i have new found respect for toyota

exalted512

this is one of the coolest things ive ever seen. they take an old toyota truck with over 200k on it. they put it in the ocean where its not visible for over 5 hours, light it on fire, knock it around a few times with a wrecking ball, and finally put it on top of a 250' building that was being demolished, at the end of the video it started right back up. the truck was so badly demolished the frame was cracked and the body panels were actually holding the frame together...holy crap...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/topgear/prog28/toyota.shtml
-Cody

Airplay355

Damn...

swerve

heh.. cool i guess

brettw22

Pretty bizaare, but even a car that runs isn't worth squat with all the issues that thing has....

Unless they've done it with other cars to prove otherwise, I wouldn't think that's too impossible to do with any vehicle with a subframe.....

Mazeroth

Good for General Motors!

janmike

GM needs good things going their way.

Jstas

Originally posted by brettw22
Unless they've done it with other cars to prove otherwise, I wouldn't think that's too impossible to do with any vehicle with a subframe.....

Seems to me that a car with a sub-frame would break in half when subjected to that. Most cars with unibodies have sub-frames which are merely a set of rails that get bolted to the unibody so there is a place to mount the suspension and drivetrain. Sub-frames are needed in unibody cars because the frame of the car is integrated into the body and does not have the strength to hold the engine and drivetrain and suspension and still resist the torsional forces that regular driving induces on the structure.

Pretty much all pickup trucks like that Hilux are built body-on-frame with two rails running the length of the vehicle. It's a full frame and it is much stronger than a unibody frame style. It also means it is heavier.

But I agree with you, if the car/truck is undriveable then even if it still runs, it isn't worth crap.

brettw22

I actually did mean full frame.....said the wrong thing.....but ya.

faster100

yeah, beating a body to hell doesnt make a engine break.. back when i was messing with junkers and swapping motors and trans.. we held the gas to the floor in a monza we were taking the trans out of... just to see if it would blow.. it heated up and stopped, after it cooled it started back up.. you can really beat a car new or old to death before it stops working.. grant it it may not drive as smooth but most likely will still start...

exalted512

well being submerged in sea water for 5 hours is a pretty big deal if you ask me, especially if they only had basic tools to fix it. But yea, I understand your point, but it still is quite a feat in my book...
-Cody

venomclan

It is a Toyota right? Why did a poster mention GM?

If it is a Toyota it does not surprise me. They are one of the best automobile makers in the world. Gm can't shine thier shoes.
Venom

AsSiMiLaTeD

Aren't GM and Toyota working on a Fuel Cell engine together???

Mazeroth

The reason I said that is because GM owns over 40% of Toyota and produces a few of their cars that are sold all around the world. My father works for GM and his plant used to produce the Toyota "Cavalier" that they sold outside of the US. The Pontiac Vibe is a Toyota Matrix. The Toyota Tunda is built on the same line as the Chevy Silverado. GM, I mean Toyota, is now building a plant in San Antonio to build them.

You guys have to trust me on this. They are the same company. My father has worked there for 36 years and the stories and documents he brings home outline it all.

brettw22

Well hopefully whomever they've got designing GM vehicles stays the hell outta the the Toyota fleet.

venomclan

Thanks for the info Maze but I find it hard to beleive. I used to work for GM also. GM and Toyota have had some joint entures in the past, Chevy Prizm and Toyota Corolla were the same, but the other models you mentioned are not the same. No offense to your dad. Toyota is the most successful auto maker in the world, not the biggest, but the best.

I am in the marine industry and in meetings they use Toyota as our guide to success. Honda also makes engines for GM, the Saturn Vue has a 6 cylinder and Tranny from Honda.

Most GM vehicles are sold as fleet to car rental companies and never make it to consumers. If Toyota and GM vehicles are the same, why do GM cars fall apart all the time when toyota vehicles last forever. Again no offense to your family. I used to work for GM and have owned a lot of GM vehicles.
Venom

MacLeod

Some people are never impressed!

I myself find this most impressive! Especially that they drive it into the room at the end of the show!

But one thing to consider is this one is a diesel which are inherently indestructible.

Danny Tse

Great!! Just great!! Just as I am putting the "For Sale by Owner" sign on my 1997 (red) Toyota Tacoma pickup*.....now I feel guilty.

*this truck is damn near indestructible as well.

Actually, Toyota and GM have a joint-venture factory down the highway from where I live.....NUMMI (New United Motors Manufacturing Inc.). This is where they manufacturer Toyota Tacoma and Toyota Corolla. Don't know if they are currently making any GM models though. The plant used to be a wholly-owned GM plant.

trubluluc

that's japanese for
"one hell of a good ride".

AsSiMiLaTeD

...whatever guys...you all know Toyota are pieces of ****

time to go change the oil in my 4Runner....:D

disneyjoe7

Originally posted by Danny Tse

Actually, Toyota and GM have a joint-venture factory down the highway from where I live.....NUMMI (New United Motors Manufacturing Inc.). This is where they manufacturer Toyota Tacoma and Toyota Corolla. Don't know if they are currently making any GM models though. The plant used to be a wholly-owned GM plant.

