Interesting comments on B&W speakers

F1nut

I've never heard a B&W speaker that I liked and this may help explain why.

Bennic caps (made in China) used in B&W Nautilus $2k-$8k

From the site of a audio expert, " But as for the caps...I will say this. The Bennic poly isn't worth the electricity it would take to grind them up in the garbage disposal. They really stink."

I read on another site (that I can't find now) the opinion of another "cap expert" who said the Bennic's are flat and lifeless. That's exactly what I hear from B&W speakers. It's nice to know that these "experts" and I share the same opinion.

audiobliss

You folks just amaze me with your incredibly discerning ear. I'll never hear that well!

RuSsMaN

We get it Jesse, you don't like B&W. What caps are in your speakers? Do you even know? How about your big MF?

'Someone on the internet said this....'

There are tons of glowing, professional reviews AND awards for various B&W speakers throughout their history. Cap expert, that's funny.

Garbage post, imo - almost troll-like.

gregure

You may not hear that well, but it isn't hard to hear that you can much better performance from much less expensive speakers. B&W are way overpriced, and more about the name than the quality. Personally I think Vienna Acoustics and Sonus Faber are much better speakers, and many of their towers can be had for half the price of the 800 series towers, which are really the only B&W's worth investigating at all. The 700/600 lines are just another speaker, nothing to call home about.

dorokusai

I demo'd a handful of B&W's with F1 and basically have the same opinion on their current series, to include the 800's. They just don't have much effect on me personally, tho' I knew immediately that Sonus Faber, for example, was a sound that I liked.

I will digress and say that I never said, "It must be the caps..." as that's just an excuse for an upgrade IMO. I'm an upgrade advocate, but gimme a break. Upgrades of internal components are LOW on the list of priorities for me personally for if it doesn't work the first round, next. The placebo effect is way too involved for these things.

Who cares, it's all subjective unless you've heard it yourself.

Audio sucks until you own it, then you have to decide whether it really sucks or kicks ****, period.

Demo's don't mean shite until your dog pisses on your speaker or somehow a useless nephew pokes a finger in your woofer.

F1nut

This is your troll speaking and I've got to say you're very perceptive young Russman, I don't like them. However, if you take notice I said, "may help explain why."

If memory serves, you sold all your B&W's.

Sonicaps in the CRS+'s, the same going in the 2.3TL's and Solen's going in the NHT's. MF, don't know........sounds damn fine though.:D

Toxis

Seriously? You honestly think it's the caps that make you not like them? What about driver design? Cabinet design? X-over design (not ONLY the cap)? Or the equipment you heard them on? Nope... it must be the cap.

RuSsMaN

Ed Zachry Toxis.

Like Jesse knew what he had, before someone ELSE upgraded it. Got any pics, details Jesse? I didn't know you had such extensive crossover work done.

What a joke. So lame, I don't even know why I'm posting here. I sold my HT B&W's, because I was done with HT, you were refinishing some P5's, that were headed down here - or did you not realize that?

Whatever, flavor of the month.

TroyD

Jesus, a wheel nearly took my cranium off.

BDT

RuSsMaN

Troy, it's hard to fathom, unless you are an SDA / MF slave, like some ****'s.

Fun times.

TroyD

I actually like a neutral speaker like the beemers.

I'd give my left nut for a pair of Nautilus 801's, actually. Hey if we all liked the same things, life would be boring. However, I will say while I don't know who the author of that sentiment is; he's welcome to his opinion although with the # of speakers that B&W sells and the particular popularity of the Naut series, I doubt that the folks at B&W are terribly concerned.

I don't know about the caps, and could care less however, I will say that given the rep that B&W has for attention to detail.....well, let's just say I'd give B&W the benefit of the doubt.

BDT

thehaens@cox.net

This is like watching a heavyweight championship fight...

Carry on F1 and Russ...

This could get amusing...."I'll show you my X-over, if you show me yours.......I got to go to sleep now....0445 wakeup call, but believe me I'll check back on this thread for some amusement tomorrow...

sdh

F1nut

Russ, you shouldn't post while drunk, it's not very becoming. You want to insult me, fine have at it, but you're the joke here. :rolleyes:

Before and after shots, what details would you like to know? How about the fact I did circuit board repairs before you were born.........that good enough? BTW, the cap at the top right corner is suppose to be a 40uF, but the largest value that Sonicap sells is a 30uF, so I put a 10uF under the board. I also upgraded the resistor, polyswitch, silver mica and the binding posts.

As for the P5's.......yep, I know where they are suppose to end up. "Were refinishing some P5's" being the operative words.

And the wheels go round and round.......


Toxis, please note that I never said that it was the caps, I said that the opinions of a few others may help explain why I don't like the sound of B&W speakers.

F1nut

Pic was too big.

F1nut

Here ya go, both of them.

Willow

Originally posted by F1nut
Russ, you shouldn't post while drunk, it's not very becoming. You want to insult me, fine have at it, but you're the joke here. :rolleyes:



Maybe that explains the last couple days !!

jdhdiggs

I wonder if B&W intentionally did that selection as that was the sound they wanted? After all, one persons flat and lifeless is anothers perfectly neutral and accurate.

Early B.

Hey F1nut -- luv those crossover upgrades! I'm sure they make a notable difference in sound quality.

