RT800i's sound muddy!

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Comments

  • DarqueKnightDarqueKnight Posts: 6,492
    edited April 2002
    The only concession to fashion when standing the CS-245i's on end is that the "Polk Audio" emblem on the speaker grill is oriented sideways.

    Dr. Spec,

    The "Polk Audio" emblem peels right off. I have removed the Polk emblems from all my speakers.
    "So hot it burns Mice!"~DK
    "Polk SDA-SRSs are hopelessly out of date both sonically and technologically... I see no value whatsoever in older SDA speakers."~Audio Asylum Member
    "Knowledge, without understanding, is a path to failure."~DK
    "Those who irrationally rail against something or someone that is no threat to them, actually desire (or desire to be like) the thing or person they are railing against."~DK
  • rwrvpemrwrvpem Posts: 32
    edited April 2002
    I had a set of RT 600i's hooked to my Sony DE-945 and had the same problem with slightly muddy sound. I actually ended up pulling the speakers as far from the walls as my home theater room would allow. I also cut the bass down on the receiver and bumped up the treble a tad. I tried a different Sony receiver and the sound was even worse. (This receiver was only 50 watts per channel). I think your Sony is running out of legs!
    I have since moved up to RT 2000i's. I have the sub volume down quite a bit still to cut the muddy sound. I am looking into either a Denon 4802 or a 3802 (depends on my cash situation) since a friend with the same speakers and a Denon receiver had a fantastic sounding system with basically the same room setup. I do think there is something with the Sony power, at least on their consumer products. (Not sure about ES equipment.)

    Hope this helps!

    Rick :rolleyes:
  • Dr. SpecDr. Spec Posts: 3,780
    edited April 2002
    Originally posted by raife1


    Dr. Spec,

    The "Polk Audio" emblem peels right off. I have removed the Polk emblems from all my speakers.

    Thanks! I'll have a look see - at first blush it looked like part of the injection molded grill frame. If it peels off, I'll reglue it on the bottom! You rule.
    "What we do in life echoes in eternity"

    Ed Mullen ([email protected])
    Director - Technology and Customer Service
    SVS
  • morleymorley Posts: 9
    edited April 2002
    Great advice all…

    I especially like the Dean gave on the upgrade from bookshelf to floor speakers. I hadn’t thought about that one. I have made adjustments but I’m getting the feeling that an receiver upgrade is in the works. Stereophile Guide to HT give the Outlaw a recommended component rating. It looks like a great receiver for the price but at 65 wpc I don’t think it would power the Polks very well. Anybody have an Outlaw that they use with their Polks? I’m thinking about getting one.

    Also, can you folks recommend any online places to buy good quality components? Crutchfield is good but you have to pay retail. Any suggestions is appreciated.

    Morley
  • shackshack Posts: 11,284
    edited April 2002
    morley - Don't let the 65W of the Outlaw fool you. It is a very conservatively rated receiver. It is 65W rated with all 6 channels driven. I think you will find it will power your speakers very well. And if later you need more, it has all channel pre-outs so you can ad a separate amp for even more power. I would have bought the Outlaw in a hearbeat if it had PLII. Due to a very large VHS collection PLII was a must when I bought my reciever so I went with Denon.
    "Just because you’re offended doesn’t mean you’re right." - Ricky Gervais

    "For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible." - Stuart Chase

    "Consistency requires you to be as ignorant today as you were a year ago." - Bernard Berenson
  • juice21juice21 Posts: 1,866
    edited April 2002
    the 1050 reciever is actually rated @ 65W/channel three channels driven. not to belittle the outlaw, cause i have heard great things about this rec. and that the 65W is conservative. you can read about the outlaw's reasoning on this rating on their FAQ page, just click on 'the model 1050 reciever'
    ...the fOrce is strong with this one.
  • DarqueKnightDarqueKnight Posts: 6,492
    edited April 2002
    Thanks! I'll have a look see - at first blush it looked like part of the injection molded grill frame. If it peels off, I'll reglue it on the bottom! You rule.

