Might as well by IC's on looks....

PolkThug
PolkThug Posts: 7,532
edited May 2006 in 2 Channel Audio
I'm finding that all of the interconnects I have tried don't alter sound at all.

Objectively, I can run them in a closed loop and measure their output (see pic). So far, all the same.

Subjectively, I have dual analog outputs on my source for CD's. Using a remote, within about 3/4 of a second I can flip back and forth between IC's from my listening position, still, no difference.

I'm not even looking for a "better" IC, I'm at the point now where I just what to hear or measure ANY difference.

I'm frustrated, but it is STILL fun to try different cables.
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  • PolkThug
    PolkThug Posts: 7,532
    edited March 2005
    Current batch of cables that make no sonic difference (brought to you by "Blur Vision")
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  • PolkThug
    PolkThug Posts: 7,532
    edited March 2005
    Ran three different test tones from each of the 5 cables. All results are displayed at once in the pic.
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  • PolkThug
    PolkThug Posts: 7,532
    edited March 2005
    First 30 seconds of track one from "Zero's Reference CD". Closed loop test. All results displayed at once, as you can see, no variations for 5 different cables. I ran each cable twice.
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,552
    edited March 2005
    What are those white cables and what are they hooked up to?

    Come to Polk Fest in the fall, bring your cables and I'll let you listen to them vs my cables on my set up, maybe you'll hear a difference then, I don't know.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • PolkThug
    PolkThug Posts: 7,532
    edited March 2005
    Belkin mini-to-rca. Gold plated, double-shielded. Hooked to a computer. No speakers or receivers to interfere, SoundHound suggested this method.
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,552
    edited March 2005
    Ok, but how can you truly test a cable if you have to run them through the Belkin's?
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • Frank Z
    Frank Z Posts: 5,860
    edited March 2005
    What wires are they(1 thru 5)?
    9/11 - WE WILL NEVER FORGET!! (<---<<click)
    2005-06 Club Polk Football Pool Champion!! :D
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  • PolkThug
    PolkThug Posts: 7,532
    edited March 2005
    Originally posted by F1nut
    Ok, but how can you truly test a cable if you have to run them through the Belkin's?

    There are FAR less pathways in this setup than going from an actual CD Player and into a receiver and out to your speakers.

    This way, there isn't much that could interfere.
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  • PolkThug
    PolkThug Posts: 7,532
    edited March 2005
    1. Knukonceptz, twisted pair.
    2. Monster
    3. Nordost Solar Wind
    4. Cheap stock-style
    5. Knuconceptz, silver plated copper, etc.
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,552
    edited March 2005
    Hmmmm..well ok.

    I've never needed or believed in the need to "test" cables with testing equipment, just my ears and they have never let me down. My offer stands.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • phuz
    phuz Posts: 2,372
    edited March 2005
    What kind of sound card? Does it do any type of conversion? I gotta wonder if it does any type of normalization, etc.
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  • Toxis
    Toxis Posts: 5,116
    edited March 2005
    Originally posted by F1nut
    I've never needed or believed in the need to "test" cables with testing equipment, just my ears and they have never let me down. My offer stands.
    I'm with you.
    Never kick a fresh **** on a hot day.

    Home Setup: Sony VPL-VW85 Projo, 92" Stewart Firehawk, Pioneer Elite SC-65, PS3, RTi12 fronts, CSi5, FXi6 rears, RTi6 surround backs, RTi4 height, MFW-15 Subwoofer.

    Car Setup: OEM Radio, RF 360.2v2, Polk SR6500 quad amped off 4 Xtant 1.1 100w mono amps, Xtant 6.1 to run an eD 13av.2, all Stinger wiring and Raammat deadener.
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  • Early B.
    Early B. Posts: 7,900
    edited March 2005
    What gear are you running those cables with? You'll likely hear differences in cables with better gear. Also, most of your cables seem to be of similar quality. Try others such as Audioquest, Kimber, etc.
    HT/2-channel Rig: Sony 50” LCD TV; Toshiba HD-A2 DVD player; Emotiva LMC-1 pre/pro; Rogue Audio M-120 monoblocks (modded); Placette RVC; Emotiva LPA-1 amp; Bada HD-22 tube CDP (modded); VMPS Tower II SE (fronts); DIY Clearwave Dynamic 4CC (center); Wharfedale Opus Tri-Surrounds (rear); and VMPS 215 sub

    "God grooves with tubes."
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  • PolkThug
    PolkThug Posts: 7,532
    edited March 2005
    Originally posted by phuz
    What kind of sound card? Does it do any type of conversion? I gotta wonder if it does any type of normalization, etc.

