i have new found respect for toyota

polksda

As vehicles get more complex, there os more potential for things to go wrong. And repairs are more expensive... parts are disposable rather than repairable. You can't "overhaul the carburetor" any more.

I only have 2 data points in the modern era (cars built after 1990). I purchased a 1995 GMC Sonoma pickup new back in 1995. I'm meticulous about getting the routine maintenance done on schedule. Nevertheless, by the time 2003 rolled around, even though I only had 55K miles on it, I was looking at both an engine job and replacing the transmission. After having recently dropped $1200 in other repairs, I cried "Uncle!"

My current vehicle, a 2003 Pontiac Grand Am GT1, has roughly 21K miles on it. Everything is behaving itself thus far, although I did need a new alternator at about 14K miles (covered under warranty).

I'm one of those that shells out for extended bumper-to-bumper warranties. Even though the statistics may not bear it out, I want the presence of mind. With the low interest rates, I'd rather spend $900 spread out over the life of the loan for a 7-70 bumper-to-bumper warranty, than hit an unanticipated $500+ repair (or several) down the line.

It's real easy to get real expensive in a hurry with automotive repairs; diagnosing an electrical problem can get hella ridiculous before any actual repairwork is even done.

I notice that many manufacturers are now including 5-year, 60,000 bumper-to-bumper warranties in the price of the vehicle, in addition to 10-year, 100,000 mile drive train warranties.

To echo what an earlier poster mentioned, if I were buying today I would seriously be considering a Hyundai. The Sonata is a very nice sedan. Also, the Hyundai of today is NOT the oft-ridiculed company of the mid-1990s. They produce some good automobiles now...

disneyjoe7

So even a Die Hard GM buyer is rethinking car buying? With GM money troubles I don't think they would improve their parts quality. Let's face it they build cars to sell you parts later. Toyota / Honda builds cars to show your neighbor that it still running so they in return want to buy that car also. Smart on their end, sorry I don't think GM ever got it, is all in what the profit is on the sale. This is coming from someone how would give his left nut for a 1964 - 65 Pontiac Grand Prix.

brettw22

The latest GM promo's are that every customer can buy their cars at their employee purchase price. If it's anything like Nissan or Ford's (I have uncles that have worked at each), then it's something like only 3-5% over cost.

If that's not a sign that they're DYING for customers, don't know what is.

disneyjoe7

Ever noticed that Toyota / Honda never offered a steep drop in pricing and or financing? That should be telling you something.

Ricardo

Originally posted by disneyjoe7
Ever noticed that Toyota / Honda never offered a steep drop in pricing and or financing? That should be telling you something.

Yes...that they don't produce more cars than what they know they can sell ....like other makers..

Jstas

Originally posted by HTrookie
Yes...that they don't produce more cars than what they know they can sell ....like other makers..

That's not planned. They can't make the numbers that they could sell. They do not have the infrastructure in place. If you want to talk about mass manufacturing techniques, Ford and GM are who to talk to. Pick either one and look at the numbers of vehicles and other products they produce in total every year. That includes the heavy equipment, large commercial trucks and so on and so forth. Keep in mnd that GM and Ford both have large engine manufacturing operations in both gas and diesel for all kinds of applications. Those two out produce every other marque by at least 3 fold every year. It is a marvel that with that kind of infrastructure and overhead they remain profitable.



As far as Lexus being threatened by Ford, look againl. Lincoln has been gaining market share with the LS. Granted, it's not necessarily a speedy gain but every year, the numbers go up. Lincoln is also releasing a couple of new SUV's that have met rave reviews and there are two new vehicles planned to replace the Continental and add a vehicle to the ranks. If they can fire off a winner like the LS again, Lexus is indeed threatened by Lincoln which is, of course, a wholly owned Ford subsidy.


You had better watch Chrysler too. With the success of the 300 and the SRT models coming out of thier ears, that HEMI powered 300 convertible is going to be tough for the importers to beat. Seems the Big 3 finally got thier heads out of thier asses and are offering vehicles people have been BEGGING to buy. Hell, love it or hate it, that new Mustang won't stay on the lot. They can't make them fast enough. GM needs to get on the stick and make teh GTO worth while and bring back the Camaro. The GTO is getting it's **** kicked by the Mustang which is doing it for almost 10 grand cheaper. And GM wonders why they can't move the GTO's to save thier lives.

PolkThug

Originally posted by Jstas
Hell, love it or hate it, that new Mustang won't stay on the lot. They can't make them fast enough. GM needs to get on the stick and make teh GTO worth while and bring back the Camaro. The GTO is getting it's **** kicked by the Mustang which is doing it for almost 10 grand cheaper. And GM wonders why they can't move the GTO's to save thier lives.

Just ordered my '06 Mustang GT yesterday. Sold my '02 BMW328 so I could get a Ford!