    Dr. Spec, I stand corrected. The "Polk" emblem on the CS 245i is part of the grille frame. I thought the emblem was a thin plastic oval disc glued to the grille, (like for example the RT 55i and RT 35i). It might come off, but might leave an ugly hole. :mad:

    Email polk customer service to see if the emblem is easily removable without damaging the appearance of the speaker.
    "So hot it burns Mice!"~DK
    "Polk SDA-SRSs are hopelessly out of date both sonically and technologically... I see no value whatsoever in older SDA speakers."~Audio Asylum Member
    "Knowledge, without understanding, is a path to failure."~DK
    "Those who irrationally rail against something or someone that is no threat to them, actually desire (or desire to be like) the thing or person they are railing against."~DK
  • Ron-PRon-P Spaceman Spiff Posts: 8,511
    edited April 2002
    If it has not been said yet, put spikes on the 800s if they do not have any and set them atop a piece of slate. Disconnecting them from the floor will tighten things up. Also, you need a high current amp/receiver. I have a Marantz SR5000 pushing my RT55s, at 75 wpc this thing blows the doors off my 125wpc Sony.


    Peace Out~:D
    If...
    Ron dislikes a film = go out and buy it.
    Ron loves a film = don't even rent.
  • danger boydanger boy Posts: 15,888
    edited April 2002
    Morely,

    you may want to look for a receiver with a bit more umph to it. My Marantz SR5000 is rated at 70wpc and it is a little underpowered. I just added two mono block Marantz 125wpc amps to the front RT800i's and they loved the increase in power.

    I am not familiar with Outlaw receivers.. but if they are built similar to Marantz with the similar wpc.. you may not be happy with it. Adding a second amp is always possible.. but why spend the extra on a costly amp, when you can get adequite power from a higher powered high current receiver.

    decisions, decisions.. but that's one of the fun parts of home theater.
    PolkFest 2012, who's going>?
    Vancouver, Canada Sept 30th, 2012 - Madonna concert :cheesygrin:
  • rwrvpemrwrvpem Posts: 32
    edited April 2002
    Something else you may want to look into is an AC line conditioner like the ones from Monster Power, Panamax, or Richard Gray's Power Company ($$$$$). I added a monster power HTS 3500 to my system a short time ago and it did help my Sony DE945 sound better. I am still looking at Dennon receivers, but for the short term, this helped all of my components (the receiver runs cooler too. The 945's are notorious for running hot.)

    Something else to try is a powered sub if you don't have one. This will free up some of the receiver's power and make the upper bass, mids and treble sound clearer.

    Good Luck!!
    :D
  • dean/klipscheaddean/klipschead Polkie Wannabe Posts: 295
    edited April 2002
    ...all watts are not created equal. I consider it an almost worthless spec. Instead, look at the total amperage the unit is able to put out. This is much more indicative of whether the unit has any balls or not.

    An Outlaw with 65 watts will have more power than a cheapy Sony with 125 watts -- and sound worlds better to boot.
    Dean
    Quicksilver M-60 monoblocks - JM 200 Peach Linestage - Sony DVP-S9000ES - '03 modified Klipschorns

    "I'm sure it's better than it sounds."-- Mark Twain, when asked what he thought about Wagner's music
  • STUFFMDSTUFFMD Posts: 381
    edited April 2002
    JUST RECENTLY PURCHASED THE 800I'S AND WAS RUNNING OFF THE SONY 575, WAS VERY DISAPPOINTED IN THE SOUND, EVEN AFTER SEVERAL SPEAKER PLACEMENTS,EVEN REALIZED WAS HAVING CLIPPING PROBLEMS WITH THE AMP.
    MADE THE DECISION TO PURCHASE A NEW RECIEVER. GOT AN ONKYO 797, AND I CAN'T BELIEVE THE DIFFERENCE IN CLAIRITY AND SOUNDSTAGE, LIKE THE EARLIER RESPONSE, I THINK POLK JUST DIDN'T LIKE THE SONY AMPS, BECAUSE MY JBL'S SOUNDED FINE, BUT WE ALSO SHOULD REMEMBER POLK IS A MORE PERCISE INSTRUMENT.........MY SUGGESTION WOULD BE TO UPGRADE YOUR RECIEVER, I DON'T THINK YOU WILL BE DISAPPOINTED.
    Your system is only as good as your weakest component...!

