Comments on Billy Joel

reeltrouble1

Micah Cohen wrote:

We are talking about rock and roll, right?

MC

Well, no MC I was not really, I was talking about music, I mean what is rock? Pick the color you like, light/happy or dark/mystery, something in between maybe, its all in the mode the band/artist likes to use, I am sensing you dont like the light, not only BJ but most possibly any of them. This comes down to what pleases a particular ear at a moment in time, each mode having its own identifying chord progression and scale within the key scale, does not matter one iota about the music theory though, you either like it of not. Where Joel learned this I haven't a clue but it sure was not Juliard, he quit high school to become a musician, was a boxer, got his nose broke, and so on. Likely his ear is so good he just hears it.

The Bach, well so succinct in its timing, so exacting, if life is out of control nothing like it to reset the order of things. In the end I suppose I do agree that BJ's earlier stuff is what does it for me. However, since I have a personal interest in learning how music gets put together I still feel he ranks as a great writer.

RT1

Spawndn72

We are talking about rock and roll, right?

No we are not, no one has mentioned rock and roll except you. We are talking about Billy Joel.

Since "boring" is, by definition, a subjective word, I think it's obvious that Micah's stating his opinion.

True, but becasue he has posted his opinion more than once it sounds like he is forcing his opinion on everyone else. Micah has a way of making his opinions sound like facts.


As for Billy Joel, I like his music for what it is. To me it is more lounge music than anything else. I listen to him when I want to relax. And for that purpose, his music is some of the best I have heard.

reeltrouble1

Spawndn72 wrote:

Micah has a way of making his opinions sound like facts.

Well, I sure would take him on my debate team.

I believe we are having a nice little thread about Billy Joel who is for the most part in the pop/rock genre, because of the passion we share for music and the audio hobby things can get heated.

Remember as the song goes, A Champ want a challenger who just might bring him down.

Spawn, your point of relaxation, yes, certain music for different moods/times of the day/location/etc. Artists face this challenge, when putting the album together, should the songs be similiar or different, but remember most with true genius are so wrapped with their worlds and selves. (Enter the Labels and out with Artists) So Joel considers this and then say he decides to write with a sameness is it a good thing or bad, pleasing or boring. They try to mix things with ballads to change the pace but this is not the whole answer, his latter works do they meld so well that the result is lounge tunes or for some "boring". I find them musically interesting, MC finds them to be crap, and you relaxing, so there it is. One of the best examples of tunes that work together but are very different are EJ's/Taupin's, GBYBR album, this is what I am talking about. This one does it everytime for me as do many BJ tunes, besides he is a terrific piano player.

RT1

audiobliss

Spawndn72 wrote:

True, but becasue he has posted his opinion more than once it sounds like he is forcing his opinion on everyone else. Micah has a way of making his opinions sound like facts.

Ahh, thanks for saying what I was having difficulty putting into words. It's just the way Micah presents his opinions that so makes them look like facts that gets me onto that tirade. I'll try to remember that we all know he's just stating his opinion next time.

ND13

Bliss,

What did you expect from MC when you started this thread? Did you think that since he hasn't been around for a while, that you could slip it past him . He's rained on your parade how many times now???? I believe about every thread you've started about musicians, right? Just remember that the next time you start a thread about a musician, movie, or music if you don't want his "opinions" to get your undies in a wad.

I think MC has an alarm or something that alerts him when anyone at CP starts a thread about anything in the entertainment field

audiobliss

^ hehe

*sigh*

Oh well.




It's all good.

sda2mike

i bought my wife 2 billy joel cd's.....glass houses & the stranger(?)....she put them in my sony 300 disc player....i find myself hitting the shuffle button when one of his tunes comes on....i'll take his very early stuff....capt jack...when he was hungry and not afraid to be tough....now, i think he's trying too hard to develop his ray charles influence...he winds up sounding very affected...to me - nowadays - he sucks

AsSiMiLaTeD

I don't like Billy Joel. He's a good musician and songwriter, but I just don't like his music.

RT1,

Regarding Piano Man, I don't have the sheet music or song available, but isn't this song in C major? If so, the Ionian mode of that is about as easy as it gets, and you don't even really have to work that in, that just kinda works itself in with the chord progression. As for the relative minor, if we're in C major, we're talking about A minor, about as common a key as you find. As for the 'harmonic scale', I assume you're talking the harmonic minor of A. I assume this is again achieved through the chord progression, but it's been like ten years since I've heard that song.

I'd call some of his music more advanced than average, but nothing supernatural or anything along those lines...

reeltrouble1

Polkmaniac wrote:

RT1,

Regarding Piano Man, I don't have the sheet music or song available, but isn't this song in C major?
I'd call some of his music more advanced than average, but nothing supernatural or anything along those lines...

