the mother of subs...

wangotango68

descent sub

scott:cool:

joe logston

they had this sub a ultimate electronics im going back and listen to them and get the price.

rlw

Originally posted by joe logston
they had this sub a ultimate electronics im going back and listen to them and get the price.

MSRP was $2500.00 a couple of months back, but I heard a nasty rumour that a price increase was rolling out Feb 1 (+/-). They're a nice looking sub. I haven't had a chance to play too much with one yet, the little I did hear it was good.

CHRIS

They are awsome!

mark g. nelson

This sub will do some damage. My local retailer sells it for $2600.00. Has sold 3 already. Nice build quality. Nice design 3 woofers and smaller than my 1200.

TrappedUnder Ice

Looks to me..like a garbage can...(first impression)but I bet it sounds great...

Strong Bad

Have you ever demoed the Sunfire Signature Sub?

That thing impressed AND scared the hell out of me at the same time. I thought the building was going to collapse!

The Sunfire is hands-down the one at the top of my list.


John

wangotango68

my brother ilaw has the sunfire jr. and it just sounds like a bunch
of rumbling noise. my 2cents.

scott:cool:

Ron-P

Martin Logan, yeah..right, your paying half that 2,600 for the name, you know just like paying and extra 10k for that blue and white checkered logo on the hood of your BMW.

It's a speaker a box and an amp. What can cost $2,600? Nothing but the name.

A year or so back at my local high-end A/V shop (where I got my marantz) I listed to some subs in the thousands of dollars price range. Do they sound better then my $500 velo, yes, 5 times that, no way.


Peace Out~:D

danger boy

I agree Ron-P, with lots of goods... you mostly pay for the name brand logo and not the materials used. I'm sure if broken down the materials used would only cost about a fourth of the price paid.

SPEAKER7

I'm happy with my Velo!:D

Aaron

Martin Logan, yeah..right, your paying half that 2,600 for the name, you know just like paying and extra 10k for that blue and white checkered logo on the hood of your BMW.

Please! I can't speak for their sub, but their Aeon speakers sounded damn good when I briefly auditioned them. They seemed to justify their $3000 price tag. BMW? Unless you're talking about the Z8, I think not.

you mostly pay for the name brand logo and not the materials used. I'm sure if broken down the materials used would only cost about a fourth of the price paid.

Hello? R&D anybody?

Aaron

RuSsMaN

Some people just don't get it....not that they have to...subjective and HIGHLY opinionated hobby we have here...

Yeah, hello, engineering.....

Sorry to dog the CT series velo owners, but you own a box with a mediocre amp, and a woofer. NOT a sub, simply a woofer in a box, with an amp that was designed by the lowest bidder. And for $500???!!!! Good lord, I'm thinking HSU, SVS, multiple kits, Adire, Dayton.....

Foam surround? What is this, the 70's?

Cheers,
Russ

mantis

You guy's all make good points.
The Martin Logan sub is one killer sub.I know because we carry it.High end bring's high prices.Do you think KLH top of the line sub is great????It sell for ...O MAYBE 299.99,AND THAT WOULD BE TAKE IT OUT FOR THEM.iT'S A speaker,cabnet,amp with wire and a crossover.But will it perform like the Martin Logan????Not in this lifetime.(Or any other for that matter).That sub ML hit's harder then the psw1200.that sub was 1200.00 retail.Was it worth all that????Well that sub can just about knock over the average house,and maybe the next doo house as well.But 1200.00???The question still remains...........is it worth all that money?Can I spend that much or less and get a better sub???Will the cheaper be able to create the same spl????Polk has been making sub's for years now and you get all your money out of them.They are not overpriced.The Martin Logan is not over priced.That sub when it hit's could just about crack concrete.It has a force like the fs18 by Velodyne.It hit's hard if not harder than the B&W asw4000.Sunfire would not have a prayer against that sub.Not that sunfire doesn't make a killer little sub,they do I personally like them alot.They start about 800.00 for there smallest sub.Is that worth all that money for a sub that is so small,can't cost much to make that sub,or could it??
I think that at whatever value you put on a sub,it has to perform like a sub.That means that it should go down to 20hz with no rolloff.If it can't ....then it's not a true sub.Now what value does that have??????
Dan

pensacola

>>Hello? R&D anybody?

