Wow! what an upgrade- and it was free.

aaharvel

Originally posted by dragon1952
LOL! Are you drunk already or just planning ahead?

I'm recovering, AND planning ahead.

Bar, Club, Stripjoint. May the force be with me (and my Excedrin)

aaharvel

Originally posted by dragon1952
They've got that nasty 'M' word on them too remember!

yeah i know but they're the same price as the RS solo brand- so hell I might as well buy the Monster.

They look cool too

dragon1952

OK....I won't tell anyone. BTW, if you come home drunk make sure you don't post. I got plastered last night and posted a blow-up sex doll for faster100 and put his wifes name on it. Funny thing is I don't remember doing it and I had no idea what his wifes name was Needless to say he didn't find it too funny

aaharvel

LOL!
(edit) yeah tomorrow it's The Shack.

jmierzur

Have a look at this thread for additional comments on the main subject.

Mike682

Originally posted by dragon1952
The only problem with this wire is that the copper conducters are stiff. The kind of bananas Mike682 suggested don't work real well.

Exactly....

I was just giving an example of a banana connection

dragon1952

Yeah, and not dissin' them at all. They work great just a little tough with the stiffer wire, although I have certainly done it. Just takes a little more muscle to screw them back together and then you get 'pricked' in the finger trying to separate the strands. Those suckers are like needles

Mike682

I actually hate my bananas (they are the AR brand)....now they just sit in their package.

For some reason I lost a lot of dynamics when I installed them, the bass was very weak and the speaks just sounded tinny (polarity was correct, etc)..

I yanked em out and now its much better....

Mike

F1nut

Ok, I'll throw my thoughts on this subject. Bi-wiring for me doesn't work, however using high end bi-wires and matching hi end jumpers together is the absolute shite. Don't ask me why, but it really works, so you might want to try that too.

dragon1952

Yeah, I've heard that bi-wiring is very speaker dependant. Seems to work real nice with the P'digms though.

jet2001

Ok, so I decided to fall in line and remove the jumpers and replace them with speaker wire. I have to admit, I hear a slight change for the better. The extreme highs aren't as harsh and what has made me the most happy is that vocals are....for lack of a better word...better. The articulation of the singer is more defined and the presense of the vocals being 'in-front' is more defined.

Thanks Club Polk for more good advice!

heiney9

Originally posted by madmax
Bi-wiring is cool, technically. When a bass note (or a hard treble sound) hits there is a voltage drop across the cable. It's amplitude depends upon the voltage from the amp and the resistance of the cable. Now, when a treble note (or bass sound) is riding on the same cable the voltage changes mess with it. If you bi-wire, the voltage drop will be on one cable but not the other. This allows one signal to not affect the other. Of course this is all very dynamic and very hard to pick out what sounds are being caused by what but certainly they sound different. This is especially important with a SS output which has an extremely low output impedance. On tube amps it really doesn't matter because the wire resistance is so much lower than the output impedence.

madmax

Wow, Should I call you Steve Austin ?? This phenomenon is so subtle I bet it would even be hard to measure. IF you could measure it there's no way to attribute it to bi-wiring or not.

What exactly is a "hard treble sound"? Sounds like you've been spending to much time in the twilight zone. Also you say it's all "very dynamic", if so then we should have no trouble picking it out! . Dynamic is defined as the difference between the loudest and softest sound. So if it's very dynamic then is should be VERY noticeable???

Sorry MM, I had to call you out on this one. I humbley disagree. Sounds like something a _snake oil_ salesperson would say.

Bi-wiring may have some sort of positive effect, but certainly not like the one you describe above.

