Building the ultimate polk based center

HUNTER
HUNTER Posts: 78
edited February 28 in Clubhouse Archives
I am in the design stages of building a polk based center channel speaker to match my rt3000p.

Parts and materials to be used:
2 8" Rt3000p sub woofers
2 6.5" Rt3000p sat midrange
1 vifa ring dome tweeter
Rt 3000p crossover
250 watt amp
box
2 1/4" front baffle MDF
1 1/2 sides and rear MDF
3/4" partitions

Based on the rt3000p speaker I will use the box parameters and porting to build the center channel.

The reason that I don't just use a cs1000p is because I can build a stronger performer with regards to bass output for the same price.

I decided to go with the ring tweeter because I am changing the existing tri-lams of the rt3000ps with ring tweeters.

I would appreciate any constructive input that anyone might have that will make this design better.

Thanks
Post edited by RyanC_Masimo on
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  • mantis
    mantis Posts: 17,200
    edited April 2002
    I'm curious,The ring tweeter upgrade, do you find that tweeter better than the tri lam and why???
    Dan
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
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  • HUNTER
    HUNTER Posts: 78
    edited April 2002
    Mantis,
    I have been through several models of polk towers: r40, rt800i, rt3000p. The r40s had the most non-fatiguing sound of all. The tri-lams seem a little harsh and in your face at times. I chose the ring dome because of the smooth, wide axis response and the natural sound.
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  • mantis
    mantis Posts: 17,200
    edited April 2002
    I have found that the older tri lam tweeter is harsh.I rebuilt my rt1000p's and bought the rt1000i crossover and the new tri lam tweeter.I made a ton of difference, even right out of the box.I let the speaker's play all day long,and found them to smooth out.I run 2 different amp's on my 1000p's.I use a B&K st140 and for theater I use the Denon avr3801.They both sound different.The Denon is warm and soft.The B&K is powerfull and clean,but still warm in it's own right.
    I was wondering what amp you use.The ring tweeter will need a crossover change.how are you going to overcome the crossover, or are you going to try the factory rt3000p's crossover.
    I'm very curious on your outcome.
    Dan
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
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  • HUNTER
    HUNTER Posts: 78
    edited April 2002
    Mantis,
    I also have the 3801. I really like the natural sound of the r40s tweeter but wanted a better mid/bass response so I went to the rt800i. The 800 gave me the better mid/bass I was looking for but they seemed a little harse in the higher freq (new tri-lam). I ran into a great deal on the RT3000ps (old tri-lam)but the highs are even harsher than the 800.
    I will use the same crossover, I don't think it will be a problem.
    The spl of the vifa is 91.5 db 1w/1m which is real close to the 92 db that the 3000 drivers have . The 3000 is crossed at 2.5Khz, since I can't get the Fs of the Tri-lam I have to take a shot in the dark and hope that the frequency response of the vifa @ 1.5 to 40 will work.
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  • joe logston
    joe logston Posts: 882
    edited April 2002
    hunter& mantis this is a good post, where would you get the ring tweeters that would match the crossrovers that are in a rt-7 & cs-400i and rt-20p towers, i was thinking of geting the lsi line of polks but the price. it would be more affordable to change the tweeters in my speakers instead

    thanks
    . rt-7 mains
    rt-20p surounds
    cs-400i front center
    cs-350 ls rear center
    2 energy take 5, efects
    2- psw-650 , subs
    1- 15" audiosource sub

