Wow! what an upgrade- and it was free.

aaharvel
aaharvel Posts: 4,489
edited July 2006 in Speakers
Thanks to Sid for recommending that I trade out my brass jumpers on the back of my RTi4's for about 5" of good 12ga. speaker wire.

Thanks to RuSsMan for providing the info when I did a search on the subject.

The silk tweeters can get bright for CD's- when I switched out the brass for the speakerwire the RTI's brightness on music all but vanished- what was once a neutral/brittle sound is now a Neutral only sound.

Thanks for the advice and information guys!

(edit) just bought banana plugs today to further the upgrade- it sounds even better than it did yesterday!
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Comments

  • bobman1235
    bobman1235 Posts: 10,822
    edited July 2005
    Hmm... s hould I do this on my RTi70's?

    My curiosity is piqued.
    If you will it, dude, it is no dream.
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  • aaharvel
    aaharvel Posts: 4,489
    edited July 2005
    Originally posted by bobman1235
    Hmm... s hould I do this on my RTi70's?

    My curiosity is piqued.

    if you have extra speaker wire then i say try it. You could always go back to the jumpers if you're not satisfied.
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  • AsSiMiLaTeD
    AsSiMiLaTeD Posts: 11,728
    edited July 2005
    I did this on my RTi70s and CSi40.

    It's not going to make a night and day difference, but there is some subtle difference. If anything, it just takes a little 'edge' off the sound.

    I have pretty sensitive hearing, and I only heard subtle differences - although it's definitely worth it due to those differences I did hear.

    To put it in perspective, I'd be surprised if more than 25% of people could tell the difference in a blind test, at least on an average system.

    Having said all that, it's definitely worth it IMO - just don't be surprised if you don't hear a big difference.
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  • aaharvel
    aaharvel Posts: 4,489
    edited July 2005
    Originally posted by Polkmaniac
    I did this on my RTi70s and CSi40.

    It's not going to make a night and day difference, but there is some subtle difference. If anything, it just takes a little 'edge' off the sound.

    you're right- it's subtle but noticeable. Just the tweeter. And definitely worth it.
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  • Airplay355
    Airplay355 Posts: 4,298
    edited July 2005
    I'm just gonna bi-wire...Same difference :-D
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  • aaharvel
    aaharvel Posts: 4,489
    edited July 2005
    Originally posted by Airplay355
    I'm just gonna bi-wire...Same difference :-D

    yeah the reason i'm still using jumpers (either s.wire or brass jumpers) is b/c I can't bi-wire. I would if I could.
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,818
    edited July 2005
    Stick to jumpers.

    Bi-Wiring is just an expensive way of making you spend more money over jumpers. You'd be hard pressed to tell the difference probally. I'd buy new speakers if I felt the need to spend the extra cash on Bi-Wires honestly.
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • aaharvel
    aaharvel Posts: 4,489
    edited July 2005
    i was thinking about buying banana plugs (?) for my amp to speaker wire connections so i don't have to cram the wire jumpers AND speaker wire into the bottom two binding post holes of my rti4's- That's how I have it now and I don't think it will hurt it- but I've always been curious about banana plugs- I just have no idea how to put banana plugs on the end of wires (i still have alot to learn about this stuff =)
    H/K Signature 2.1+235
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,818
    edited July 2005
    Just save up your cash and buy some Signal Cable Classic Single Runs!

    www.signalcable.com

    He'll even make ya jumpers I bet ;)

    Solid cables, hand made in the USA, with excellent components for the price.

    As for applying nanners, soldering...crimping....duct tape...whatever (that last one was a joke)
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • Airplay355
    Airplay355 Posts: 4,298
    edited July 2005
    Nah, I'll bi-wire. I only have 14 ga wire and i'll feel better with two runs going to my speaks.
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  • madmax
    madmax Posts: 12,434
    edited July 2005
    Bi-wiring is cool, technically. When a bass note (or a hard treble sound) hits there is a voltage drop across the cable. It's amplitude depends upon the voltage from the amp and the resistance of the cable. Now, when a treble note (or bass sound) is riding on the same cable the voltage changes mess with it. If you bi-wire, the voltage drop will be on one cable but not the other. This allows one signal to not affect the other. Of course this is all very dynamic and very hard to pick out what sounds are being caused by what but certainly they sound different. This is especially important with a SS output which has an extremely low output impedance. On tube amps it really doesn't matter because the wire resistance is so much lower than the output impedence.

    madmax
    Vinyl, the final frontier...

    Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want... :D
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  • Mike682
    Mike682 Posts: 2,074
    edited July 2005
    Originally posted by aaharvel
    i I just have no idea how to put banana plugs on the end of wires (i still have alot to learn about this stuff =)

    Mine work like this: unscrew the top of the plug, then take the speaker wire, insert it into the inner/bottom part and spread the bare wire around the inner part, then screw the top part of the plug back on. The top part clamps the wire down so it stays..

    Mike
    Receiver: harmankardon AVR235
    Mains: polk R30
    Center: polk CSi3
    Rear Surrounds: polk R20
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  • dragon1952
    dragon1952 Posts: 4,907
    edited July 2005
    Originally posted by Airplay355
    I'm just gonna bi-wire...Same difference :-D

    The Canare 4S11 Star Quad cable is a cheap and very good cable for bi-wiring at only .63 cents a foot.

    http://www.westlake-electronic.com/cgi-bin/store.php?search=yes&detail=yes&category=CAB&SUBCAT=CAN-&item_no=CAN-4S11-100MT
    2 channel - Willsenton R8 tube integrated, Holo Audio Spring 3 KTE DAC, audio optimized NUC7i5, Windows 10 Pro/JRiver MC29/Fidelizer Plus 8.7 w/LPS and external SSD drive, PS Audio PerfectWave P3 regenerator, KEF R3 speakers, Rythmik F12SE subwoofer, Audioquest Diamond USB cable, Gabriel Gold IC's, Morrow Audio SP5 speaker cables. Computer - Windows 10/JRiver, Schiit Magni 3+/Modi 3+, Fostex PMO.4n monitors, Sennheiser HD600 headphones
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  • dragon1952
    dragon1952 Posts: 4,907
    edited July 2005
    Originally posted by dragon1952
    The Canare 4S11 Star Quad cable is a cheap and very good cable for bi-wiring at only .63 cents a foot.

    http://www.westlake-electronic.com/cgi-bin/store.php?search=yes&detail=yes&category=CAB&SUBCAT=CAN-&item_no=CAN-4S11-100MT

    The only problem with this wire is that the copper conducters are stiff. The kind of bananas Mike682 suggested don't work real well. Radio Shack has some that use a screw compression type connection that works real well though.
    2 channel - Willsenton R8 tube integrated, Holo Audio Spring 3 KTE DAC, audio optimized NUC7i5, Windows 10 Pro/JRiver MC29/Fidelizer Plus 8.7 w/LPS and external SSD drive, PS Audio PerfectWave P3 regenerator, KEF R3 speakers, Rythmik F12SE subwoofer, Audioquest Diamond USB cable, Gabriel Gold IC's, Morrow Audio SP5 speaker cables. Computer - Windows 10/JRiver, Schiit Magni 3+/Modi 3+, Fostex PMO.4n monitors, Sennheiser HD600 headphones
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  • dragon1952
    dragon1952 Posts: 4,907
    edited July 2005
    Kind of like this. You unscrew the bottom piece, insert the wire into the hole from the side and then tighten the bottom piece.
    2 channel - Willsenton R8 tube integrated, Holo Audio Spring 3 KTE DAC, audio optimized NUC7i5, Windows 10 Pro/JRiver MC29/Fidelizer Plus 8.7 w/LPS and external SSD drive, PS Audio PerfectWave P3 regenerator, KEF R3 speakers, Rythmik F12SE subwoofer, Audioquest Diamond USB cable, Gabriel Gold IC's, Morrow Audio SP5 speaker cables. Computer - Windows 10/JRiver, Schiit Magni 3+/Modi 3+, Fostex PMO.4n monitors, Sennheiser HD600 headphones
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  • aaharvel
    aaharvel Posts: 4,489
    edited July 2005
    Originally posted by dragon1952
    Kind of like this. You unscrew the bottom piece, insert the wire into the hole from the side and then tighten the bottom piece.

