The Truth About Speaker Wire...

BrentMcGhee
BrentMcGhee Posts: 548
edited July 2005 in Basic Hookup/Wiring Questions
Has anyone else ever read this article before

http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm

I just found it tonight on another forum and thought i would share it with you guys.

What does everybody here think about it?
Post edited by BrentMcGhee on
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  • dorokusai
    dorokusai Posts: 25,576
    edited July 2005
    It's an informative site, with wealth of data, but also with his opinion.

    I'll throw it over in the Cable Theory thread as it's as applicable as the rest of the links.

    CTC BBQ Amplifier, Sonic Frontiers Line3 Pre-Amplifier and Wadia 581 SACD player. Speakers? Always changing but for now, Mission Argonauts I picked up for $50 bucks, mint.
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  • MaxxuM
    MaxxuM Posts: 31
    edited July 2005
    I’ve read similar articles and even a few that actually put wires through more ‘scientific’ testing. The wire market is WAY over priced IMO and there is a lot of snake oil out there. I currently use CAT-5e shielded network wire as its cost to performance ratio is beyond anything I’ve read lately. Total cost was about 70 bucks due mainly to banana plugs and pretty tape.
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  • dorokusai
    dorokusai Posts: 25,576
    edited July 2005
    I will agree that ther are some cable manufacturers that have completely lost their collective minds, but there are alot that work for me personally.

    I explored the CAT5 idea, beings that is more than available to me, and found no benefit. I ran the multi-braid, lazy and even the Venhaus formula. If I liked it, I would have kept it. I think the DIY genre is outstanding, but it doesn't fit into everyones bracket.

    The DIY genre also creates it's own placebo effect, and it's interesting to see them crow about the benefits. I'll digress into my standard statement, "Who cares...", it's on you to figure out what sounds good and it has nothing to do with what you read.
    CTC BBQ Amplifier, Sonic Frontiers Line3 Pre-Amplifier and Wadia 581 SACD player. Speakers? Always changing but for now, Mission Argonauts I picked up for $50 bucks, mint.
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 51,117
    edited July 2005
    That's not the truth about speaker wire, it's one guys opinion and it's my opinion that he's wrong.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • TheReaper
    TheReaper Posts: 636
    edited July 2005
    Originally posted by F1nut
    That's not the truth about speaker wire, it's one guys opinion and it's my opinion that he's wrong.
    It's my opinion that your opinion of his opinion is opinionated. :)
    Win7 Media Center -> Onkyo TXSR702 -> Polk Rti70
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  • mantis
    mantis Posts: 17,235
    edited July 2005
    I suggest you read all you can, learn as much about wire as you can stand.

    Then go listen to different wire and see if it makes a difference.

    In my experience , different brand wires sound different. I don't believe there is a better or worse. It's how it sounds in you system that matters.

    Quality of the materials to make up the build matter , you would like the money you spend to last awhile.

    Dan
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
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  • PolkThug
    PolkThug Posts: 7,532
    edited July 2005
    Roger's 25 year career at McIntosh is also a good read.

    http://www.roger-russell.com/lsd2.htm
    Never Forget
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  • BrentMcGhee
    BrentMcGhee Posts: 548
    edited July 2005
    I dont think there will ever be an end to the cable debate :rolleyes:
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  • shack
    shack Posts: 11,154
    edited July 2005
    Originally posted by BrentMcGhee
    I dont think there will ever be an end to the cable debate :rolleyes:
    But then again...YOU started this one....
    "Just because you’re offended doesn’t mean you’re right." - Ricky Gervais

    "For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible." - Stuart Chase

    "Consistency requires you to be as ignorant today as you were a year ago." - Bernard Berenson
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  • BrentMcGhee
    BrentMcGhee Posts: 548
    edited July 2005
    Originally posted by shack
    But then again...YOU started this one....

    Haha.... your right i should have known better... My original intent was not to start a debate but i see i did not do a very good job at that :) I was just curious if anyone else had read this before, and get a few thoughts about it.
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  • RuSsMaN
    RuSsMaN Posts: 17,986
    edited July 2005
    Who cares.

    My rigs will lay WASTE to any of you ****'s setups.

    I am the motherf#$ker!!! High Five!!! Top Gun High Five!!!
    Check your lips at the door woman. Shake your hips like battleships. Yeah, all the white girls trip when I sing at Sunday service.
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  • dcarlson
    dcarlson Posts: 1,740
    edited July 2005
    I like my cables.
    SDA-2a, Anthem Pre-2L, Anthem Amp 1, MF A324 DAC, Rotel RCD1070

    Senn HD650 Cardas, Mapletree Audio Ear+ HD2, Kimber KS1030, Bel Canto DAC2, M-Audio Transit, Laptop.
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  • BrentMcGhee
    BrentMcGhee Posts: 548
    edited July 2005
    Originally posted by dcarlson
    I like my cables.

    what cables do you have?
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  • BrentMcGhee
    BrentMcGhee Posts: 548
    edited July 2005
    Originally posted by RuSsMaN
    Who cares.

