Whyare there NO discounts allowed on Polk Speakers?

Frank Z

My response was not directed at any one person.

BIZILL

in my preliminary score card, i have tomhayes and jstas as dead even. jstas came on a bit strong, but he has a point. tomhayes is sort of acting as described above. but the children in team sports thing was golden. i dunno. i can't call it. who will emerge the victor here? either way, i love club polk. it is quite entertaining while still being informative.

Frank Z

Jstas wrote:

I have spent time working retail, especially during the holidays. About 5 years worth to be exact. Does that qualify me now? I don't know Polk's exact policy but I can see good reason why they would have unilateral pricing.

Absolutely not. Working the sales floor does not qualify anyone to speak directly to specifics of a manufacturers pricing policies unless that person has been fully educated by the manufacturer and the company that is selling the product. This information may or may not be propietary and therefore not made public. I doubt that is case with anyone here. I've said it before...

I've opened alot of canned vegetables but that doesn't make me a farmer.

MacLeod

Frank Z wrote:

I've opened alot of canned vegetables but that doesn't make me a farmer.

Another great one liner!

Man this thread is a gold mine for sig upgrades!!!

george daniel

I don't have a dog in this fight

tomhayes

First, why is trying to get a better deal make me a whiny prima-donna who feels the world owes him something?

I think that some people in this thread have read my post(s) as written and others have placed a large amount of their psychic energy into creating an "attitude" for me. I have a feeling that some people here have other issues in their lives that cause them to be so reactionary/judgmental/aggressive-childish/asshattish.

My posts have not stated "I want to pay 6 bux for deez sp3akers and you are lame if you ain't gonna do it. You owe it to me, I'm a special person who thinks the world revolves around him and Bose kicks butt anywayz d00d."

All I want to do is TRY to get a small discount. I'd hope anyone here would at least TRY to negotiate a better deal than full M(S)RP on a multi thousand dollar purchase of home electronics. They usually have margins that can allow some discounting. They don't OWE it to you but you should always try. Ask nicely. Be determined. Be courteous.

Secondly:

tomhayes

LiquidSound wrote:

Tweeter has 60 day low price guarantee. If the price drops within 60 days, you'll get the difference. Hell, the first 30 days are automatic, you don't even have to know the price has dropped. The check just shows up. After that, you bring it to their attention and you get the difference.
I'm surprised they didn't tell you about that. That salesman needs more training.

I bought them tonight from Tweeter. The salesman (a very nic guy) said they were having a sale on the 12th of November and that if I came into the store with my reciepts that they will do a price adjustment for me.

He also said there is a 60 day price guarantee and a 30 day return window with no restocking fee.

tomhayes

shack wrote:

UH....yes...IT IS. By definition "Breach of Contract" is a LEGAL concept in which a binding agreement or bargained-for exchange is not honored by one of the parties to the contract by non-performance or interference with the other party's performance.

By definition "illegal" or unlawful, is either prohibited or not authorized by law. In general, conduct is made illegal by statute, rule, or regulation.

Breach of contract is contrary to the legal obligations of a contract and therefore illegal. Not criminal (unless of course there is criminal intent - i.e. to use breach of contact to in essence steal something)....but illegal nonetheless.

If you break a contract the other party can use the LEGAL system to sue you for breach. The remedy for breaching a contract is money damages, specific performance or an injunction. (I'm no lawyer, but thanks Judge Whopner.)

Enforcing a contract is a legal process but violating the terms is not ILLEGAL. Illegal refers to breaking a regulation, a statute or a law.

I think breaching a contract can only be considered illegal if you are doing business with a government who has passed laws making contract breaches with them against the law.

But I know what you mean. Not trying to be too argumentative here. No offense.

ND13

edit

I must rescind my comments, for they were intended for someone that deserved them.

cfrizz

Congrats on your purchase, enjoy. Nice looking system!