ND13

The new 'Stang KICKS ALOT OF ****..... Can't wait for the 400+ hp
Cobra to arrive.

PhantomOG

GM doing real well...

Too much capacity?

Wagoner, who is also chairman of GM, did not offer more details other than to say the troubled automaker needs to cut capacity by the end of 2008.

Unions...

GM's UAW contract essentially forces it to pay union employees during the life of the contract even if hourly workers are laid off and their plants are closed. But those protections only run through September 2007, when the current four-year pact with the union ends.

Danny Tse

Originally posted by disneyjoe7
Ever noticed that Toyota / Honda never offered a steep drop in pricing and or financing? That should be telling you something.

I am not sure whether this is nationwide or just limited to here in Northern California, but Toyota does offer 0% financing on certain cars and trucks. July 4th weekend should be the next sales event.

Honda doesn't offer 0% financing, but it does offer low percentage financing like 1.9%, 2.9% or 3.9%, dependent on length of contract. On the other hand, I believe Honda's warranty is still 3 years/36K miles and they don't need to compete based on length of warranty.

Ricardo

Here is one for Ford...

http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=F&t=5y

Don't want to start a financial discussion, but if it was my money, I would not like to be a GM or Ford stockholder...

My earlier comment referred to the fact that they over produce just to try to keep costs lower...cannot afford to have those huge overheads idle...but then there is not enough demand and they need to offer cashbacks and others..

Just my ignorant guess...

MSALLA

Originally posted by ND13
The new 'Stang KICKS ALOT OF ****..... Can't wait for the 400+ hp
Cobra to arrive.

It's not. You can wait for the Shelby GT500!!!!!!!!!!!! It's real and coming with something around 500 horse.
I told the wife to expect one the day after release. The kids will have to ride in the expedition.
Yes I will trade my Camaro in, but I will just have to lern to deal.

Jstas

Not true, the Mustang Cobra has not been discontinued. They wanted to put out the GT500 to showcase the found-again relationship with Carrol Shelby. There will be a series of high performance Mustangs to fill the gap between the Mustang GT and the Shelby GT500. We will see several different Mustangs like the Bulitt model and the Mach 1 which very well may be seen on showroom floors again. We may even see the likes of a BOSS Mustang again. The Cobra is not dead though, it just hasn't been decided yet. If it does come back, it will be a step below the GT500. Oh and the Lightning isn't dead yet either. They were looking at pushing back the date because they had to much to do with the Mustang and several other projects. We are looking at probably 2008 for the new Lightning to hit the streets. If it does, it may have a different power plant under the hood. And that info comes directly from the SVT department head. Being a member of the SVTOA, I get to talk with these people on quite a few occassions. Big things are coming from Ford and SVT. Remain patient and you will be pleased.

PolkThug

Jstas, is this name incorrect?

2007 Ford Shelby Cobra GT500

Jstas

Yeah, important part there is "GT500". The SVT moniker will no longer be associated with Mustangs but it is not going away. There will most likely be a Ford Shelby Cobra with the 32 valve 4.6L supercharged V8 and probably putting out about 400-425 horses. Just because the GT500 was the first released doesn't mean it is the last. In fact, I would not be surprised to see the GT500 built just to homologate the car for racing. Hell, you may even see GT's on the track at LeMans again soon.

MSALLA

All I know is they are talking about horsepower in the range of 500 for a price in the area of 40,000.00. I'm sold. Plus it has old Carroll's seal of approval (his company is not doing any actual work on the building of the car) and I think I must have one.

Jstas

That's because Shelby American is busy building this:

ND13

Originally posted by Jstas
That's because Shelby American is busy building this:

SWEEET!!!! V-10 to boot.

aaharvel

"As far as Lexus being threatened by Ford, look againl. Lincoln has been gaining market share with the LS..."


Whatever. Lincoln isn't even posing as a threat to Caddy, dude. Lincoln is the #6 luxury brand in the U.S. Lexus is #1.
The Navigator is Lincoln's biggest seller now, by far. The LS dropped off the sales map just 2 years after it's debut.

"Lincoln reports that LS sales have been declining since calendar 2000, and buyers, while younger than the Lincoln Town Car crowd, have been in their early 50s."
http://autos.msn.com/research/vip/job.aspx?modelid=11221&src=GBT

Not to mention Lincoln is near the bottom of reliability woes, re-calls, dealer and factory incentives just to move their products. Lincoln is also one of the worst for re-sale value of ANY brand.

Incentives & Rebates + Poor re-sale value = no one's buying.

"This is a great American marque that has floundered," says Matt Stone, executive editor of Motor Trend magazine."
http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2003-07-02-lincoln_x.htm

I hope you're not a Lincoln buyer. IF you are, sorry.