H9

Willow

easy way to do it

markmarc

Thanks Willow for the pic. Guess I'll have to dig through my couch cushions to afford that upgrade!!

dragon1952

Originally posted by heiney9
Bi-wiring may have some sort of positive effect, but certainly not like the one you describe above.
H9

I think it's all very system dependant. I'm sure with some speakers/systems it's more noticeable than some. Some maybe not even noticable at all. I also think it's speaker cable dependant to a certain degree, i.e. what type of cable and gauge you're using to bi-wire. But even if it's subtle it's good enough for me. In my system it's subtle but good.
From my speaker manual:
"Bi-wiring improves clarity and openness with less grain and more solidity to the bass. As it only requires two additional speaker cables it is also a low cost way to achieve even better performance from your speakers."
Some people argue that it's better to use an expensive pair of cables and then just use jumpers but I feel expensive speaker cable is the biggest ripoff in audio. Canare 4S11 Star Quad is excellent speaker cable for bi-wiring and is only about .63 cents a foot. That's 2 10ft runs, unterminated, for under $15. It gives you the equivalent of 11ga at the amp and 14ga to each speaker terminal. The individual strands are thick, very high quality copper. Good stuff and very cheap.

aaharvel

OK well I got the banana plugs- i've never used them before so it was awkward at first. But everything's in place- the 12g. wire jumpers, the banana plugs- and The 4's have never sounded better. Those silk tweets have calmed down quite a bit- i'm actually getting neutral sound on PURE 2ch. listening (from MP3 nonetheless) can you believe it?!?

I was taken by how heavy these things are- very well made, and they weren't LOOONNNGGG like the R.S. ones. So yeah the upgrade wasn't free- it was $20. big deal.

http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&product%5Fid=278-2755

madmax

Oh jeez, why do I bother answering...



Smartass: Wow, Should I call you Steve Austin ?? This phenomenon is so subtle I bet it would even be hard to measure. IF you could measure it there's no way to attribute it to bi-wiring or not.

Madmax: IF you could measure it? Just calculate it... With a 70V rail peaked, a wire resistance of 0.05 ohms and a 4 ohm load you end up with 0.864 volts dropped across the cable. You could certainly hear a signal of this magnitude. This is a noise floor of 1.23%. Well, depends on you equipment and hearing I guess.




Smartass: What exactly is a "hard treble sound"? Sounds like you've been spending to much time in the twilight zone.

Madmax: It is a very high amplitude in the higher frequencies.





Smartass: Also you say it's all "very dynamic", if so then we should have no trouble picking it out!

Madmax: It is a quickly changing signal dependent upon a different continually changing frequency range.




Smartass: Dynamic is defined as the difference between the loudest and softest sound. So if it's very dynamic then is should be VERY noticeable???

Madmax: I don't know, the definition I found was: "An interactive system or process, especially one involving competing or conflicting forces." I have to stand by the word I chose...





Smartass: Sorry MM, I had to call you out on this one. I humbley disagree. Sounds like something a _snake oil_ salesperson would say.

Madmax: What a tool...





Smartass: Bi-wiring may have some sort of positive effect, but certainly not like the one you describe above.

Madmax: I actually did not describe any particular effect. I have to scratch my **** on this one.








BTW, I used "Smartass" instead of "Heiney9" to protect the original authors dignity concerning the previous ignorant quotes...

Airplay355

If people think bi-wiring makes a difference, then why the hell does it matter if it does or not? What you percieve is your reality. If it sounds like ****, then it is **** for you. If bi-wiring sounds better, then it makes a difference. If it doesn't, then don't do it. Seems simple enough for me...

aaharvel

Originally posted by Airplay355
If people think bi-wiring makes a difference, then why the hell does it matter if it does or not? What you percieve is your reality. If it sounds like ****, then it is **** for you. If bi-wiring sounds better, then it makes a difference. If it doesn't, then don't do it. Seems simple enough for me...

+1

madmax

Originally posted by Airplay355
If people think bi-wiring makes a difference, then why the hell does it matter if it does or not? What you percieve is your reality. If it sounds like ****, then it is **** for you. If bi-wiring sounds better, then it makes a difference. If it doesn't, then don't do it. Seems simple enough for me...

I agree. Personally I do not bi-wire because I have the amps so close to the speakers anyway.

madmax

F1nut

I have MM winning that round.

heiney9

Originally posted by madmax
Oh jeez, why do I bother answering...



Smartass: Wow, Should I call you Steve Austin ?? This phenomenon is so subtle I bet it would even be hard to measure. IF you could measure it there's no way to attribute it to bi-wiring or not.