    My rigs will lay WASTE to any of you ****'s setups.

    I am the motherf#$ker!!! High Five!!! Top Gun High Five!!!

    I hope that was meant to come across as sarcasm..... i am not meaning it as i am challenging your system against mine for i have no idea what you have but it just seems like a really jack **** statement to make even if your stuff is the end all, be all.

    If it was sarcasm..... pheewww, no harm no foul :)
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  • bobman1235
    bobman1235 Posts: 10,822
    edited July 2005
    Originally posted by BrentMcGhee
    I hope that was meant to come across as sarcasm..... i am not meaning it as i am challenging your system against mine for i have no idea what you have but it just seems like a really jack **** statement to make even if your stuff is the end all, be all.

    If it was sarcasm..... pheewww, no harm no foul :)

    First of all, it's RUSS. Is it even possible to take him that seriously? (Uh, no offense Russ...)

    And second, anytime the phrase "Top Gun High Five" is involved, I think it's safe to assume the entire thing is in jest.
    If you will it, dude, it is no dream.
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  • BrentMcGhee
    BrentMcGhee Posts: 548
    edited July 2005
    thats what i kind of figured :p

    Sorry Russ
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  • shack
    shack Posts: 11,154
    edited July 2005
    He's serious...and probably right.
    "Just because you’re offended doesn’t mean you’re right." - Ricky Gervais

    "For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible." - Stuart Chase

    "Consistency requires you to be as ignorant today as you were a year ago." - Bernard Berenson
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  • dcarlson
    dcarlson Posts: 1,740
    edited July 2005
    I feel my cables give me the sound I'm looking for at the price I'm willing to pay.

    What is a Top Gun High Five anyway?
    SDA-2a, Anthem Pre-2L, Anthem Amp 1, MF A324 DAC, Rotel RCD1070

    Senn HD650 Cardas, Mapletree Audio Ear+ HD2, Kimber KS1030, Bel Canto DAC2, M-Audio Transit, Laptop.
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  • RuSsMaN
    RuSsMaN Posts: 17,986
    edited July 2005
    Top Gun High Five?

    The volleyball game scene, starts with a regular high five, and as you pass each other, you follow though with a backwards low-five.

    Cheers,
    Iceman
    Check your lips at the door woman. Shake your hips like battleships. Yeah, all the white girls trip when I sing at Sunday service.
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  • dcarlson
    dcarlson Posts: 1,740
    edited July 2005
    Ahhhh. LMAO.
    SDA-2a, Anthem Pre-2L, Anthem Amp 1, MF A324 DAC, Rotel RCD1070

    Senn HD650 Cardas, Mapletree Audio Ear+ HD2, Kimber KS1030, Bel Canto DAC2, M-Audio Transit, Laptop.
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  • MaxxuM
    MaxxuM Posts: 31
    edited July 2005
    Originally posted by dorokusai
    I will agree that ther are some cable manufacturers that have completely lost their collective minds, but there are alot that work for me personally.

    I explored the CAT5 idea, beings that is more than available to me, and found no benefit. I ran the multi-braid, lazy and even the Venhaus formula. If I liked it, I would have kept it. I think the DIY genre is outstanding, but it doesn't fit into everyones bracket.

    The DIY genre also creates it's own placebo effect, and it's interesting to see them crow about the benefits. I'll digress into my standard statement, "Who cares...", it's on you to figure out what sounds good and it has nothing to do with what you read.

    Ug, I got tired of twisting after the second speaker and I only did the front three that way – actually had to get my 10yo daughter to teach me how to do it properly.

    I think CAT5 is superior in certain ways particularly if comparing it with regular ol’ 14 gauge wire, but I am certain there are better wires out there; it’s just the cost that keeps me from getting them. And I don’t think there is a debate about different quality of wires, just value of such wires.

    The only real ‘truth’ I have been able to find is if a company is not willing to produce real world specs on their products then you probably should avoid them (e.g. Bose and Sharper Image are two companies that come to mind).
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 51,117
    edited July 2005
    Originally posted by MaxxuM
    The only real ‘truth’ I have been able to find is if a company is not willing to produce real world specs on their products then you probably should avoid them

    No, the real truth has nothing to do with specs. Specs should be used as a loose guide only. The real truth lies in how it sounds to you.