    lets all go to the next ces.
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  • HUNTER
    HUNTER Posts: 78
    edited April 2002
    Hey Joe,
    I got mine from partsexpress.com for 60.00
    These will not fit the speakers right off. I am going to fabricate a mounting plate to fit in the bezzel so I don't have to permanently alter the boxes or the bezzel.
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  • mantis
    mantis Posts: 17,200
    edited April 2002
    Wow I didn't think of that, if they would fit or not.hmmmm they are small or larger?Or is it the bolt holes don't line up?
    What are you going to make the face plate out of,plastic,fiberglass,wood???this will change everything you know.
    Does your rt3000p's have that valvin material on the front or are they newer with out, just a black plastic front???
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
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  • HUNTER
    HUNTER Posts: 78
    edited April 2002
    Mantis,
    I don't know what you mean about "Valvin" material. The existing tri-lam tweeter in mounted in the bezzel via a plastic snap in flange. I will fabricate a flange of 1/8" plastic probably using an injection mold so that the new ring tweeter will mount to that plate and then snap into the bezzel. The box cut-out ,width wise, is perfect but the depth is a little shallow for the new tweeter. I will probably have to mount it from the outside of the bezzel in instead of having it mount from inside out. I will not permanently alter these speakers due to resale and warranty issues.
    The end product of the tweeter upgrade will look professional and at anytime in the future I could pop out the new and reinstall the old.
    What Valvin material are you speaking of?
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  • RuSsMaN
    RuSsMaN Posts: 17,987
    edited April 2002
    Ok, I haven't seen much of you (hunter) since your rt800/3000 network extravaganza, but a custom injection molded bezel?

    Please post some pics, no offense intended, but I need to see this to believe it.....

    Cheers,
    Russ

    ps, and don't the r40's sport a .75 inch soft (black) dome....I take it you are referring to the vifa ring radiator found in the new Lsi line.....
    Check your lips at the door woman. Shake your hips like battleships. Yeah, all the white girls trip when I sing at Sunday service.
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  • HUNTER
    HUNTER Posts: 78
    edited April 2002
    So Russ we speak again,

    Since you are still sporting the sarcasm I will return in kind.
    The rt3000p crossover upgrade to the rt800i speaker worked like a champ, Thank you very much. I spoke to ken at support at length over that subject and he didn't express any reason why that upgrade would not work, in fact he said that this kind of thought was how polk started.
    Yes, Russ if you go back and read very slowly you will see that I stated that I am talking about replacing the tri-lam with the vifa ring dome tweeter not the 3/4" silk dome tweeter, the others got that, go back and read real slow.
    As for your accusation that I could not possibly have the ability to fabricate an injection molded peice for this tweeter by stating that you would need pictures to beleive it, well bro your out of your league I could fabricate a hat to fit that big head of yours.
    If you think that I discuss these topics because I am bored your wrong. I am looking for constructive advise and should I come across a tweak that makes this great product better then we all benefit. If it doesn't work then I will advise as such, but since I have the money to burn to test my thesis and in the process save others from wasting money that they don't have then wheres the harm.
    If you could comprehend what you read, I stated that I was interested in constructive advise, since you can't seem to provide this then just find another way to increase your rating. Once this work is complete I will post pictures. I am going to make up a few extra of these so called fabricated peices in case anyone else is interested, free of charge, but since you are so against any modifications as voiced in your posts in my other thread I'm sure you wouldn't need one.
    Don't bother to try to stifle me with you negitivity anymore I am beyond it!
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  • mantis
    mantis Posts: 17,200
    edited April 2002
    Russman...BACK OFF OK!!!
    The guy is trying to make his gear sound better than it does now.Why wouldn't you support him.Maybe he has access to plastic molding.Why wouldn't you believe him????I do untill he prove's me wrong!!!!I think this is a cool post and/upgrade.I was once unhappy with my Rt1000p's and I upgraded the tweeter and crossover to rt1000i's.They sound much better.The old tri lam was very harsh and unforgiving.Anything to side step it would be a good thing,not a bad thing.This project has inspired me as Ron's new subwoofer, I love it to death when people try to make what they own sound better.
    I'm not pissed at you, you have a right to your opinion, but don't attack people ok, can't we all just get along(except Dean's love for Klipsch......lol)
    Hunter,
    The Valvin material I talked about is a grey dampening material Polk used on the intire floor standing line line. The rt600, rt800, rt1000p's rt2000p's and the rt3000p's.It cover's only the front of the speaker where the driver's live.