Madmax: IF you could measure it? Just calculate it... With a 70V rail peaked, a wire resistance of 0.05 ohms and a 4 ohm load you end up with 0.864 volts dropped across the cable. You could certainly hear a signal of this magnitude. This is a noise floor of 1.23%. Well, depends on you equipment and hearing I guess.




Smartass: What exactly is a "hard treble sound"? Sounds like you've been spending to much time in the twilight zone.

Madmax: It is a very high amplitude in the higher frequencies.





Smartass: Also you say it's all "very dynamic", if so then we should have no trouble picking it out!

Madmax: It is a quickly changing signal dependent upon a different continually changing frequency range.




Smartass: Dynamic is defined as the difference between the loudest and softest sound. So if it's very dynamic then is should be VERY noticeable???

Madmax: I don't know, the definition I found was: "An interactive system or process, especially one involving competing or conflicting forces." I have to stand by the word I chose...





Smartass: Sorry MM, I had to call you out on this one. I humbley disagree. Sounds like something a _snake oil_ salesperson would say.

Madmax: What a tool...





Smartass: Bi-wiring may have some sort of positive effect, but certainly not like the one you describe above.

Madmax: I actually did not describe any particular effect. I have to scratch my **** on this one.








BTW, I used "Smartass" instead of "Heiney9" to protect the original authors dignity concerning the previous ignorant quotes...

Tsk, Tsk, Tsk a little sensitive are we? That's what I like about some of the "senior" members here as soon as you disagree they make thinly veiled attempts at humor to mount a personal attack. Maybe the Steve Austin comment was a bit negative (have you seen him these days, not looking so good) BTW, I have no problem with my dignity. Typical...call someone ignorant, that certainly hits where it counts. Oh well, I could respond; and then MM could call me more names, type some other babble speak, add a smiley and call me another name. Then I could counter again, MM would quote some other defintions which aren't relevent to the terms he's referring to; call me a jackass; act like he doesn't know what I'm saying. And we still wouldn't solve our difference of opinion.

So I'll be the bigger person and not comment on a very subjective subject.
Smilies added to show no malcontent. It's all good MM.

Smartass aka H9

F1nut

I know MM personally and consider him a friend. He's one of the most knowledgeable audio freaks I've ever run across and also one of the most laid back, easy going kinda guys you'd ever want to meet. He didn't attack you, you attacked him, so I don't know what you're complaining about. For the record, I agree with his comments concerning the subject matter.

RuSsMaN

I think dumbass would have been a better choice.

heiney9

Here we go.....everybody jumping on the band wagon. Look, I just disagree with his point if view. That's it. I've seen other members have a different POV and usually it didn't get a reply like MM's. If I mixed words and someone got their feathers ruffled, then I'm sorry for not being more concise. But, if your going to respond with words like smartass and ingnorant expect me to respond accordingly. I have absolutely no issues with MM as a person and I don't believe I called him any name or implied he didn't have any knowlegde on the subject.

It was not my intent to start a big war of words. If I came off a bit pissy, then I apologize for not stating my original post more delicately.

I guess in the future I'll just agree or keep my mouth shut :rolleyes:

Let's please move on. I'm already tired of this.

H9

aaharvel

me too. How did bringing up replacing brass jumpers for wire ones and using banana plugs come to this?

Noel I think you're right. It must be the heat.

die thread. :rolleyes:

heiney9

Originally posted by aaharvel
me too. How did bringing up replacing brass jumpers for wire ones and using banana plugs come to this?

Noel I think you're right. It must be the heat.

die thread. :rolleyes:

It IS friggin hot here in Illinois It's going to be 103 and is already very 'effing humid.......better stay off the forum today:D Gonna be hitting the pool in a bit.

H9

dragon1952

Originally posted by heiney9
I guess in the future I'll just agree or keep my mouth shut :rolleyes:
H9

I've heard that before :rolleyes:

heiney9

Originally posted by dragon1952
I've heard that before :rolleyes:

Yeah, It's called irony or sarcasm, so you'll probably see it again.

H9

madmax

Originally posted by heiney9
Typical...call someone ignorant, that certainly hits where it counts. Smartass aka H9

Nothing wrong with being ignorant about a subject. Maybe you should look into the reasoning behind speaker manufacturers using bi-wire hookups. They do it for a reason and its not because I told them to.

madmax