PolkThug

Dang it I'm too late, guess I'll have to pass my 30% off coupon on to someone else.

jwienand

Do you think an asshat would keep me warm? It gets pretty cold here around January.

jdhdiggs

I think Tom Hayes has handled himself marvelously- Stick around!

Very entertaining thread, thanks!

BlueMDPicker

jdhdiggs wrote:

I think Tom Hayes has handled himself marvelously- Stick around!

Very entertaining thread, thanks!

Indeed!
+1

shack

tomhayes wrote:

If you break a contract the other party can use the LEGAL system to sue you for breach. The remedy for breaching a contract is money damages, specific performance or an injunction. (I'm no lawyer, but thanks Judge Whopner.)

Enforcing a contract is a legal process but violating the terms is not ILLEGAL. Illegal refers to breaking a regulation, a statute or a law.

I think breaching a contract can only be considered illegal if you are doing business with a government who has passed laws making contract breaches with them against the law.

But I know what you mean. Not trying to be too argumentative here. No offense.

The key phrase here from you is "I think". The fact is even though I was confident in what I said, I asked two attorneys who deal with this area of the law and both had the same response (paraphrased) "it's not criminal, but it is illegal based on strict definition". A breach of contract is a Civil Wrong as outlined in various statutes and regulations...ie: Illegal. Violation of Civil Law is every bit as illegal as violation of criminal law. It is a common misconception that in order for something to be illegal it must be criminal.

Good decision on the LSis. I hope you enjoy them.

fireshoes

Congrats on the new speaks man. What gear do you have pushing them? Anything you can do to get the right speaker out of that corner will probably help a lot. I know it's easier said than done. Maybe a bigger stand for the tv so you can off the audio rack and create more space? Again, congrats and enjoy!

ninerbj

I think Tom Hayes has handled himself marvelously as well. He is a way better man than I could have been in this situation!
Just when I thought things had "calmed" around here with the departure of a few "senior" newbie bashers, this thread comes along and the name calling and "belittling" starts all over again.

Frank...thanks for your upstanding advice and calling a spade a spade. Most important, thanks to Tomhays for hanging in there where most people would have went with some other brand where it's "representatives" didn't leave such a piss poor taste in his mouth.

peace out,
brad

tomhayes

fireshoes wrote:

Congrats on the new speaks man. What gear do you have pushing them? Anything you can do to get the right speaker out of that corner will probably help a lot. I know it's easier said than done. Maybe a bigger stand for the tv so you can off the audio rack and create more space? Again, congrats and enjoy!

My room is SMALL so everything is near a corner. The speakers are actaully centered in the room around the tv which is dead center. My room is something like 13x10 so everything is close.

My gear is (from the picture) :
Stereo rack on the left:
Xbox with Xbox Media Center conencted to media server via wireless
Pioneer 47Ai universal player(SACD/DVD-A/DVD/CD)
NAD Cd changer (I forget the model btu it sounds way better than my Pioneer on CDs)
Harman Kardon Signature Series 2.0 Preamp (http://www.audioreview.com/cat/amplification/a-v-preamplifier/harman-kardon/PRD_118281_2719crx.aspx)
Harman Kardon Signature Series 2.1 Power Amp (150W at 4ohm)(http://www.audioreview.com/cat/amplification/amplifiers/harman-kardon/PRD_115826_1583crx.aspx)

The speakers:
LSi15s (L and R)
LSiC (Center)
LSi7 (LR and RR)

The Tv Rack:
Sony XBR36400 36" HDTV
Cox HD DVR
Cyberhome DVD-recorder (for archiving shows)
JVC SVHS VCR

My cables are largeley RCA brand cables that they made fro Monster but sold as RCA at parts express.
The speaker wire is some 10 gauge stuff I bought at Frys five years ago. I'll be buying new cable today.