    hey thanks Dragon1952. So it's that simple to do?
    cool
    H/K Signature 2.1+235
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  • ND13
    ND13 Posts: 7,601
    edited July 2005
    Originally posted by aaharvel
    hey thanks Dragon1952. So it's that simple to do?
    cool

    Depends on what brand you buy. I've used two different brands.
    "SOME PEOPLE CALL ME MAURICE,
    CAUSE I SPEAK OF THE POMPITIOUS OF LOVE"
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  • aaharvel
    aaharvel Posts: 4,489
    edited July 2005
    i was just thinking about going to the Local Radio Shack and picking up 4 for cheap. Would that not be smart? I mean it's not like i've got a high dollar system or anything
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  • steveinaz
    steveinaz Posts: 19,538
    edited July 2005
    Buy non-biwireable speakers and you don't have to stress about any of this...:D
    Source: Bluesound Node 2i - Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2 DX - Amp: Parasound Halo A21 - Speakers: MartinLogan Motion 60XTi - Shop Rig: Yamaha A-S501 Integrated - Shop Spkrs: Elac Debut 2.0 B5.2
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  • ND13
    ND13 Posts: 7,601
    edited July 2005
    Originally posted by aaharvel
    i was just thinking about going to the Local Radio Shack and picking up 4 for cheap. Would that not be smart? I mean it's not like i've got a high dollar system or anything

    I got both types at RS. Work just fine. The duals are easy to use, but kinda long. I like 'em though.
    "SOME PEOPLE CALL ME MAURICE,
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  • Early B.
    Early B. Posts: 7,900
    edited July 2005
    Cobalt Cable makes great quality jumpers if you don't wanna make your own.
    HT/2-channel Rig: Sony 50” LCD TV; Toshiba HD-A2 DVD player; Emotiva LMC-1 pre/pro; Rogue Audio M-120 monoblocks (modded); Placette RVC; Emotiva LPA-1 amp; Bada HD-22 tube CDP (modded); VMPS Tower II SE (fronts); DIY Clearwave Dynamic 4CC (center); Wharfedale Opus Tri-Surrounds (rear); and VMPS 215 sub

    "God grooves with tubes."
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  • dragon1952
    dragon1952 Posts: 4,907
    edited July 2005
    Originally posted by aaharvel
    i was just thinking about going to the Local Radio Shack and picking up 4 for cheap. Would that not be smart? I mean it's not like i've got a high dollar system or anything

    The Radio Shack bananas are fine. Only problem for me was that at our RS the only compression bananas they had were the 'duals' like this. The spacing is OK for most amps but not wide enough for my speakers. I'm just using bare wire at the speaker end right now. Measure your spacing first. These are 3/4".
    2 channel - Willsenton R8 tube integrated, Holo Audio Spring 3 KTE DAC, audio optimized NUC7i5, Windows 10 Pro/JRiver MC29/Fidelizer Plus 8.7 w/LPS and external SSD drive, PS Audio PerfectWave P3 regenerator, KEF R3 speakers, Rythmik F12SE subwoofer, Audioquest Diamond USB cable, Gabriel Gold IC's, Morrow Audio SP5 speaker cables. Computer - Windows 10/JRiver, Schiit Magni 3+/Modi 3+, Fostex PMO.4n monitors, Sennheiser HD600 headphones
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  • ND13
    ND13 Posts: 7,601
    edited July 2005
    Originally posted by dragon1952
    The Radio Shack bananas are fine. Only problem for me was that at our RS the only compression bananas they had were the 'duals' like this. The spacing is OK for most amps but not wide enough for my speakers. I'm just using bare wire at the speaker end right now.

    That's the ones I use. What speakers do you have that they won't fit. So far they've fit all my terminals(10 pairs), that accept nanners.
    "SOME PEOPLE CALL ME MAURICE,
    CAUSE I SPEAK OF THE POMPITIOUS OF LOVE"
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  • dragon1952
    dragon1952 Posts: 4,907
    edited July 2005
    Originally posted by ND13
    That's the ones I use. What speakers do you have that they won't fit. So far they've fit all my terminals(10 pairs), that accept nanners.