    Polk dropped it because people were having problem's with kid's, cats wrecking it.They stopped using it on the rt600i line and up.But the rt3000p's are still being made, I was wondering if your's are older or newer.I don't know if they still use it on the rt3000p's.It was also on the cs1000p center.Do you know now what I'm talking about???
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
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  • joe logston
    joe logston Posts: 882
    edited April 2002
    im for upgrading the old tri- lam tweeters if the vifa will sound better than the tri-lam i will go for it , the problems will be matching the crossovers, mid-woofer drivers , and mounting them, i want to change the tweeters in, cs-400i, rt-7, and rt-20p,and maybe in the cs-350li i have if this makes a better sounding system, that would be great, this post is a real good post for some people that cant afford to upgrade to the new lsi series.

    thanks
    . rt-7 mains
    rt-20p surounds
    cs-400i front center
    cs-350 ls rear center
    2 energy take 5, efects
    2- psw-650 , subs
    1- 15" audiosource sub

    lets all go to the next ces.
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  • Aaron
    Aaron Posts: 1,853
    edited April 2002
    While I'm sure the Vifa tweeter can easily handle the same frequencies that the tri-lam tweeter is fed, it seems to me that the Vifa tweeter will present a different impedence than the tri-lam. For this reason, shouldn't it completely screw up the crossover network? Won't the crossover have to be redesigned to take into account the different impedence of the new tweeter?

    Aaron
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  • mantis
    mantis Posts: 17,200
    edited April 2002
    good question Aaron,
    I'm waiting on Hunter's result's
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
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  • HUNTER
    HUNTER Posts: 78
    edited April 2002
    Mantis,
    Thanks for the support.

    Aaron,
    The problem with upgrading any proprietary system is the lack of "confidential" data about the existing components. The vifa ring dome tweeter is 4ohm. There is no information currently available for the existing tri-lam, so at this point I cannot address this issue. I am in the process of gathering all information. I may have to do the physical testing on the tri-lam myself in order to determine its parameters. Should this information be contrary to my assumption that these tweeters will be a straight swamp It would only require a minor inline electronic alteration. I have not even received my new tweeters yet, they are in transit. As you know you can't just slap these things together and expect good results. I should have more information regarding the necessary modifications within a few weeks; once the leg work is done and I am confident that the outcome will be fruitfull I will proceed to the physical work. I appreciate the good questions and hope that some arise that I have not thought of. I only ask that if people are interested in this upgrade that they provide input that will help towards the common good.
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  • RuSsMaN
    RuSsMaN Posts: 17,987
    edited April 2002
    Look. I just want to see it to believe it, don't read more into than I posted....

    I just find it amazing that Hunter has come so far, so fast. Just a couple months ago, Hunter thought the RT800's power port was non-functioning, and it was simply an RT55 in a 'big box'. He quickly corrected himself afterwards.

    I mean, to do this 'mod' right, is going to take some time and thought. Hunter, you mentioned the R40 over and over, re-read your own post, and see how it could be interpreted differently. Don't take offense, it is not intended, just expressing my opinion in the opinion forum......

    Please, share more, and get some pics of the process.....and excuse my pissiness, if it came off that way...I was drinking AND paying taxes...

    Cheers,
    Russ
    Check your lips at the door woman. Shake your hips like battleships. Yeah, all the white girls trip when I sing at Sunday service.
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  • HUNTER
    HUNTER Posts: 78
    edited April 2002
    Russ,
    Yes you are right I have come a long way, because I can comprehend what I read.
    I don't think that I am misinterpeting anything. Your commets are sarcastic.
    I didn't hear from anyone else who thought that I was going to attempt to replace the 1" tri-lam with a the 3/4" soft dome tweeter from the r40. I specifically stated Vifa Ring Dome! I merely stated that I liked the sound of the r40 tweeter better than the tri-lam. Wheres the confusion.
    As for your newest sarcastic comment regarding my thought that the power port was none functional on the rt800i, well that is just another instance of you being unable to comprehend what you read. I stated that based on my preliminary, visual and tactile inspection of the speaker " I had my doubts as to whether the power port was functional" and as it turns out, which you must have missed, the speaker that I was testing to try to feel the bass waves coming from the power port on had the ecoustical dampening material cover the separation of the compartments therefore I could not feel the bass wave. Once I removed the driver I found this situation I then stated that my assumptions were incorrect. You attempt to use this manipulated statment to discredit me. You don't need affermation you need to lighten up, mind your own business, and read slower. You have never had anything constructive to add so I won't be answering your replies anymore so don't bother to post to my threads.
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  • mantis
    mantis Posts: 17,200
    edited April 2002
    say your sorry (smack on the hand) and then we now all can get along right??
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
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  • RuSsMaN
    RuSsMaN Posts: 17,987
    edited April 2002
    Whatever you say cocheese, keep it coming, it has HIGH entertainment value...