    As I've never used CAT 5 I really can't comment on how it sounds. On the other hand, since you've never used real high end cables I don't see how you can say CAT 5 is superior to anything.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • ode
    ode Posts: 58
    edited July 2005
    I remember that Stereo Review 1983 article, you would have thought he shot the Pope. I still take his advice, I buy lamp cord from Home Depot or 16 gauge speaker wire if it's on sale. Up until that article I don't think I had ever read a bad review of anything in Stereo Review.
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  • disneyjoe7
    disneyjoe7 Posts: 11,435
    edited July 2005
    Originally posted by F1nut
    That's not the truth about speaker wire, it's one guys opinion and it's my opinion that he's wrong.


    Jesse,

    I'm with you 110% on this. Can add his opinion is complete BS.

    Speakers
    Carver Amazing Fronts
    CS400i Center
    RT800i's Rears
    Sub Paradigm Servo 15

    Electronics
    Conrad Johnson PV-5 pre-amp
    Parasound Halo A23
    Pioneer 84TXSi AVR
    Pioneer 79Avi DVD
    Sony CX400 CD changer
    Panasonic 42-PX60U Plasma
    WMC Win7 32bit HD DVR


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  • dorokusai
    dorokusai Posts: 25,576
    edited July 2005
    Originally posted by MaxxuM
    Ug, I got tired of twisting after the second speaker and I only did the front three that way – actually had to get my 10yo daughter to teach me how to do it properly.

    I think CAT5 is superior in certain ways particularly if comparing it with regular ol’ 14 gauge wire, but I am certain there are better wires out there; it’s just the cost that keeps me from getting them. And I don’t think there is a debate about different quality of wires, just value of such wires.

    The only real ‘truth’ I have been able to find is if a company is not willing to produce real world specs on their products then you probably should avoid them (e.g. Bose and Sharper Image are two companies that come to mind).

    It gets real old twisting that stuff huh? :D I'm glad you made something that really works well for you, that's cool.

    Cost is on every audio nuts mind, whether it be cheap or very expensive....cost is a universal factor for sure.

    Enjoy!
    CTC BBQ Amplifier, Sonic Frontiers Line3 Pre-Amplifier and Wadia 581 SACD player. Speakers? Always changing but for now, Mission Argonauts I picked up for $50 bucks, mint.
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  • dorokusai
    dorokusai Posts: 25,576
    edited July 2005
    Originally posted by disneyjoe7
    Jesse,

    I'm with you 110% on this. Can add his opinion is complete BS.

    I don't think his opinion is complete BS and he's certainly not new to this field. You have to read it at face value without a pre-determined judgement, otherwise you're just not getting the point. I may not agree with him on every level either, but it certainly doesn't mean he's an moron.
    CTC BBQ Amplifier, Sonic Frontiers Line3 Pre-Amplifier and Wadia 581 SACD player. Speakers? Always changing but for now, Mission Argonauts I picked up for $50 bucks, mint.
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  • BrentMcGhee
    BrentMcGhee Posts: 548
    edited July 2005
    Originally posted by disneyjoe7
    Jesse,

    I'm with you 110% on this. Can add his opinion is complete BS.

    I am not saying i agree or disagree with what he said, but calling someones opinion bs when there is no justified facts to prove or disprove eithers point is pretty ignorant.

    He beleives that wire does not make a difference,
    You do

    does that make one of you wrong and the other right, absolutley not.
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 51,117
    edited July 2005
    I'm never wrong, therefore I must be right. ;)

    XOXO,
    The grumpy old guy
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • MaxxuM
    MaxxuM Posts: 31
    edited July 2005
    Originally posted by F1nut
    No, the real truth has nothing to do with specs. Specs should be used as a loose guide only. The real truth lies in how it sounds to you.

    Very true, just about everyone is stretching the truth about their stuff – but I still want something to compare with.
    Originally posted by F1nut
    As I've never used CAT 5 I really can't comment on how it sounds. On the other hand, since you've never used real high end cables I don't see how you can say CAT 5 is superior to anything.

    Actually, I have all manner of cables lying around in my garage from high end 6 pair optical gel filled suspension line to old monster cable. I think I still even have Axiom and River Cable (nothing complete mind you, just single sets). I subcontract for several companies one of which is an electronics boutique and they sometimes let me keep extra wire or at least offer it at cost.

    And between the CAT5 and the Axiom there was a difference, but I had to sit for a while and all the doors closed to hear it. If I had a choice I would choose the Axiom wires, but at a difference of 99% per foot in cost I just couldn’t bring myself to do it.
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  • RuSsMaN
    RuSsMaN Posts: 17,986
    edited July 2005
    Hi Fidelity is the order of the day for most here. Naysayers can stick with gruntball, a match made in heaven.

    Just what the world needs, another cable debate. Like we (believers) GAIN anything from it, other than our otherwise good-nature souls trying to help others benefit, and get MORE out of their rigs.

    Jackasses, every last one of ya.
    Check your lips at the door woman. Shake your hips like battleships. Yeah, all the white girls trip when I sing at Sunday service.
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