That's sad given my feeling that GM makes **** / Toyota makes great cars / trucks. So **** and Cream mixed together. :eek:

Danny Tse

Originally posted by disneyjoe7
That's sad given my feeling that GM makes **** / Toyota makes great cars / trucks. So **** and Cream mixed together. :eek:

The Toyota's that are produced at the NUMMI plant are typical of Toyota quality....rock solid.

venomclan

Joint ventures are one thing, GM owning over 40% of Toyota is just unimaginable.

Toyota & crap is also unimaginable.

bknauss

Originally posted by trubluluc
that's japanese for
"one hell of a good ride".

I thought it was Japanese for
"one hell of a fugly car that could only appeal to your mother, but great reliability anyway"

Jstas

Well honestly, if you actually look at the numbers, Toyotas are no more reliable than other cars out there. There are just less of them. Because of that, it means that less lemons get to the consumer because statistically, there are less lemons per production unit at Toyota than say GM.

What I am saying is that GM will outproduce Toyota by a wide margin. For nice, easy examples, we will use a 10:1 ratio of GM:Toyota. Granted, the margin is considerably smaller in real world numbers but for the point I am trying to illustrate, this will do.

Now, if GM produces 100 vehicles then, for our example, Toyota will produce 10. If there is a given error rate of 10%, that means that GM will have 10 lemons on its lots while Toyota only has 1. What this means is that for every GM customer, 1 in 10 will be disatisfied. But wait, the same goes for Toyota? But, since there are 10 dissatisfied customers from GM and only 1 from Toyota, your odds of hearing bad things about a GM product are much better.

So while, Toyota may seem like a great manufacturer, you have to look at the hard numbers to really see what is going on. I am not trying to detract from Toyota's reputation because they have built a good one. What I am trying to do is to bust down some of the hype about Toyota's reputation. Toyota builds a great car that will appeal to many people. It is made to last 100,000 miles or more and they are relativly trouble free miles...provided you care for the car properly and keep up with its maintenance schedule. Then again, there are many GM cars and trucks out there that have been running for a good long time without issue. Which is why reliability is such a misnomer due to the large number of varibles involved in determining how reliable an individual car is. Since there are so many variables that determine that reliability figure, it is hard to naildown a sample set of criteria to determine how reliable the vehicle actually is. To really understand what the "reliability" term means when discussing any manufacturer, one must look at the study itself to see what they chose to look at to determine this "reliability" term. In most cases, you would be surprised at what passes. With that in mind, you can't look at the "hard" data presented in magazines and newspapers and get an accurate representation of what the surveys actually show. You only get a bastardized version of what the author of the article that referenced the survey wants you to see. That goes for pretty much all surveys from any source for any product in any market.

Toyota has a good network of dealers and low maintenance costs. Because of this, it is cheap to get the regular maintenance done on the vehicles. Toyota has done this on purpose. Make it affordable to maintain the vehicle and people will do it without hesistation. Well maintained vehicles last forever. Didja ever see what GM charges for vehicle maintenance? Bring your kid 'cause you'll probably have to sell them into slave labor to afford it.

So yes, Toyotas are reliable. As reliable as any other car. The difference between Toyotas and GMs is that Toyota stands behind thier vehicles and thier customers by offering service plans and such that make it easy for the average owner to live with. The average Toyota owner is more likely to keep up with maintenance than other owners because of how easy it is.

Toyota deserves its reputation because of the effort they put into the customer relationship which begets the reliability through ease of maintenance. Easy/cheap maintenance is more likely to be carried out by a greater segment of the ownership than expensive/difficult maintenance. Toyotas aren't really any better than other vehicles out there and the trucks really aren't any "tougher". If you want to buy a Toyota based on the reputation then go ahead but do recognize when the actual reputation stops and the hype begins. Blind brand alleigance is just silly. I think Toyotas are great too but I don't own any because I have just not found what I was looking for in thier product. Does that make it better or worse than GM, Ford, Nissan, Honda, Chrysler or anyone else? No, it doesn't. Do the thousands and thousands of satisified Toyota owners have the wrong idea? No, then don't. So who is wrong? The people who will put Toyota or any other manufacturer on a pedestle for no other reason than the single sedan, minivan or pick-up they owned for years without a problem. Just because you have a great experience that fits what the commercials want you to believe doesn't mean everyone has. A single owner with a single vehicle is not indicative nor a legitimate sample group for a population of Toyota vehicles/owners that extends into the millions.


Yes, Toyota is great but they are not THAT great. Don't fall into the hype. That goes for any make, good or bad hype included.

MacLeod

Originally posted by bknauss
I thought it was Japanese for
"one hell of a fugly car that could only appeal to your mother, but great reliability anyway"

No, that would be "Honda"!

