armed officers present. It's a different side that the average wannabe hero doesn't get to see. Because of the mental illness involved in alot of these abuse cases, the abuser and abusee are unstable and volitile and could do anything from pull a gun to stick someone with an AIDS infected needle (don't think that one hasn't happened more than once). For lack of an effective term, it's some pretty **** up **** right there and you just don't go messing with it. As a citizen you have an immense power. If you call the police and complain, they have to investigate. You don't even have to give your name. If you say someone is being hurt, top priority is assigned to the call and many officers respond to the call for not only short response time but also backup because you never know what anyone is capable of. Mouthing off to some guy beating some girl in a fit of rage is a severe underestimation of your opponent. You have no idea what that guy is on, what is going through his head or even what he is capable of.

aaharvel

brettw22 wrote:

This is a ridiculous comment.....I find it hard to believe that the reason someone would get involved is because they want to stroke their ego.

everyone thinks different, but to say that that is a ridiculous comment I disagree. I've seen it happen before, especially in the aftermath of the event.

wodom1

My girlfriend used to be a children's counsellor at a domestic violence shelter. She would talk to all these kids whose parents are beating the crap out of each other. She has some very sad stories.

BIZILL

jstas, in a nutshell, said it all. but still, my natural instincs must be kept at bay for me to adhere to his suggestion to steer clear.

F1nut

Bear,

You did right, hell they should have given you a effing medal!!!

reeltrouble1

1. Notify/Report the situation
2. Establish a perimeter/containment
3. Gather resources/observing situation
4. Plan tactical response
5. Move to end disturbance
6. Establish control
7. Resume normal activities
8. Debrief/paperwork (ick)
9. Go home safely

Thats by the numbers. Sometimes things happen very quickly, and the world goes to crap.

Bear, sometimes you just have to do, what you have to do. Too bad you had to do it alone.

Many sad and good true statements have been posted in this thread.
Hold those you love close to you.

RT1

MacLeod

Wow! I didnt expect this thread to go 4 pages.

First off they did mention how many 911 calls they received - one. They were out there all afternoon and only one person called in. They also had this all on camera and I watched it and can tell you it doesnt take Oscar caliber actors to play 2 rednecks fighting. It was believable. Especially when he was dragging her around by her face!

Just for the record, Im not suggesting you fly in there with a jumping crane kick like youre in The Matrix or something, just step in. Usually it doesnt have to be physical. Anyone scumbag that would beat on a woman is usually a coward and if you were to simply intervene he would probably back off. Im also not saying calling the cops is a bad idea. I was a mall cop and bouncer for years and got to break up a lot of crap like this and not once did it become physical.

If you dont feel you can properly handle the situation or the guy is a 300 pound monster or something then call the cops, there is no shame in that. At least youre doing something, dont just ignore it.

I also dont accept the argument that if you intervene she'll get her **** kicked worse when they get home. If that were the case then you shouldnt call the cops either because if this guy is gonna snap by a citizen stepping in just think how enraged he's going to be if the cops were to get involved.

Bottom line is if its just two rednecks screaming at each other on the porch of their trailer, carry on, that is none of your business and you should do nothing. However if the man is being physically abusive to the woman I think it is your duty to get involved either stepping in or calling the cops if you think it is more of a situation than you can handle.

Glad to have Bear, Jesse and Brett on my side!

Jstas

MacLeod wrote:

Anyone scumbag that would beat on a woman is usually a coward and if you were to simply intervene he would probably back off.

Not true. I used to think that way too until I started running on an abumlance squad and watched this happen. The cops were restraining the guy and had his hands cuffed and leaned over the hood of a car. He saw a female EMT tending to his wife who he just kicked in the face and head with his works boots on. The whole time we are there he is screaming "The lousy **** deserved it!" Once he saw his wife getting care, he started going ape ****, kicked one cop in groin with his heel and head butted the other cop in his left eye with the back of his head, managed to wiggle free, ran over and kicked the female EMT in the head with the heel of his boot. She was out cold. Me and the other EMT running on the truck tackled this guy and pinned him faced first with the pry bar and an axe handle up against the side of the truck and a cop came and busted him over the head with a black-jack 'cause he was still screaming and struggling.

They threw him in the back of the cop car and we had to get two more ambulances out to the scene to tend to the beating victim and the cop whose eyebrow required 9 stiches to sew shut. We had the luxury of tending to the EMT's contunsion on her left temple and the ensuing concussion.

Some "coward" huh? The really sad part that people don't see is that that is more the norm than the exception.

These people are not in thier right mind and you do not have a duty to do anything but call the cops. If you are lax in that duty then shame on you but if you don't step in as a "hero", all I can say is smart move, dude, call the cops.

