jl sub question

Toxis

JL = absolute garbage. You just shot your credibility right out the window with that comment. I'm sorry, but I sold JL for about 4 years and have yet to have ANY company be so reliable. I have put more abuse into JL subs (especially the W0's) than any other and they keep on trucking. I'm a huge JL fan because of that, not to mention their subs sound amazing for the money and their amps are serious balls.

neomagus00

Toxis wrote:

their subs sound amazing for the money

i do believe that this statement is what pbd has a problem with...


when people here say JL sucks, they're not usually referring to the actual quality of the product, but rather the value, or what you get in return for what you've paid. lots of people - namely cody, and, apparently, pbd - believe that you don't get what you pay for. others - namely macleod - disagree.

MacLeod

When people here say JL sucks its for no other reason than bandwagon bashing. Its the same thing MB Quart is going thru now too. There are more and more people out there poo-pooing MB Quart as trash. Just like 10 years from now there will be a bunch of bandwagon bashers trashing Focal and DLS, I guarantee it. When a brand gets on top and starts setting the standard for the industry for some reason people start to hate it. Beats me.

And dont give me the "too overpriced" crap either. The XR's are one of the best speakers on the market, and at $375 MSRP they have a great price too. The $400 W6 is nearly untouchable in SQ from a sub in any pricerange and the $700 W7 outperforms most subs in its price range as well. Their amps are extremely well made and exceed their ratings by a wide margin and start as little as $200!

I would love to get the JL haters in a ABX test and see how many times they DONT choose the JL speaker or sub.

Damn it feels good to FINALLY have somebody on my side that can speak with authority!

PoweredByDodge

what's the current price on a W7?
... on a RE **** ?
... on a soundstream Davinci?
... on an IDmax ?

or even something from DD.

- all 12" or "equivelant 1000-1500 watt sub" (ex. the 13.5 W7 does count for this, not that bogus 700 watt 12" w7).

line up the prices, then line up the quality comparison, then line up your own personal feelings toward the company that stands behind the product -- best out of 3 wins.

There was a day when you could get 3 IDmaxes for the price of one W7 ... and the Gen 1 and 2 maxes outperformed the W7 at the time as well.

I despise their **** **** logo, i despise their little snotty "i'm a ghetto superstar" company image, i despise the W0 with all my heart and soul ... I do truly believe the W6 to be a better overall unit than the W7 any day of the week... and while i may not hate the W6 as much as the rest of JL - i still would save, upon my proverbial death bed, my last curse word, my last bladder of piss, and my last bullet for anyone or anything that resembled JL audio.

MacLeod

Ghetto superstar? Where do you get that? RF is the one trying to be all "pimp".

Prices for the W7 run from $400-800 MSRP. Focal, Cadence, Bravox, Cerwin Vega, Critical Mass, Crossfire, Diamond Audio, Earthquake, JBL, Kenwood (yes, Kenwood), Kicker, MA Audio, Memphis, MMATS, Orion, MTX, Phase Evolution, Phoenix Gold, RE Audio, Rockford Fosgate, Soundstream and Treo all have subs in this price range and I guarantee you the W7 will easily be on par and in most cases outperform any of these others.

denim

PoweredByDodge wrote:

what's the current price on a W7?
... on a RE **** ?
... on a soundstream Davinci?
... on an IDmax ?

or even something from DD.

- all 12" or "equivelant 1000-1500 watt sub" (ex. the 13.5 W7 does count for this, not that bogus 700 watt 12" w7).

line up the prices, then line up the quality comparison, then line up your own personal feelings toward the company that stands behind the product -- best out of 3 wins.

There was a day when you could get 3 IDmaxes for the price of one W7 ... and the Gen 1 and 2 maxes outperformed the W7 at the time as well.