    I gave you several contructive points on your first 'experiement' with networks. Discredit you? Affirmation? Do you feel you need 'creditdation' here? What would I gain by discrediting you?

    I didn't say anything above that wasn't true, look up the post....

    R
    Check your lips at the door woman. Shake your hips like battleships. Yeah, all the white girls trip when I sing at Sunday service.
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  • mantis
    mantis Posts: 17,200
    edited April 2002
    Russ.....
    are you a angry person??try smiling once in a while:)
    Smiling is not a bad thing...it's a good thing:D
    But you do seem angry and sarcastic.It's all good, some people can take it, and some can't.Hunter is putting alot in is quest, just try not to kick him to hard.
    I want to find out what happen's next, don't you???????
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
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  • RuSsMaN
    RuSsMaN Posts: 17,987
    edited April 2002
    I'm not angry at all, I guess people that don't know me, don't always see the sarcasm as it's intended...lightly... I have missunderstood peoples lighthearted sarcasm towards me also, thats the **** of reading on a forum, vs, speaking in person...

    Maybe I need to start using smilies or some such...

    And yes, I can hardly wait to see this next creation...hopefully we will get a good look...

    Cheers,
    Russ
    Check your lips at the door woman. Shake your hips like battleships. Yeah, all the white girls trip when I sing at Sunday service.
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  • mantis
    mantis Posts: 17,200
    edited April 2002
    I'm glad to hear it Russ:)
    Don't get mad get even...oop's be happy, think happy thought's:cool:
    this is true when you post, I piss many people off in here when I'm only joking around(just ask Dean)
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
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  • HUNTER
    HUNTER Posts: 78
    edited April 2002
    Hey Mantis,
    If you veiwed my rt800i thread that Russman is speaking of you will see that I am willing to put my money where my mouth is and follow thru until the end regardless of the outcome which is more than I can say for some.
    Russman seems to think that I am somehow into the "Creation" of far out experiments like Frankenstein. I'm just talking about changing a tweeter-whoopi-big deal. I'm not trying to reinvent the wheel. I am sure that if I post back and say that this mod won't work that russman will be the first to expose me as a fraud and as well I'm sure that if it does work he will be the first to tell everyone I'm full of ****, whatever.
    If you recall I started this thread asking that members post back with any constructive ideas that they might have. I didn't think that russman would follow me over here to get into a pissing match. I am so done with this guy and all like him. I am not looking for kudos for this experiment I could try it and whether good or bad keep it to my self without having to go through this crap.
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  • mantis
    mantis Posts: 17,200
    edited April 2002
    where is your 800i thead??I must have missed that one.
    As far as Russman goes before I read that post,All I can say is you always have one(or more )in every bunch,it's the way of thing's.Except him for who he is.
    Don't worry about him,forget it.Just keep up the project so wee all can see how you make out.I'm with you on this regardless of what other people say.
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
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  • RuSsMaN
    RuSsMaN Posts: 17,987
    edited April 2002
    800 post

    We started out civil, he actually thanked me for some info at first....then some 'back and forth' stuff went on, similar to this post.....

    an interesting read, regardless....