If you want to be superman, then be my guest. The only thing you are going to get is hurt and on top of that a whole pile of trouble that will follow you for the rest of your life. Especially if you hurt someone else or kill them in your superman portrayal.

I'm not trying to say that people who have done it in the past were stupid nor am I trying to take away from thier efforts. All I'm saying is that putting yourself in danger is not worth the trouble. Often times when teh cops show up to a scene like that, they are there to keep the hero from attacking the abuser because the victim called the cops because the hero was "killing her husband". They show up on scene and all they have to go on is your word against thiers and no witness with a solid story. They have no choice but to arrest the hero because the abuser is pressing charges. The victim though, doesn't press charges against the abuser so he gets off scot free and your **** goes to jail.

It sucks but that is how the system works. It protects the rights of everyone, wether it was right or wrong, it has a duty to remain neutral. If you do step in, you are going to have problems. The cops won't want to arrest you but they will have to because it is not thier choice. That is of course if the cops get there before something awful happens to you. Once the cops show up, they will use whatever force needed to protect you, the victim and even the abuser. The cops can quickly out-number the abuser and if you want to win a fight, no matter how big and bad you think you are, two on one is ALWAYS better odds than one on one. So go ahead, be a hero, you'll be in for a world of hurt not just physically but in every other aspect of your life too. It's just not worth it to cause problems for yourself, especially if odds are the chick goes back to the **** rather than gets the help needed.

dorokusai

Macleod - I thought this was an intelligent discussion, not a role playing effort to pick up team members. Sides? LOL

bikezappa

Times change, People change, People don't care sometimes. That Sucks.

They did a similar test in Boston where an 8 month pregnant women traveled on the MBTA for a day. Only a few people would give her a seat and they were either very old or had other problems. NO HEALTHY MALE or FEMALE would give her a seat. They all looked away or read the paper.

Do you love it?
Do you hate it?
There it is they way you made it.
Go home and watch TV tonight.

Zappa

MacLeod

dorokusai wrote:

Macleod - I thought this was an intelligent discussion, not a role playing effort to pick up team members. Sides? LOL

Im usually outnumbered in these discussions so I love it when I get allies!

John - I agree with you and thats why I said USUALLY theyre cowards. It is true that some of these guys are psychos that will fight with a 2000 pound crocodiles, I just think theyre the minority.

dorokusai

Mac - Oh ok, well I'll line up on Jesse because he's old and creaky.

BIZILL

JSTAS has great points. but the biggest point mentioned in this thread is that whether you choose to intervene or not, the woman will i'm guessing, 95% of the time stay with the abuser or go back to him when the everything settles. then it all happens again.

PolkThug

I took Mac's advice. I saw a couple fighting, then the girl slapped the guy. I walked right up and kicked her in the face so hard she peed her pants. She'll think twice before she partakes in domestic violence again!

BIZILL

PolkThug wrote:

I took Mac's advice. I saw a couple fighting, then the girl slapped the guy. I walked right up and kicked her in the face so hard she peed her pants. She'll think twice before she partakes in domestic violence again!

now that's intervention! :eek:

CrBoy

PolkThug wrote:

I took Mac's advice. I saw a couple fighting, then the girl slapped the guy. I walked right up and kicked her in the face so hard she peed her pants. She'll think twice before she partakes in domestic violence again!

Maybe it was a roundhouse kick in the face Chuck Norris's Style

F1nut

dorokusai wrote:

Mac - Oh ok, well I'll line up on Jesse because he's old and creaky.

Ha! I've got more moves than a red **** monkey, junior.

BIZILL

macleod, you should never be ashamed of being a man. there's always transgender surgery, though i doubt you'd make for a good female.

thassa huge ****!
:eek: :eek:

BIZILL

F1nut wrote:

Ha! I've got more moves than a red **** monkey, junior.

the new geriatric foot-sweep. don't let it sneak up on ya.

BIZILL

all in good humor, fellas...

Tour2ma

F1nut wrote:

Ha! I've got more moves than a red **** monkey, junior.

There's more in addition to the Atomic Headlock?

TroyD

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

I'm waiting for next year's WWF Smackdown

Jesse-mania running WILD!

BDT

shack

TroyD wrote:

I'm waiting for next year's WWF Smackdown

Jesse-mania running WILD!

Ok...but does he have to wear those tights? :eek: ...that image is giving me a headache.

TroyD

I'm just waiting to see if his hair will move.

BDT

W WALDECKER

If a guy is punching a woman in the face it would be an automatic reaction for me to get involved. to what extent would depend on the mans body language and disposition after i confront him.it may not be the best way to handle the situation but if he is punching her in the face someone either needs to try to diffuse the situation and or physicaly stop the attack. let the chips fall where they may, someone needs to stop it ASAP. thanks....WCW III