I despise their **** **** logo, i despise their little snotty "i'm a ghetto superstar" company image, i despise the W0 with all my heart and soul ... I do truly believe the W6 to be a better overall unit than the W7 any day of the week... and while i may not hate the W6 as much as the rest of JL - i still would save, upon my proverbial death bed, my last curse word, my last bladder of piss, and my last bullet for anyone or anything that resembled JL audio.

if you guys are looking at subs in that class, I would reccomend the new Stereo Integrity MAG,

I tested the prototype and it was excellent, very efficent, I posted up a video on realmofexcursion.com

MacLeod

denim wrote:

if you guys are looking at subs in that class, I would reccomend the new Stereo Integrity MAG,

I tested the prototype and it was excellent, very efficent, I posted up a video on realmofexcursion.com

Wouldnt you rather we look at a SoundSplinter? j/k

Toxis

The way I see it, everyone just hates because JL actually created the one ultimate sub that all others are compared against. Just to bad I haven't heard a single sub yet that comes close to it in output AND sound quality. The closest was the IDMax and I still would prefer the lower end of the W7. Who all makes a "W7 Killer" sub these days? Everyone claims it... why don't you ever hear about the MTX 9500 killer subs? Or the RE **** killer? Is that because they weren't the original or that they don't compare? I'm sorry but name another sub out there that is TRULY unique like the W7. Who created their own surround/mounting of the sub just to get more extention? Who has every single piece custom made (other than 4 off the shelf screws) to make their elite sub? Who else has put just under 10 years worth of R&D into a single sub to desimate all? I guarantee it wasn't all these internet brands that you can't find in any store (because why would you want to hear a sub prior to buying it? Oh that's right, some people online told me it was better so they know what I want/like). I guarantee it wasn't all these brands that use 90+% of the parts used are sold from the same factory that makes MTX and everyone else's parts. The W7 is truly an amazing sub. If you can't respect it in the slightest, you need to learn a lot about driver design.

Ghetto superstar? Oh ok, them and Ferrari are all about being ghetto.

1996blackmax

MacLeod wrote:

Wouldnt you rather we look at a SoundSplinter? j/k

Someone here once asked me if I worked for SS . I am just a very satisfied customer .

PoweredByDodge

The IDmax was developed BEFORE the JL-W7.

The IDmax has 0.98 " Xmax
W7 has 1.25" Xmax

IDmax Sd = 84.5 sq-in
W7 Sd = 107.3 sq-in

based upon above...

Effective displacement IDmax = 82.81 cubic inches
Effective displacement W7 = 134.13 cubic inches

This assumes both subs are driven to full excursion... or are they?

The IDmax can be driven well beyond its rated RMS power, Xmax on the IDmax is a thermal rating, not a mechanical rating. Damage to the voice coil former could occur if you put enough power on it to move the cone past the rated Xmax. It'll take it though.

Xmax on the W7 is a mechanical rating, so even if you could dump more power on it, it's going to hit bottom or it'll try to bust past the limits of the surround.

In short - while the W7 displaces more air on paper, the IDmax is close or equal in reality.

W7 thermal power rating = 1000 watts rms.
IDmax thermal power rating = 1000 watts rms.

W7 practical power rating = 1000 - 1100 watts rms.
IDmax practical power rating = 1300 - 1400 watts rms.

This just balances with the volumetric issue above. Six one half, half dozen in the other.

Vas IDmax = 5.81 cubic feet
Vas W7 = 3.68 cubic feet

The idmax has a stiffer suspension - can "take more of a beating" and will not bend or flex in ways that would a) cause distortion or b) cause driver failure under even the heaviest wattage loads and with the sickest bass songs playing. This is one reason why the IDmax is perfectly happy in a sealed enclosure (optimum for true SQ performance) while the W7 is only reccomended for ported enclosures, where pressure can be relieved so as to allow the driver not to self destruct.

Fs IDmax = 20 hertz
Fs W7 = 23.5 hertz

The IDmax plays truer, lower. it's only 3 hertz, but i'll still stick it to 'ya.

In conclusion... the W7's no slouch, but the IDmax is at least equal (better in my opinion)... and the IDmax was the first.

Toxis

I just wish the IDMax would come in a 10"... but I might have to do an IDQ10 for my application.

denim

MacLeod wrote:

Wouldnt you rather we look at a SoundSplinter? j/k

haha, yeah the RL-p is in that class also, and is priced lower than the ones mentioned, I love the MAG also, a seriouly capable sub,

(to use the words of tirefryr) it is one of the best finess subs on the market

denim

1996blackmax wrote:

Someone here once asked me if I worked for SS . I am just a very satisfied customer .

:cool: :cool: :cool:

denim

Toxis wrote:

I just wish the IDMax would come in a 10"... but I might have to do an IDQ10 for my application.

