Should they rebuild New Orleans where it is?

MacLeod

What week? You cant count from the time the hurricane first hit. Nobody realized, even in many parts of New Orleans, how bad the damage was til Tuesday evening/Wednesday morning and help was arriving in large numbers by Thursday! Thats less than 2 days! 2 days to mobilize the National Guard and FEMA and then have them drive the 14 hour trip in 2 days is not bad response time at all. You can only measure response time from the time it was realized there needed to be a response, which as far as what Ive seen and read was Wednesday.

I agree that we should learn from this and use that knowledge to make our system more effeceint but blaming somebody or group of people for not responding fast enough to something that has never happened and that NOBODY expected is wrong. I mean I didnt even know there was a hurrican about to hit LA til it was close to making landfall. If everybody knew it would cause this much devestation why wouldnt it plastered all over the news?

brettw22

They 'realized' that there was going to be a problem when they told everyone to get the hell out of town on Thursday/Friday before the weekend. They were on the news saying "you have less than 36 hours to get out" before the inevitable would be upon them. The flooding didn't just 'happen' Tuesday evening......parts of that city were already flooded from the hurricane......then of course was complicated by the Levee system failing.

Heaven forbid we actually PROACTIVELY get supplies and food mobilized to eliminate the ramp up time involved in getting this type of process moving.

Again, if you think they don't have a right to ****, go down there and hang out with them for a while and see if your song changes.

MacLeod

They evacuate for every hurricane regardless where it hits. That was nothing special. They knew it was going to be a bad storm. They never thought it would wipe out their levees and submerge the entire city. If they did, ya think they wouldve said something to that effect.

When everything was flooding they were figuring it was from simple storm surge and would eventually receed. They had no idea the levees had broken. Trust me on this. I drive a truck for a living and all I have to listen to is the radio and the storm coverage was all that was on.

And no, I dont think the media and politicians have a right to **** and going down and hanging out with them wont matter. And there were rescue workers on the scene and working the morning after but due to the lawlessness and looting and muggings and shootings a lot of them were able to run only in the daytime and some were outright called off.

brettw22

I guess I don't understand your problem......if you just don't like hearing about all the **** they're going through, turn off the news and quit responding to this thread.

George Grand

We've had 4 years to put together a credible, national emergency response thing. There was advance notice that it would be bad. It swerved at the last minute and could have been MUCH WORSE. Again, the bad guys are not going to give two days notice.

Don't ask me what the **** I would've done differently. I'm a boom operator, trained to respond to boom operator emergencies. I am not a FEMA guy with an unlimited budget (If it's not whose fault is THAT?) and I would hope one helluva imagination.

So I'm supposed to feel like we are more secure today than 4 years ago? Somebody has been dicking off and partying with the funds, and it hasn't been me.

George Grand (of the Jersey Grands)

amulford

George Grand wrote:

We've had 4 years to put together a credible, national emergency response thing. There was advance notice that it would be bad. It swerved at the last minute and could have been MUCH WORSE. Again, the bad guys are not going to give two days notice.

Don't ask me what the **** I would've done differently. I'm a boom operator, trained to respond to boom operator emergencies. I am not a FEMA guy with an unlimited budget (If it's not whose fault is THAT?) and I would hope one helluva imagination.

So I'm supposed to feel like we are more secure today than 4 years ago? Somebody has been dicking off and partying with the funds, and it hasn't been me.

George Grand (of the Jersey Grands)

That's my whole problem. How much has gone into the coffers for Homeland security? And don't give me the horseshit it has nothing to do with this. Disaster response, be it natural or man made disaster, is disaster response. They are SUPPOSED to have been studied and planned for "situations". WTF is (NOT) gonna happen if something even bigger goes down?

Yes it is security. NO was not "secured". PERIOD.

Huge failure, on lots of levels. Shame Joe nobody has to take it in the nuts, but thats the way it is...

MacLeod

There are definitely things we can learn from this and do differntly to be prepared next time. Im just of the belief that sometimes **** happens and it isnt anybody's fault.

Now if its shown that somebody was derelict then they should be hung out by their toes but I dont think thats the case.

The media is salivating over this and keeping it going because controversy mean ratings. Eventually, helicopter pictures of the devestation will get old so they need a new angle and conjuring up all this anger at trying to find a skape goat is giving them something else to report.

And politicians are grateful for any opportunity to get some camera time and these days it seems all Congress is good for is finding out whos responsible everytime somebody stubs their toe.

exalted512

hind sight is always 20/20
-Cody

George Grand

It seems the head of FEMA has no freakin' credentials in the security business whatsoever. His last job before this was the ringmaster of a horse club, and he was asked to resign from THAT! Soooooo, seeing how this was a political appointment, I know who to thank, and it wasn't the guy getting the ****.

Yes, we certainly are serious about H-land Security. I gotta go clear some brush, this has taken up far too much of my time as it is.

George Grand (of the Jersey Grands)

shack

The blame game is a funny game. I have yet to hear anyone at any level say "You know what I **** up. I wasn't ready. I could have done more, I could have done something different". It seems like everybody thinks "someone else" could have done more. The truth of the matter is most everyone in positions of responsibility could have done more....before and after. From the lowest parish president all the way to President Bush and everyone in between. And that includes the Mayor, Govenor, Congressmen, Senators, State representatives, FEMA, National Guard, etc...etc...etc...There even has to be some personal responsibility from those who chose to stay. I understand that it was impossible for some to leave for various reasons...but every single individual who made the decision to stay when they could have left added to the problem. I am amazed there are people who are still unwilling to leave. I heard a rescurer talk about how they spent valuable time and risk getting to people who when given the opportunity refused to be rescued.