    Cheers,
    Russ

    Hunter, since I get your **** hairs up, I'll leave your posts be, unless I have some information you might find valuable, and not sarcastic....
    Check your lips at the door woman. Shake your hips like battleships. Yeah, all the white girls trip when I sing at Sunday service.
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  • mantis
    mantis Posts: 17,200
    edited April 2002
    Ok I see your point Russ..........
    I read the entire post.Man I thought I was in need of some help!
    I didn't get the point of the intire post except trying to make the speaker's Polk's engineer's designed...better.
    You see Russ, I don't really get involved with post's like that to often, It normally doesn't go anywhere.I'm also beat in comparing different speaker's in the line, and thinking they are the same speaker and if you add a sub you get the rt3000p's.What ever float's your boat.I say if you want the rt3000p's sound......JUST BUY THEM.
    IF YOU LIKE THE RT800'S COOL IF NOT.....DON'T BUY THEM.
    I personally will say this,I do not like all the speaker's in the current line's,of past as well.I only like few of the model's.For the hell of it I wiil post...rt55i's,rt1000i',rt2000i's and the rt3000p's.
    Thats it for front speaker's.I don't like any other one at all..NO.
    Enough of that.!!!!!!!!!!
    This post is cool, I like the tweeter mod, Polk need's to learn how to make a better tweeter,that my ears can handle.I don't like over bright speaker's.Polk can be overly bright.Don't bother dissagreeing with me, Im not going to get into a pissing match with anyone!!!!Like what you like...I'm cool with it.
    But I hope Hunter make's out good with this tweeter upgrade.I think it could be beneficial to many people.One being me.
    I would like to go one more round with my rt1000p's with upgrade's before I show them the door.
    Thank's for the read Russ as It was a good reminder why I stopped posting in here for a while.
    But you know what though after more thought on it, It's just a bunch of guy's who love this hobbie a ton, don't seem to have alot of money to spend on it.......and want to learn all they can.
    Something like this forum.....it's why I'm back posting so much.
    To all who read this....have fun with your hobbie, it's a great one!!!
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
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  • RuSsMaN
    RuSsMaN Posts: 17,987
    edited April 2002
    I hear ya Dan, sometimes I can, and posts can get out of control. Hunter has done a couple cool mods, I'll be interested to to see how the XT Ring Radiator acts in the RT series.

    I love mods actually, in the past I've gone so far as to buy a pair of Jensen bookshelfs for $20 at best buy, just for the cab's... Dropped better drivers, and a new network.... they weren't half bad for $100~ or so total investement.

    It's got me thinking array, something like an SRT speaker maybe....8, 5.25's and the xt tweet, heck, maybe 16 4 inch drivers and the xt....

    Good to hear your thoughts Dan, stick around this time, I enjoy your posts... Now enough of who knows what, and said what, lets let Hunter get the post back on track, and on with the tweek.....

    Cheers,
    Russ
    Check your lips at the door woman. Shake your hips like battleships. Yeah, all the white girls trip when I sing at Sunday service.
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  • joe logston
    joe logston Posts: 882
    edited April 2002
    hi hunter i did tweeks on ads L-990 towers yrs ago and what i did is mirror emage every thing i could the drivers the wires. try it on your upgrade. here how put all the - post facing to the right on the right speaker and the + post on the left side on the right speaker, and put all the - post on the left side of of the left speaker and put all of the + post to the right side left speaker. do this to all of the drivers. and set your binding post the same way. you want it . wend you look at every thing from the front , all the positives are to the out side of your speakers thats including your binding post. here an example my aragon amp is mirror emage that way all the + are to the out side you want all the negatives to the center. every one should try this on there drivers, it cleans up the sound stage , and get better imaging. and you can make all your inside wires the same lenght in all you speakers, and use the same wire that you use on the out side. and you will have a balance speakers system, then resetup again and listen and hear the differance, for the better.
    . rt-7 mains
    rt-20p surounds
    cs-400i front center
    cs-350 ls rear center
    2 energy take 5, efects
    2- psw-650 , subs
    1- 15" audiosource sub

    lets all go to the next ces.
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  • mantis
    mantis Posts: 17,200
    edited April 2002
    Thats cool,
    I like the idea.
    Joe,
    what kind of upgrade is that.You got better Image?hmmmm.Puzzling......interesting.........curious.......how did you deside on the wiring ???Did the order of your amp inspire you??
    I gotta tell you, I wouldn't of come up with it.What kind of wire did you use inside/outside?
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
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  • HUNTER
    HUNTER Posts: 78
    edited April 2002
    Hey Joe,

    Thanks for the Idea I'm not sure I follow though.
    When you say that you mirror image the speakers that you rotated the drivers on one speaker 180 degrees so that the positives all lined up on the same side, If not how would you accomplish this setup. I don't see how doing something like this would improve the soundstage. I know that when a set of speakers is mirror imaged that the actual drivers are positioned opposite so that they are either inboard or outboard. Please let me know if I am confused or if this is the jist of what you said.
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