I thought they are making a 10", or did I read wrong and they are makeing a 15"??

neomagus00

they have a 10" IDMAX, i dunno about a 15...

denim

neomagus00 wrote:

they have a 10" IDMAX, i dunno about a 15...

ok good, I had a brain **** there for a moment

MacLeod

That is an excellent point Toxis. If the W7 it the bane of subwoofers then why is it the one everybody else is comparing theirs to?

You dont become an industry standard setter becuase of "hype". If that were the case, RF would be the most sought after subs on the planet!

PoweredByDodge

max comes in 10 and 12 dual 4's and dual 2's -- was supposed to be an 8, but the demand was not high enough.

MacLeod

8's are a dying breed Im afraid. Thats too bad too, I think 8's can be badass.

Ive used several of them over the years mainly from MTX and JL Audio and think they rock. They can work in tiny enclosures (my MTX was in a .29!), handle a lot of power and put out good bass.

For modest systems I guarantee ya an 8 can more than handle the job.

Toxis

holy hell... I just looked into the IDmax not to long ago and they only showed a 12". Anyone have a hookup on these yet? I see they say anywhere from 200-1000w but how much power is actually needed to run them effectively? 500? 800? Just trying to gauge what size amp I'll need. I'd like to run a 10W7, but I might go the IDMax to save a little money. We shall see though.

MacLeod

Plus it would be cool to run something a little more rare.

PoweredByDodge

I used to run two IDmax 12's ...

Anything under 1,000 watts is wasting your time.

I found that 1200 - 1300 watts rms was ideal.

I used an Mtx 81000d (birth sheets at about 1250 x 1 at 12.5 volts, 1400 + at 14.4 volts) on each one.

I absolutely loved them.

Sealed 1.43 cubic feet PER sub, that includes the displacement of the woofer in a standard mount - 3/4 inch birch ply. I didn't use any bracing, but honestly, bracing would be a good idea.

They will blow your mind away.

Toxis

I might have to get about a 1000w or so but damn that's a lot of juice. Plus, I'm going for SQ with a decent amount of SPL.

So what you're saying is the Polk 500.1 won't be enough for it? I might have to go with a Diamond D6100.1. It'll do 1000w at 1 ohm but seriously, I'm not sure I want to go that low and it's only 500w at 2 ohm so might as well get the Polk. SQ > SPL Other recommendations?

MacLeod

First stop for me is usually MTX and this Thunder TA781 would do it for the price of that Diamond. Its rated at 1200 at 1 ohm and 800 at 2 but itll be more along the lines of 900 at 2 ohms which shoule be plenty for the ID.

This Alpine MRDM1005 is probably the one Id go with. 1000 watts at 2 ohms, CEA compliant and Ive always loved V12 amps. Plus its only $550, cheaper than the Diamond and the MTX.

PoweredByDodge

why not go with a dual 4 ohm voice coil idmax instead of a dual 2 ohm voice coil - then you can get an amp that does 1000 - 1200 x 1 at 2 ohms.

anything less than 1kw on a Max is a total waste of time, money, and wiring. The polk amp will not even touch it, unless you get two polk amps per sub - get dual 2 ohm coils then, and put one amp on each coil, then you'll get 1200 to the sub.

the max will do very well for sq if you feed it enough power... very very well.

Toxis

Well we sell MTX, Diamond and Polk at my shop (no Alpine or JL unfortunately) and out of the three, Diamond and Polk are my only considerations (seeing I've never been a big MTX fan and the new amps look retarded). My discount is HUGE on Diamond and pathetic on Polk. That's why I was thinking the Diamond.

neomagus00

if you get a huge diamond discount, have you looked at the d9 sub?

Toxis

No... haven't really thought about it. I know the D6's are stupid power hungry. I think I'll probably stick with my original plan of a JL 500/1 to run a pair of IDQ10's. Seeing they need small boxes, I could tuck them in my hatch (integra) without losing much/any room. I'd run a set of W3's but they need to big of a box.

MacLeod

I love Diamonds speakers, awesome. But Ive never been real crazy about their subs. Maybe I just havent heard them in the right installation.

Toxis

Yeah, I'm still considering the S600s' right now for my front stage. Should be nice off a JL 300/2.