I think I need a sub

nadams

Judge Wapner was awesome.... My gram used to watch People's Court all the time. I miss the Judge.. he was so much better than any of the crap they have these days. I see (according to IMDB) that he's going to be in a movie that's filming right now... interesting. I though he'd be dead by now.

ohskigod

tomhayes wrote:

First, it would not be illegal. It would be a breach of contract but not against the law.

uh.....Tom......breach of contract is against the law, particularly (surprise surprise) CONTRACT LAW.

breach of contract = you can be sued, which to a large retailer, is more frightening than any criminal law.

ohskigod

ooops, missed a bunch of posts nevermind

heiney9

I agree that the orignal poster has a right to ask the question. Many times, not just in this instance, I feel there is a fine line between price fixing and protecting the companies interest. In this case it mostly has to do with protecting other dealer's in the market. It also has to do with the retailer feeling he doesn't need to discount the price to sell them and places the blame on Polk. As a small discount 5% upto 10% is reasonable.

Certainly the understood agreement is not to blow anything in the POLK line out, which could, if done consistently, have a very adverse affect on other local dealers. When I sold audio a long time ago we had similiar situations. We were a local hi-end dealer and couldn't compete with a couple higher volume stores (out of town) on POLK and ADCOM products. I asked the Adcom rep one time and he said that they dis-like heavy discounting, but since the volume of the store that did the discounting was much higher than ours he said their was very little he could do. This was before the advent of big box retailers, so I can imagine it's even worse now for the small shops.

Another story maybe off topic....about grey market items. For some reason in the late 80's early 90's alot of Polk products were available from the back of Stereo Review & Hi-Fidelity magazines and in essence were companies that bought product from an authorized dealer and then sold it to the general public. Store A (authorized dealer) would sell to store B (unauthorized) at 15 % above cost. Store B would advertise Polk products another 10-15% above his price. Store B's price was still much less than retail. The Polk rep at the time told me they were on a 'witch-hunt' to find the dealer (s) doing this. They had an idea of who it might be but needed evidence. So during manufacturing they glued paper messages inside the speaker cabinets which would identify which suspected dealer the speakers came from. They waited awhile and then bought large quatities of speakers from the "grey" market dealer and opened up the speakers and caught atleast 2 dealers selling POLK on the grey market. Needless to say the lines were pulled immediately from the guilty dealers.

So what I'm saying is Polk protects their dealer network very well and uniform pricing is one tool to do so.

H9

beardog03

as a wise man once said..

"Poo Nuggets"..!!!





and you can quote me on that..!








outstanding speaker set up Tom..

Enjoy !

If your looking for a sub....www.svsubwoofers.com

I have the Pc-Ultra
outstanding Sub...IMHO

organ

Congrats the new speakes. Hope you enjoy your LSi's as much as we do.

Now about discounts....

If you're not getting a good enough discount, you haven't found a good dealer. Going to a small private shop will usually give you great prices.

The LSi9 retails for $1500 here in Canada. I paid $1150.

My PSW650 retails for $1200. I paid $750.

It's up to the dealer how much discount they want to give. But they still have to make a profit.

Maurice

heiney9

shack wrote:

UH....yes...IT IS. By definition "Breach of Contract" is a LEGAL concept in which a binding agreement or bargained-for exchange is not honored by one of the parties to the contract by non-performance or interference with the other party's performance.

By definition "illegal" or unlawful, is either prohibitted or not authorized by law. In general, conduct is made illegal by statute, rule, or regulation.

Breach of contract is contrary to the leagal obligations of a contract and therefore illegal. Not criminal (unless of course there is criminal intent - ie to use breach of contact to in essence steal something)....but illegal nonetheless.

Ah, but a written contract comes very close to price fixing in it's purest sense. It's been a long time since I've been in the retail selling arena and much has changed (and stayed the same ). But manufacturers do have MRP and if you don't follow the recommendations you will loose the line or fall in disfavor of the manufacturer and will get the cold shoulder. Then shipments get reallocated, reps are hard to get ahold of, net discounts disappear and finally you no longer are authorized to carry the line. Come on people, this is how it works and has always worked. Just keep looking around until you get whatever discount you think is fair. You may find it, you may not. It's absolutely no reflection on POLK or the quality of its product. A premium brand/line carries a premium price, that's how it works.