Yes, PM you are correct Ionian C is the parent key, I did not want to get deep into theory cuz I thought it might just be a bunch of mumbo jumbo to those not interested. However, that is my point, as I said he took the base of the Ionian, C, the Polly Wally Doodle, Twinkle Twinkle Little Star key and wrote this song that is much more. He utilizes the circle of fifths to move to G, then the minor of that circle Em, back to the relative minor, while maintaing the parent key C he moves to the phrygian and mixolydian scale he moves the harmonics tones within these modes up and down along with dropping bass line notes with alot of octave tones. There is some augmenting of the of the G seventh chord along with moving the seventh to a true major to resolve back. Yes, the basic I-IV-V7 Ionic pattern is there but this is not a three chord 70's tune. Simple in its genius, yet creating a meanigful song with solid lyrical hooks that has sold a bunch of copies using the major mode. Agree it is not the most complex of music and their are other writers who are as capable but I still feel its pretty good stuff and has passed the test of "rock time". Its not like classical where it actually took seperate movements for the masters to express themselves and cover all the progessions within a scale.

sorry if I "bored" someone with this, but its a bit of the music geek in me!!

RT1

W WALDECKER

Billy Joel is a great entertainer and a good musician and i think his biggest strength lies in his songwriting skills.i am not a fan of his style of music but i think you have to give credit where credit is due. the man is a gifted artist and the way he writes songs i can visualize what he is singing about. there are a lot of songwriters that cant make that kind of connection with thier audience. i would have to say without being a big fan of his that he is extremely talented.

ND13

:rolleyes: Gotta love a 3 page thread on the virtues of Billy Joel and whether or not he has talent.
It's pretty damn obvious that the man has talent, whether you like his music or not.
I have to say that I enjoy his early music, as it has it's place, but as soon as that "WE DIDN'T START THE FIRE" crap came out, it was all down hill

Micah Cohen

Hey, wait a sec. My opinions ARE facts. You think I'm just saying this stuff to hear myself chit chat?

Listen, Billy Joel is great, man. If all it takes is one little thing, one fluke a la STAR WARS, to make someone a genius, I'd vote Billy Joel into the Genius Club merely for "Captain Jack." It's brilliant, outrageous and totally evil. "Captain Jack" is great. FACT.

"James" is not great. It's crappy. It's lame. Everything after 1980 is worse than subpar, it's music for dentists' offices. I mean, it's a FACT that you hear lame Billy Joel songs played over the music system in the dentist's office. How can you have a CD like "The Stranger" blasting in your car and be cool about it when it makes your car a rolling dentist's waiting room? It's a FACT that "The Stranger" has no BITE.

Look, all I'm saying is, don't be satisfied with what you think passes for good. Reach deep down, hunt down a CD of "Songs In The Attic," it's a Sony Value Buy and it's probably all of $6, and then experience the real kernel of greatness that is Billy Joel, and you might re-evaluate the Billy Joel you thought was so good... But find now, post-listening to "SITA," that it lacks bite. It's boring. That's a FACT!

And I promise that after that, you will like Billy Joel even more for the great stuff he really did do, than the lame stuff you think is good which shows his talent to be waning.

FACT! I just can't let you get off easy.



MC

Micah Cohen

Wait wait! I just thought of this. This is why I do this:

Not because I think your liking Billy Joel is bad. You have to live with that your own self. But because I want you to like Billy Joel for the stuff that is WORTHY of your like. "The Stranger" is not worthy. How do I know? Because I know "Songs In The Attic," which makes "The Stranger" look like a Michael Bolton or Kenny G album.

THAT is my purpose here. Not to convince you that Billy Joel is bad. Only to direct your attention away from the bad Billy Joel that you seem to like and toward the really GREAT Billy Joel that will make you an even bigger Billy Joel fan!

YES! I have your best interests at heart.

FACT!

MC

Micah Cohen

I like "white wedding"

Dat's funny.

MC

audiobliss

Micah Cohen wrote:

Hey, wait a sec. My opinions ARE facts.

Ah-ha! I knew he was pushing this stuff off as 'fact'!!

Micah Cohen wrote:

I mean, it's a FACT that you hear lame Billy Joel songs played over the music system in the dentist's office.

Hmm. I usually like the music I hear in my dentist's waiting room.

Micah Cohen wrote:

It's a FACT that "The Stranger" has no BITE.

Whether or not it has 'BITE' depends on what you like, again reducing all this to subjective, mushy-gushy opinions.

Micah Cohen wrote:

Look, all I'm saying is, don't be satisfied with what you think passes for good.

That's why I've spent a little over $200 on new CDs in the last two maybe three months.

Micah Cohen wrote:

Reach deep down, hunt down a CD of "Songs In The Attic," it's a Sony Value Buy and it's probably all of $6, and then experience the real kernel of greatness that is Billy Joel, and you might re-evaluate the Billy Joel you thought was so good... But find now, post-listening to "SITA," that it lacks bite. It's boring. That's a FACT!