Exactly. Obviously things are worth more than the sum of their parts. Microwave ovens, CDs, toilet paper, PCs, amplifiers—they all have unquantifiable "value" built in.

I'm sure my SDA-2a's cost me several times more than what they would otherwise be "worth". The company could've made a profit selling them for 50% less. That's not the point.

Knowing the pains that engineers go through squeezing out one more Hertz in the 15-30 Hz octave, paired with my belief that accurate musical reproduction can't exist without that bottom octave—the value I place on such a device may be more than what others might place on it.

Some folks don't see the value in spending more than $200 on a pair of loudspeakers—though no one here—so, it's a matter of degree.

I know one thing—companies (including ones that build high-end audio gear) don't stick around long unless they continue to produce a product that someone will get off their wallet for. Competition dictates that someone will always come along with a better product. Brand loyalty only goes so far—companies must prove themselves daily in order to maintain a customer base.
R.I.P. — K-Mart

CrazyHead

For this price, get dual Hsu TN1220HO's and a Hsu amp. It'll sound many, many, MANY times better.

goingganzo

my car subs hits 140 db ihave 4 kicker xpl and a alpine amp driveing them i usal dont turn them up but i olny payed 800 for the amp and subs in a custom box i dont see y that some of these ht subs cost so much i mean it is the same thing olny with a little more finish on the box and the amp has to take 110 and make it into 12v

Ron-P

Some people just don't get it

LOL...

Oh, I get it, I just would never buy it. Personally, I see it this way. The more $$$ you spend the less you'll gain in preformance as you move up the audio ladder.

For example. I paid $398.00 for the pair of my RT55s. Now, would I gain more than twice the sound quality if I went out and spent $1,000 on a pair of LSi9's, no. Yes, I would get better sound, but not twice as good. Same goes for subs.

I'm not saying by any means that the ML sub is cheap, I'm just saying it is not worth the price. They sell less quantity, so they need to mark them up more.

Whats the difference between a Sub and a Woofer anyway? The cone, the speaker, the amp, the specs, the box?....What? Help me out here. From the looks of it, that ML sub only goes 5 Hz lower than my velo, so it cannot be that as a defining factor.

Dog me all you want as the owner of a CT Velo. When I bought it, SVS did not exist, Polks subs were crap and the others I had not heard of. But, the Velo produces nice tight clean bass that I can feel not hear and that is all I wanted. Everyone at my HT meet last month varifed that an SVS in my HT room would gain me very little in preformance, not worth the price of the upgrade. Everyone was very impressed with my CT-Velo. Foam surround or not. It will last for years to come until I decide to get something different.


Peace Out~:D

goingganzo

i think i got alot of sub for the price i got my vel ct 120 for 350 now tell me what else i could get for the same price that is the same performance also alot of the speakers are jacked up in price like polk they have one of then price things if you dont sell at this price we wont let you sell them that is how mid-high end speaker companys keep their value of their speakers up.

Ron-P

That is a good price goingganzo. Mine was $449.00 add tax, then minus 10%, she came out to around $430 or something close. Some of those other subs that Russ listed would have cost twice that.


Peace Out~:D

OrangeToupee

Sorry to dog the CT series velo owners, but you own a box with a mediocre amp, and a woofer. NOT a sub, simply a woofer in a box, with an amp that was designed by the lowest bidder.

Wow! I thought that I had an actual subwoofer; the next thing that I'm going to hear, is that Russ' crap doesn't smell like apple-blossoms. Russ, why not lighten up a bit, you're always telling people that they don't get something, can't differentiate between Frank & Nancy Sinatra, or are otherwise unfit to operate the stop/play buttons on their cd players. What gives? Are you in the business of ruining it for others by telling them that their equipment stinks? The phrase "takes it too seriously" comes to mind.

No disrespect intended, but it seems like so many of your posts are mean-spirited in nature, you know? We all know that you know more about this stuff than the vast majority of posters, but it would be nice if you would use your knowledge for the good of the people, and not use it as a means for keeping our necks under your high heels.

RuSsMaN

Your opinion forum, right?