    OnkyoTX-DS 797
    NAD C270/ Mains
    Mains: LSI9's
    Center: Cs400i /Biwired
    Rear: Fx300i
    Rear Center:CS 245i
    Dvd: Onkyo DVS 555
    Vision RCA 36" Premiere Series
    Bang & Olfsen RX Turntable
    Psw 350 Front/Psw 202 rear
    Kimber Cable 4TC Mains HF
    Monster Originals/Center
    Kimber Interconnects
    Monster XP Everywhere else
    PS2/Gamecube
  • Dr. SpecDr. Spec Posts: 3,780
    edited April 2002
    Many cheaper receivers are rated for their wattage at 40-20K instead of the more usual 20-20K. Avoid any such receiver like the plague.

    Being able to deliver the full rated wattage at 20Hz is one indication of current capability. The other is total dynamic headroom - a 3db TDH rating would indicate the amp's capable of doubling its power output for brief periods of time without clipping.

    It's tough to get instantaneous current capability ratings from the manufacturers anymore - many of them are too embarrassed to print it. I still own a Harmon Kardon 100 WPC amp with a 3.5db TDH and that is capable of passing 60 amps!!! That bad boy never gave up the ghost no matter how hard we pushed it. Sadly, I can't use it for HT, since it is not capable of running in 5.1 mode.

    Also, I've seen cheater spec sheets showing a substantial drop in power for all channels when running in 5.1 mode as opposed to stereo mode. I've also seen cheater specs for THD given at one frequency instead of across the entire spectrum.

    Not all receivers are created equal!! If you find a receiver that is rated for 100 WPC from 20-20K with less than 0.1% THD across the board, and a TDH of at least 2 db - for ALL five channels during 5.1 playback, it should have plenty of guts to drive most systems without running out of steam.

    Good luck............

    Spec
    "What we do in life echoes in eternity"

    Ed Mullen ([email protected])
    Director - Technology and Customer Service
    SVS
  • danger boydanger boy Posts: 15,888
    edited April 2002
    I've seen this term used several times on here.. but what exactly is clipping? and that is caused by??
    PolkFest 2012, who's going>?
    Vancouver, Canada Sept 30th, 2012 - Madonna concert :cheesygrin:
  • STUFFMDSTUFFMD Posts: 381
    edited April 2002
    Originally posted by danger boy
    I've seen this term used several times on here.. but what exactly is clipping? and that is caused by??
    Your system is only as good as your weakest component...!