I'll look for it. And I might re-evaluate my opinions of him. However, I might still feel the same. And I suspect I will, as I'm quite strongly drawn to a lot of his work you're dissing. Just hearing some of his better stuff isn't going to change that.

Micah Cohen wrote:

FACT! I just can't let you get off easy.

AMEN! and you can say that again! lol I'm enjoyin' it! I've missed your arrogant self!


:cool:
audiobliss

audiobliss

Man. If you're telling me the song "The Stranger" is no good....you can just quite reaching out to me right now!

That's an awesome song!!


audiobliss

Micah Cohen

Okay, I'll give a little. "The Stranger" is not a bad song. A tinge of real feeling there. But the LP itself is tepid. Five of the nine songs are unlistenable, except in dentists' offices. Except as insomnia cures.

Whereas "Songs In The Attic" is stellar thruout. Even the "slow" songs on "SITA" are performed with such bite and umph that they become magical and you even forget that they are "slow songs." Of course, then the kick **** band (Liberty!) comes back and smothers you in hot grooves.

You WILL re-evaluate your opinion of Billy Joel, especially having gone all this time, having become a fan without even hearing the really good stuff! (How'd you do that?)

My opinFACTS are not "mushy-gushy." But "mushy-gushy" definitely describes Billy Joel's post 1980 output!

MC

Cyclesberuff

Billy Joel? My RTi12's would get up and run away if I played that.....oh my gosh Billy Joel? Sorry if I upset anyone...but I my God, Billy Joel

OK I'm ready to get cyber slammed now

audiobliss

Cyclesberuff wrote:

OK I'm ready to get cyber slammed now

*BOOM*

pmckeealaska

My biggest problem with him is that he hasnt put out an album of original music in what....10 years?? Wasnt his last album the one with "Baby Grand" on it??

Cyclesberuff

audiobliss wrote:

*BOOM*

Now is that a collective Boom from everyone else or am I going to get bombarded from 50 other people?

audiobliss

I'm not sure. For a while I thought the majority liked him. Now it seems I'm the only one who likes him.

If someone else likes him, my 'BOOM' wasn't for you, too! It was just from me! So, bombard him again!!

TroyD

IMO, SITA was a second chance to release good material that had been previously released but recorded poorly. Listen to the two versions of Say Goodbye to Hollywood, the live version is SUPERIOR. BJ is another artist whose early material suffered from poor recording. Give the devil his due, I saw him in the late 80's and he puts on a HELL of a show.

It's an oft told story. Young guy grows up poor or what have you and writes good material drawing on his experiences. Now, after you've made a gazillion bucks, what are your experiences and do they have any credibility? After 1980, Billy Joel was not a young, struggling entertainer. He was a super rich guy. Super rich guys live in a different world than the rest of us, they have ski chalets and **** which need nifty cool audio systems.

Bruce Springsteen is another example. Like him or not, he was a fantastic song writer 30 years ago. He grew up poor in Jersey. He had credibility. Now? It's kinda hard for a guy who owns half of Jersey to write about the plight of the common man. Know what I'm saying?

BDT

Micah Cohen

they have ski chalets

I hear ya.

Springsteen is another one, true. Hasn't made an LP worth hearing since 1978. And he is entitled to membership in The Genius Club if only for the song "She's The One." But now, how can you not be bored to tears by his whole pretentious "schtick"? The guy is a billionaire. He's not the same guy who was hungry enough to push the bounds with "Kitty's Back," or even the tremendous "Thunder Road."

Now, there's no spark. No bite. It's all one "tribute" or "charity" show after another. Don't we get tired of this? Don't we see that we're being taken advantage of?

Oh well. Ski chalets... Hee hee.

MC

Cyclesberuff

LOL Audio I'll keep my helmet on

audiobliss

^ not a bad idea...never can be sure around this place...

VR3

Micah...

Your so cool. Can't stand Billy Joel either.

TroyD

I'll actually give Springsteen a LITTLE more latitude. The River has some good material, IMO it didn't NEED to be a double album.

All the 'tributes' and 'charity' schtick, that's just to assuage thier guilt over being artistically bankrupt, super rich guys that own ski chalets.

BDT

Micah Cohen

But see, I don't want you to hate Billy Joel. I want you to like him. But like him for cool stuff, not for crappy stuff. "Songs In The Attic" flat out rocks. It's everything Billy Joel should be. It's worth liking. Even more: it's worth blasting in your car. Nothing to be ashamed of. Even if Christy Brinkley is in the red Ferrari stopped next to you at the light... Wasn't that a movie scene?

"Wow dad, we must have gone like 50 yards!"
"Nothing to be proud of, Russ..."

MC

VR3

The songs I heard reminded me to much of country music... that "sad" guitar in the background with a guy that is singing because he got paid to and isnt putting half of his soul into the music. The music just sounded whiney to me...

Hate that stuff... lol