    Paradigm Studio 40's. They're actually quite a bit wider.
    Here's a better shot of the bananas though. They're not super cheap either, BTW. They're like $6.50 each (1 dual). If they have the singles they're like $6.50 per pair.
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  • aaharvel
    aaharvel Posts: 4,489
    edited July 2005
    Originally posted by dragon1952
    The Radio Shack bananas are fine. Only problem for me was that at our RS the only compression bananas they had were the 'duals' like this. The spacing is OK for most amps but not wide enough for my speakers. I'm just using bare wire at the speaker end right now. Measure your spacing first. These are 3/4".

    yeah i would get the single ones. THey just look better imo.

    Whenever I wake up from my hangover tomorrow I'll stop by The Shack and get some. :D
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  • ND13
    ND13 Posts: 7,601
    edited July 2005
    I've always wanted to listen to some Pdimes, just have never found a retailer.
    "SOME PEOPLE CALL ME MAURICE,
    CAUSE I SPEAK OF THE POMPITIOUS OF LOVE"
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  • aaharvel
    aaharvel Posts: 4,489
    edited July 2005
    hey how about these?

    http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&product%5Fid=278-2755

    for 2pair they're about the same price as Radio Shack brand mid-grade bananas.
    H/K Signature 2.1+235
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  • dragon1952
    dragon1952 Posts: 4,907
    edited July 2005
    Originally posted by aaharvel
    yeah i would get the single ones. THey just look better imo.

    Whenever I wake up from my hangover tomorrow I'll stop by The Shack and get some. :D

    LOL! Are you drunk already or just planning ahead?

    BTW, that single one I showed wasn't from RS though. Here's the kind Mike682 was talking about. You just screw off the bottom piece and insert the wire up through the bottom piece and drape the wire strands uniformly over the threads, then screw it back on.
    2 channel - Willsenton R8 tube integrated, Holo Audio Spring 3 KTE DAC, audio optimized NUC7i5, Windows 10 Pro/JRiver MC29/Fidelizer Plus 8.7 w/LPS and external SSD drive, PS Audio PerfectWave P3 regenerator, KEF R3 speakers, Rythmik F12SE subwoofer, Audioquest Diamond USB cable, Gabriel Gold IC's, Morrow Audio SP5 speaker cables. Computer - Windows 10/JRiver, Schiit Magni 3+/Modi 3+, Fostex PMO.4n monitors, Sennheiser HD600 headphones
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  • dragon1952
    dragon1952 Posts: 4,907
    edited July 2005
    Originally posted by aaharvel
    hey how about these?

    http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&product%5Fid=278-2755

    for 2pair they're about the same price as Radio Shack brand mid-grade bananas.

    I've never used those so I'm not sure how they connect. Probably like the single one I showed above. Don't count on the RS counter guy to know either :rolleyes:
    They've got that nasty 'M' word on them too remember! ;)
    2 channel - Willsenton R8 tube integrated, Holo Audio Spring 3 KTE DAC, audio optimized NUC7i5, Windows 10 Pro/JRiver MC29/Fidelizer Plus 8.7 w/LPS and external SSD drive, PS Audio PerfectWave P3 regenerator, KEF R3 speakers, Rythmik F12SE subwoofer, Audioquest Diamond USB cable, Gabriel Gold IC's, Morrow Audio SP5 speaker cables. Computer - Windows 10/JRiver, Schiit Magni 3+/Modi 3+, Fostex PMO.4n monitors, Sennheiser HD600 headphones
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  • dragon1952
    dragon1952 Posts: 4,907
    edited July 2005
    Originally posted by ND13
    I've always wanted to listen to some Pdimes, just have never found a retailer.

    You're welcome anytime ;) It's only about a 30 hour drive :D
    2 channel - Willsenton R8 tube integrated, Holo Audio Spring 3 KTE DAC, audio optimized NUC7i5, Windows 10 Pro/JRiver MC29/Fidelizer Plus 8.7 w/LPS and external SSD drive, PS Audio PerfectWave P3 regenerator, KEF R3 speakers, Rythmik F12SE subwoofer, Audioquest Diamond USB cable, Gabriel Gold IC's, Morrow Audio SP5 speaker cables. Computer - Windows 10/JRiver, Schiit Magni 3+/Modi 3+, Fostex PMO.4n monitors, Sennheiser HD600 headphones
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