Um....er....except in Josh's case that is!

exalted512

i also would sure like to know when GM just went to crap...my truck has 196k miles on it and the only thing ever been replaced on it is the master cylinder and the alternator(which is probably a lot due to the system in the truck). GMs service isnt cheap? I dont have any experience with toyota, but compared to honda id say GMs service is much cheaper. My g/f had to take her civic in for her 20k mile check up which is basically an inspection with an oil change. That cost her $150. If she skipped it her warranty is void...
My dad was the head of an electrical co-op for a while and they bought fords, chevys, and dodge work trucks. Annually, the chevys were the cheapest to maintain with the least amount of broken parts.
-Cody

AsSiMiLaTeD

When it comes to Toyota or any car being crap, all I have to go on is my personal experience and the information about these vehicles made available to the public.

As for the info made available to us, this is very scarce in terms of what I'm looking for. John brings up a good point, it's not how many lemos that you produce that counts, but the percentage of the total vehicles produced that are lemons is a good statistic...and a really hard one to find. When I bought my last two vehicles, I looked for this and other types of information, and really just couldn't find any.

However, I bet if those stats were available to us, Toyota would still have a lower defective rate, even in a ratio type format.

So, that means all I have to go on is what I've seen personally. My personal experience tells me that Toyota is the best out of everything I and others I know have tried. My dad and step-mother have always driven Chevy, and have always had issues and had to get new vehicles every couple of years or so. My Step-dad and mom have always had Toyota, his truck has 296,000 miles on it and the only thing he's replaced is normal stuff, and a starter.

I've owned a Dodge, two Chevy cars, a Jeep Grand Cherokee, and two Toyotas now...all I can say is out of those, the only one that hasn't given me major trouble are the Toyotas. So, that's what I'll buy for the rest of my life unless I have a bad experience, because that's what I know works. It just so happens that this is the experience of most of the people I know as well...enough of that is what gives Toyota their rep for good cars.

You gotta remember that a couple of decades ago, Toyota wasn't that big here...they had to earn their rep for making good cars. The only way you do that is by making good cars, period.

I wouldn't say that Toyota is light years ahead of American cars, but overall, they probably have a lower defective rate...

disneyjoe7

My experience with Chevy suck’s in such a way I will never own a Chevy. If given a Chevy I would sell fast cheap $.50 on the dollar or less whatever I don't even wish to sit in it. Saying that I own a 1967 428HO Pontiac motor in my garage, I at one time Loved GM they have completely turned me around I wish nothing but misery for them. Wish the CO's the big wigs to drop dead, be homeless, and beg for food. **** I think I'm turning Japanese.


BTW never owned a Chevy Truck which I been told they are built better. But sorry Honda and Toyota build fine products car / truck and small motors it doesn't matter their pride in design / or building shows day in day out. Chevy quest for the $$ show's day in day out.

brettw22

If Chevrolet only made trucks, they'd be fine. When people talk about Chevy being crap, I'd say most of the time it's their cars that they **** about.

I had a Chevy once and that was the very last time it will ever happen. Chevy uses cheap parts, and the overall design of the interiors is minutely improved upon from the crap they were churning out in the 80's. Everything just feels cheap.....Pontiac needs to ditch the early 80's orange dash lighting a la Trans Am and up their style and quality several notches. The only cars I've heard people NOT complain about are the Chevy branded, but manufactured by someone else, vehicles. Power to them for being one of the big 3, but they make up 1/3 of a pie of crap vehicles being manufactured.

pmlewis

Brett hit the nail on the head - garbage in = garbage out. I have worked for automotive parts manufactures for 13 years. I have made parts for the big 3, Toyota, Nissan, MB. As a general rule of thumb I can tell you that the "design" quality of the Japanese parts is better. Also, GM has a terrible habit of resurrecting programs that are supposed to end production. They are too cheap to tool up for new parts programs so they continually recycle part designs. We still make a transmission seal that was designed with the original J platform (1982 model year). This part has a particularly high warranty repair rate, around 5%. Yet GM will not make any design changes because the cost of the warranty repairs will not justify the redesign cost. So the continue to piss off at least 5% of their entry level customers, not to mention the seals that fail after warranty (good luck trying to get any relief from the customer satisfaction hotline). I had purchased 3 new chevys but high repair costs made me switch to Toyota. My camry in 4 years has not had 1 warranty issue or repair. My blazer which I owned 4 years, cost over $2000 in out of warranty repairs (intake manifold gasket, seized front wheel bearings, blown transmission line), not to mention 2 recalls and 5 warranty repairs (including 2 side windows and a master brake cylinder at less than 5000 miles). That does not even include all the little things that broke and fell off on the interior. If GM wants to win customers back they need to start selling better products, not luring customers with huge discounts.

MacLeod

Personally I think, especially in trucks, that all are made well.

Ive had 2 Dodge Rams now and both have given me zero problems.

American cars sucked **** thru the 80's and into the 90's but finally started to get their act together.

Today I believe all the major names make very high quality vehicles.