Just my opinion, and there is more to a sub than specs, and placing a common, cheap woofer in a box, does not make it a 'sub'.... I am not an engineer, I don't have any hard data to back up any of this discussion. To me, a true SUBwoofer, will go subsonic, by -3db down or so. High x-max, lots of linear cone movement... I myself don't own any of what I consider to be a true subwoofer. I have a modified bandpass DCM, and a B&W ASW500, both of which are simply woofers in boxes, with plate amps. They do fill in the low end, and do it fairly well, certainly more than the surrounding bookshelf speakers do.

Once I get the employment scene under control, I plan to look at better options. Subsonic options.

Once again, thats just how I hear it, just 'my opinion'....

One could say Ron came out on the attack against ML, and perhaps I did the same regarding the velo....BUT thats ok, just our 'opinions', right? I apologize for knocking any Velo CT owners, but thats how I feel. I don't like the build vs the cost. I think the CT series would be a decent buy, at 30% off what they are asking for them.

Cheers,
Russ

Besides, what's wrong with a little spice every now and then......

Ps: And seriously, I know nothing more than anyone else, I just speak from my experiences....

Pss: Dayton Titanic, Adire Rava, HSU, SVS, all start under 5 frankins....

Ron-P

Damn you Russ.

I was just over at the SVS site and was checking out the SVS 25-31PCi. Looks pretty sweet for $549. I could sell the Velo for at least half of that.

What would I gain? Would it be substantial?


Peace Out~:D

RuSsMaN

Ron,

You are a true home theater enthusiast, I respect that. I love to see someone really 'in' to their hobby. I think the difference would be SUBstantial. My first demo with SVS was an eye opening experience. The first sounds I got to hear were in the opening of Toy Story 2, with the preview for Monsters Inc.

I could swear, it FELT like I was dead smack in the middle of a wrestling mat, and a 400lb fat dude just got body slammed next to me. It is really hard to describe, it is another level, another dimension of bass.

It is SO much more, than our typical 'subwoofers'. It was as if I heard 'real' bass for the first time. So ok, they slam hard on movies, but they are incredible with music also. As far as accuracy and speed, they act like a good sealed sub, such as the JmLab Chrous.

I stroked your ego above, but I wanted to. Your setup is great, don't get me wrong, but I feel like with just a LITTLE more, it would be top notch, just about as good as it can get (there is always something better, but you catch my drift). I also worry about the HT cronies, the ones that keep telling you that you don't need seperates, that you don't need a better sub.... From my outside view, it almost appears they are just trying to hold the man (you) down....

Cheers,
Russ

Ron-P

Right on Russ. I think I'm going to seal the deal. But, It looks I might jump up a model to the 20-39PCi. Little bit more low-end extension. I'll kick-it around a week and decide. I posted threads on other HT forums to get opinions as well.


Peace Out~:D

goingganzo

you can buld your own for alot less and get alot more i am going to do that and i would consider anything over 8 inch in diamiter to be a sub woofer. my old mains witch had 12 's with a pasave raidor 12 could put out some bass but they sucked for highs

OrangeToupee

Classy response, Russ, and see what happens when you provide constructive criticism? Ron-P is heading out to upgrade his velo, and I'm thinking of doing the same!

billlb

Mantis: Sorry man but you are the typical salesman {whoops I forgot---in a high end store} If you guys don't sell it it isn't good---yeah right. For you to compare klh to martin logan COME ON ! ! ! What's the math on that fair comparrison 10 times min. I think you could do better than that don't you think? And to down play sunfire---you are pure nuts and really don't know what you are talking about. Why-because of the small cabinetry as you said ? Well I guess velodyne is in the same class then. Hey I really love my polk psw 650 , it's a real good sub. But camparred to a sunfire that's only about 13" cube and costs almost 3 times as much---no camparison. The velodyne hgs series cube costs almost 3-4 times as much---no comparison. OH ! I forgot your store dosen't sell them so they are not good.......I love my polks but most of all I am honest.

Ron-P

Looks like I may hold off on the SVS, take a cruise thru this thread at the new HSU VTF-3, looking to street soon with a tag close to that of the SVS 20-39PCi.

Thanks to Russ I've got Subs bouncing around inside my head.

Peace Out~:D

pensacola

Seems to me that a lot of folks on these forums have a common affliction: Bass Envy

wangotango68

hell my little psw 250 does me just fine.


scott:)