Screw politics, posturing and all the rest. I view anyone taking the opportunity to make political headway because of this disaster to be little better than the scum who looted and destroyed the city.

This was a terrible disaster. I believe something as bad or worse will happen again in the US. A west coast earthquake, another hurricane, a terrorist act, whatever...the opportunity to see if we have our act together is not a matter of if....but when...and how big. If we spend all of out time trying to figure out who's to blame...we might as well just forget it and let it happen...cause it won't get fixed because of all the finger pointing.

We better figure out who is going to be in charge and when the time comes all the rest should simply ask what can they do to help.

brettw22

I'd be evacuating people at gunpoint personally. I'm not going to have it on anyone's head that some dipshit decided that living ON the swamp was ok. **** that.....you're comin with, and if that means I'm gonna have to cuff you or tie you like a rodeo cow, so be it.

George Grand

"The buck stops here." HST

Frank Z

**** rolls down hill.

George Grand

If the head of your kids nursery school had an obvious case of reverse Midas Touch, not to mention a penchant/track record of taking bad advice, and dismissing or firing the people who in hindsight (Colin Powell, General Shinseki, and others) gave accurate advice, you'd run him out of town on a rail.

Your big one coming (I agree) is a little more than nursery school, and somebody's not quite up to the task.

Furthermore, "I" already know what I'M going to do, and how I'M going to help. I'm going to end up going to freakin' war again, and writing more $300 checks to the Red Cross (If I can still write, and if there's anybody left to cash the check).

Dennis Gardner

The response to 9/11 preparedness has always been that we could never have guessed that this would happen. With that said, I would have thought that those in power would recognize that the least they could do is be over-prepared for the things that are known to be weak spots. Such as disaster preparedness.

This never happened in this case and if the reports of 10,000 drowned is true, we will see a swift power change in '06 & '08. This could be rewrite history.

Not political in intent, just observations.

Polkersince85

The land area affected by this storm was an area the size of Great Britain. How long do you think it should take to check/help everyone in need? It takes a little while to get damage assessments and allocate the resources. 911 was a dot on the map compared to this thing.

MacLeod

Im going to go on record and make this prediction.

Congress will hold hearings to get to the bottom of all this (oh please) and they will point fingers at everybody EXCEPT themselves.

Ya ever notice how Congress is always exempt when it comes to assigning blame for something? Congress is the ultimate authority on things in this country. The President cant create anything without Congress' approval and them funding it. Bush couldnt have created Homeland Security and set it up the way he did without Congressional approval. Yet when all the decapitated bodies are counted, not one will be a "distiguished gentleman" (or lady).

Demiurge

Only 40% of people there had flood insurance.

danger boy

Demiurge wrote:

Only 40% of people there had flood insurance.

you have to remember.. the other 60% is so poor. they couldn't afford flood insurance. you have to understand the social demographics of the area.

pjdami

I have lived my entire life down here in SE Louisiana. I grew up across the river from New Orleans and currently live 15 miles to the west of the city.

New Orleans will be rebuilt bigger and better than ever. The city like many other cities has been through hurricanes before. This was just an unprecedented "BIG" one. At landfall, the pressure was 918 mb, making it the third most intense storm to make landfall in the United States behind the 1935 Labor Day hurricane that hit the FL. keys (892 mb) and Hurricane Camille (905 mb). Hurricane Andrew was 922 mb when it hit south FL in 1992. Storms of this magnitude are very rare (fortunately) but part of life here along the gulf coast.

The French Quarter in New Orleans did not flood and sustained just some minor to moderate wind damage. The Uptown area also did pretty good. The west bank area of the city also did very well. These areas of the city will be opened up sooner than the flooded areas to start the process of building back the commerce and infrastructure to the affected areas.

New Orleans is a large port and very important to the economics of the nation. A large percentage of the nation's natural gas, refineries, and petrochemicals are produced down here (up to 25% as a ballpark number). Other goods include sugar cane, oysters, shrimp, and grain exports.

The levees in New Orleans were only designed to handle a Cat 3 storm or lower... not a Cat 4 or 5. I think the future levee system will be upgraded to include levee "compartments" much like the Titanic design so that only portions of the city can flood if the levees are breached. Ironically, the levee system did do pretty good until the levee at the 17th street canal failed. There was also another levee failure along the industrial canal at St. Bernard Parish.

Just as a reference I have attached a map showing landfalling major hurricanes during the past 100 years or so...

The state has been trying to get funding to restore the coastline and to make improvements to the levee systems.

My prayers and thoughts go out to all those affected by this terrible disaster. I am very lucky as I made out very well during this crisis.

aaharvel

MacLeod wrote:

There are definitely things we can learn from this and do differntly to be prepared next time. Im just of the belief that sometimes **** happens and it isnt anybody's fault.

Now if its shown that somebody was derelict then they should be hung out by their toes but I dont think thats the case.

The media is salivating over this and keeping it going because controversy mean ratings. Eventually, helicopter pictures of the devestation will get old so they need a new angle and conjuring up all this anger at trying to find a skape goat is giving them something else to report.

And politicians are grateful for any opportunity to get some camera time and these days it seems all Congress is good for is finding out whos responsible everytime somebody stubs their toe.

so true friend. According to the news media (all outlets)- "IF IT BLEEDS, IT LEADS"?