    OnkyoTX-DS 797
    NAD C270/ Mains
    Mains: LSI9's
    Center: Cs400i /Biwired
    Rear: Fx300i
    Rear Center:CS 245i
    Dvd: Onkyo DVS 555
    Vision RCA 36" Premiere Series
    Bang & Olfsen RX Turntable
    Psw 350 Front/Psw 202 rear
    Kimber Cable 4TC Mains HF
    Monster Originals/Center
    Kimber Interconnects
    Monster XP Everywhere else
    PS2/Gamecube
  • STUFFMDSTUFFMD Posts: 381
    edited April 2002
    Originally posted by danger boy
    I've seen this term used several times on here.. but what exactly is clipping? and that is caused by??
    HELLO DANGER BOY,
    CLIPPING IN MY OWN LAYMANS TERMS IS THE INABILITY OF AN AMPLIFIER TO GIVE POWER NEEDS WHEN NECESSARY IN CERTIAN FREQUENCY RANGES, USUALLY AT MODERATE TO HIGHER VOLUMES.USUALLY NOTICED IN THE MID TO BASE FREQUENCIES, CAUSING A CLICKING OR POPPING IN YOUR SPEAKERS KNOWN AS CLIPPING.SOUNDS LIKE A BLOWN VOICE COIL IF YOU HAVE EVER BLOWN A PAIR OF SPEAKERS. IN MY CASE WHEN I WAS USING THE SONY, WHEN I TURNED MY EQ UP IN CERTAIN FREQUENCIES I WAS GETTING A POPPING AND CLICKING NOISE IN MY SPEAKERS. THIS NOISE CAN CAUSE DAMAGE AND BLISTERING OF THE SPEAKER IF PROLONGED.SINCE I UPGRADED TO AN ONKYO RECIEVER I HAVE NOT NOTICED ANY CLIPPING. HOW TECHNICALLY CORRECT MY DEFINITION IS IS QUESTIONABLE, BUT THAT'S WHAT I KNOW OF IT.
    STUFFMD
    Your system is only as good as your weakest component...!

    OnkyoTX-DS 797
    NAD C270/ Mains
    Mains: LSI9's
    Center: Cs400i /Biwired
    Rear: Fx300i
    Rear Center:CS 245i
    Dvd: Onkyo DVS 555
    Vision RCA 36" Premiere Series
    Bang & Olfsen RX Turntable
    Psw 350 Front/Psw 202 rear
    Kimber Cable 4TC Mains HF
    Monster Originals/Center
    Kimber Interconnects
    Monster XP Everywhere else
    PS2/Gamecube
  • jmierzurjmierzur Registered User Posts: 489
    edited April 2002
  • lax01lax01 Posts: 496
    edited April 2002
    Hey STUFFMD, as much as I love reading threads with all caps, I would appreciate it if you wrote normally. Thanks. I am guessing that other people are with me on this one. Just common courtesy. :)

    BTW, this is not a personal attack because I believe you are very informative and a great addition to this forum. Keep up the good work (just not in caps). :)
    J B
  • juice21juice21 Posts: 1,866
    edited April 2002
    yeah, caps means you're yelling in the forum world (in case you didn't know). not to bust your balls or anything, just so you know. with that said...

    ...welcome to the forum...:D

    glad to have you on board.
    ...the fOrce is strong with this one.
  • danger boydanger boy Posts: 15,888
    edited April 2002
    thanks Stuffmd. I think sometimes I hear a popping sound coming from my PSW350 sub. like on the scene in the Matrix when the helicopter hits the building.. it kinda pops.. not sure if that is the 10" sub just reaching it's limit or just moving a lot of air.. but I do notice it.
    PolkFest 2012, who's going>?
    Vancouver, Canada Sept 30th, 2012 - Madonna concert :cheesygrin:
  • Dr. SpecDr. Spec Posts: 3,780
    edited April 2002
    Regarding clipping.

    If you were to electroncially graph the output from an amplifier for frequency and wattage, the graph would look like a bunch of sinusoidal peaks and valleys. If you push an amplifier beyond it's limits, the tips of the peaks and valley's are "clipped off" and look flat, indicating that the amp cannot deliver the requested wattage at that frequency. Hence the term "clipping".

    This type of distorted output is extremely damaging to speakers, especially tweeters. Feeding a tweeter a clipped signal will destroy it in short order. The overwhelming majority of speakers are blown by underpowered amps being pushed into clipping mode than by overpowered amps running clean.

    Clipped signals sound distorted and "compressed" - it's easily to recognize once you've heard it before.

    Spec
    "What we do in life echoes in eternity"

    Ed Mullen ([email protected])
    Director - Technology and Customer Service
    SVS
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