Also don't forget sales BS too. I worked at 2 different stores 1 I had the power to discount on my own, the other I didn't, but knew who did (manager).

As a side note: when I sold audio I never discounted unless I was sure I could close the deal on the spot. Meaning if I got the idea you were stroking me, no discounted price. Not saying this happened with you, but it does happen

Happy hunting .

H9

tomhayes

beardog03 wrote:

If your looking for a sub....www.svsubwoofers.com

I bought a small Velodyne:

Velodyne SPL1000 II Cherry 10 Inch Powered Subwoofer for $699
http://www.onecall.com/ProductDetails.aspx?sHist=19-1%24spl1000%2c19-1%24ii%2c6-38&showAdvanced=true&id=21036&tab=2

They have the maple for $599.

The SVS seemed big, I've heard the 8" Velodyne and it was on sale.

-Tom

tomhayes

heiney9 wrote:

As a side note: when I sold audio I never discounted unless I was sure I could close the deal on the spot. Meaning if I got the idea you were stroking me, no discounted price. Not saying this happened with you, but it does happen

I always say "If I buy these right now what kind of disocunt can I get." If they have to talk to their boss I say "Tell them I am ready to buy it right now" and I take my wallet out of my pocket.

I am direct as possible.

heiney9

tomhayes wrote:

I always say "If I buy these right now what kind of disocunt can I get." If they have to talk to their boss I say "Tell them I am ready to buy it right now" and I take my wallet out of my pocket.

I am direct as possible.

That's the best way to be and I'm sure the sales person appreciated it. I always ask for a discount, no harm in that. Now that I'm up to speed.....Congrats on a great pair of speaks. After they break in and you've spent some time with them give us your impressions.

H9

F1nut

There's nothing wrong with asking for a discount, but if you don't get one don't come on here crying like a spoiled child about it. I think your first post amounted to nothing more than trolling, shame on you.

tomhayes

F1nut wrote:

There's nothing wrong with asking for a discount, but if you don't get one don't come on here crying like a spoiled child about it. I think your first post amounted to nothing more than trolling, shame on you.

I disagree.

I do not like the policy that Polk has in place with it's dealers to fix prices at at the same level across all dealers. I think it is anti-consumer.

I never said it was illegal, immoral or capable of making a hat with hemorrhoidal material. I di not called Polk poopy faces or claim they were spreading cooties to me.

Let's repost my initial comment here:

tomhayes wrote:

I'd like to buy a pair of LSi15s but I do not want to pay the full retail price.

Why does Polk not allow their dealers to bargin with me?

I undertand minimum advertised pricing. I understand grey market.

What I don't understand is if the delaer buys the speaker from Polk for $1100 dollars and the dealer feels he can sell them to me for $1450 why Polk will not allow him to. (I'm using him becuase its a sauge fest at audio dealerships.)

Tweeter has told me they'd be able to deal a little on Novemeber 12th because Polk will allow them to have a sale that day.

My question is: Why can't I get the sale price now? I have cash in my hot hand and about 20 other brands of speakers that will discount.

Help me understand why an authorized dealer can't sell non b-stock merchandise at 7-12% lower than MRP.

Maybe I was exaggerating about the number of other brands that would discount. I meant to say that there are 20 other speaker manufactores and that as a consumer I may take my business to another vendor.

I still do not understand why dealers have to cede their pricing discretion to Polk. The answer I have got is: becuase.

If a child is told not to do something "Because" and they continue to ask why, a BAD PARENT will immediately blame the child and call them spoiled. This is what you are doing. That makes you the bad parent.

I feel like I'm a hippie at a John Birch BBQ.

I think most reasonable people would not define this first post as "trolling." If you disagree then their is a city full of walls you can post complaints at. Oh, and here.

I have accepted your feedback and to sum it up:Asking why prices are artificially set in stone makes me a spoiled child who feels entitled to special treatments. I disagree with you.

P.S. Keep your shame for your bathroom visits.

Done.