Most speakers use crappy parts, no matter how "high end" they appear to be. Bennic or similar quality caps are pretty much the "standard" in speakers. If you can yank them out, go for it. Toss the sand cast resistors, too.

reeltrouble1

audio discussion

Oustanding!!! Might actually learn a few things from the Guru's if paying attention past the rhetoric. And yea, its Polk Forum so the grand daddy of Polk is the SDA lineup.

Dont see it as being a slave to SDA, just need to really do your time in the woodshed with them, then as mentioned time comes to let go, but your better for the experience, when its your time is an individual thing.

So I am officially changing the name of the Reel Tone Rig to the WoodShed Rig, subject to change/upgrade at any time. A sort of continually evolving thing. See ya in the Shed.


RT1

TroyD

Originally posted by jdhdiggs
I wonder if B&W intentionally did that selection as that was the sound they wanted? After all, one persons flat and lifeless is anothers perfectly neutral and accurate.

IMO, after watching the B&W DVD and everything that I've read about B&W, the Nautilus series, which has been evolving for many years from the Matrix series and beyond, the sound of those speakers and I'd say just about every detail is exactly as they want it.

BDT

TroyD

Also, on the cheapie parts......

One thing to remember, I forget who it was that was telling this to me, is that a manufacturer also has to take into consideration parts availability. Premium parts, as I was told, are not always available in the numbers required and so forth to meet demand.

Sometimes, it's just a matter of trying to squeeze out a few bucks savings per unit......mulitplied by how many units produced to make them a little more profitable.

Life is about tradeoffs sometimes.....and until we all hit the lotto, we are all dealing with gear that have tradeoffs of sorts.

BDT

ND13

[/QUOTE]
originally posted by TroyD
Hey if we all liked the same things, life would be boring.
[/QUOTE]

Different strokes for different folks.

Hey some people even like Bose, not me, but someone must or they wouldn't sell so many friggin cubes.

I personally don't care for the B&Ws sound, either , but I'm not going to piss on someone elses opinions. That's what's so nice about variety. Just like cars, there's an **** for every seat, with speakers, there's an ear for every brand.

madmax

I auditioned their $5K+ model a few years ago. It was a huge box with a smaller box in the middle and then a tweeter on top. I forget the model. They were powered with a very nice ML equipment. I listened for about 30 minutes because the store was pretty much empty and the salesman was into it. I could tell they were good quality but I kept thinking how much more I enjoyed my 1.2's with my lowly tube amps. I just couldn't imagine walking out of there with equipment of that cost range that I simply didn't enjoy. To each their own but I have to think either it sounds real or it doesn't and whether you can live with the quirks you hear or not.
madmax

hotwheelman

Originally posted by TroyD
Jesus, a wheel nearly took my cranium off.

BDT

I felt the breeze off of that one bro.:eek:

Toxis

Originally posted by jdhdiggs
I wonder if B&W intentionally did that selection as that was the sound they wanted? After all, one persons flat and lifeless is anothers perfectly neutral and accurate.

you're exactly right. You have to remember, these are european speakers and typically, they're very neutral sounding. That's how they like them over there...

organ

Sorry for the de-rail but just wondering how much of a difference caps in the x-over can make?

As for B&W, I like the sound. They are nautral like Troy said and I've heard people call them 'dry'. But they sound great to me. Not the type of speaker I'd want for blasting loud music though. Very accurate and detailed.

Maurice

Early B.

Sorry for the de-rail but just wondering how much of a difference caps in the x-over can make?

Made a big difference when I upgraded the crossovers in my Norhs a few weeks ago. Best tweak I've done so far. I used Sonicaps, too.

Think about it. The biggest difference between a low end component and a high end one are the quality of the parts. Change the parts and you're swimming in high end waters.

gidrah

I'm satisfied with my CDM-2se. I prefer to call the sound smooth over lifeless. Maybe someday I'll actively biamp them but I'm in no rush.

mantis

I don't understand it. I actually agree with Russ and Troy on this.
Different times or something....

Anyway B&W makes killer speakers. But as said not for everyone. I perfer Dynaudio over B&W but thats just me. I feel that B&W is suited better for certain types of music and lacks on others. I have expressed this in the past so most of you know what I'm talking about.

Going into the speaker to figure out why one doesn't like the sound, well thats not something I'm willing to do , but if F1nut wants to go there, thats his thing.

I don't however see the need to bash any gear. I used to bash a few brands in the past but found a peace with all that. Again like said every speaker has a home, Bose , KLH , Carver Amazings , DQ10's , SDA's , LSI whatever floats your boat.

I like what I like , do you know what you like?

Dan

gregure

I agree that B&W cheaps out on some of their internal parts, as well as being hyped up for what they offer.
Take, for instance, a comparison between the new B&W 800 towers, with two 10" paper cone woofers, with a freq range rated to 32 Hz, and the new Vienna Acoustics Beethoven Baby Grand tower, which utilizes two 6" spider cones, and is rated down to 30 Hz. The Vienna Baby Grands are $3700/pr and have better craftsmanship and a more efficient design. I don't even want to guess what the 800's cost, but I'm willing to bet the Viennas are better speakers. Additionally, when Vienna utilizes 2 10" woofers in the Mahler, their design is capable of a strong response down to 20 Hz. Those are $10,000/pr, probably around the same price as the 800's.

audiobliss

Originally posted by mantis
I don't however see the need to bash any gear. I used to bash a few brands in the past but found a peace with all that. Again like said every speaker has a home, Bose , KLH , Carver Amazings , DQ10's , SDA's , LSI whatever floats your boat.

I like what I like , do you know what you like?

Dan

Amen