    In the beginning, I calibrated the sound card using the cheap cable in the loop. There is no adjusting after that point. I figured that if there was a difference between anything, it would be the cheapest one.
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  • Frank Z
    Frank Z Posts: 5,860
    edited March 2005
    Polkthug,
    Clean out your mailbox.
    9/11 - WE WILL NEVER FORGET!! (<---<<click)
    2005-06 Club Polk Football Pool Champion!! :D
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  • PolkThug
    PolkThug Posts: 7,532
    edited March 2005
    Originally posted by F1nut
    Hmmmm..well ok.

    I've never needed or believed in the need to "test" cables with testing equipment, just my ears and they have never let me down. My offer stands.

    I'd like to fly out, but I can't (all my cash is getting ready for a new Mustang).

    My offer to you is that if you ever come through KC, take my subjective test. If you can pick your cable 3 out of 3 times, free BBQ on me. :)
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  • PolkThug
    PolkThug Posts: 7,532
    edited March 2005
    Originally posted by Early B.
    What gear are you running those cables with? You'll likely hear differences in cables with better gear. Also, most of your cables seem to be of similar quality. Try others such as Audioquest, Kimber, etc.

    For the subjective testing, the analog outs of the Denon 2200 are used (Burr-Brown DAC's), connected to an Onkyo TX-SR700.

    I think the price range of the cables above is $6 up to $110.
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  • PolkThug
    PolkThug Posts: 7,532
    edited March 2005
    mailbox cleaned!
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  • hoosier21
    hoosier21 Posts: 4,411
    edited March 2005
    It is possible that the differences are so small they can't be measured, at least not by home PC test equipment. (no offence at all intended)

    And it is possible that cable that measure the same, sound different.

    Copy and Paste from the net

    The Measurements Camp

    Relying on measurements implies that the measuring equipment is at least as good as our hearing in ascertaining differences. The advantage is that the equipment does not contain a bias. In addition, it can perform the task over and over again without tiring and is therefore far less biased and far more consistent than a human.



    The Hearing Camp
    Those that rely on hearing believe that there is no proof the "machines" are as refined as human hearing in distinguishing differences. In addition, there is no proof the "machines", even if they were capable of determining differences that the human ear cannot, can discern all the differences the human ear can discern. Therefore, there is no proof that test equipment can test for a duplication of reality as determined by human senses and experience.

    I'm in the hearing camp
    Dodd - Battery Preamp
    Monarchy Audio SE100 Delux - mono power amps
    Sony DVP-NS999ES - SACD player
    ADS 1230 - Polk SDA 2B
    DIY Stereo Subwoofer towers w/(4) 12 drivers each
    Crown K1 - Subwoofer amp
    Outlaw ICBM - crossover
    Beringher BFD - sub eq

    Where is the remote? Where is the $%#$% remote!

    "I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us have...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."
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  • RuSsMaN
    RuSsMaN Posts: 17,987
    edited March 2005
    Hook up 6 different speakers (with matched efficiency), and do the same thing. The will all play your test tones, but no 2 will sound the same.

    Take 6 different receivers or amps, with identical (on paper) power, thd, and s/n ratios, and do the same thing. They will all play your test tones, but no 2 will sound the same.

    I appreciate the fact that you went through this, and took the time to set it up, take the readings and document it. However, all you have proven is that each cable can carry the same electrical signal, without a change in gain.

    Cheers,
    Russ
    Check your lips at the door woman. Shake your hips like battleships. Yeah, all the white girls trip when I sing at Sunday service.
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  • jdhdiggs
    jdhdiggs Posts: 4,305
    edited March 2005
    I think you just proved his point Russ.

    The amp tries to recreate the signal at an amplified level.

    The speakers tries to convert the electrical signal to sound waves

    The cables? All they do is carry the electrical signal. There is no conversion process of any type. What goes in, comes out. If that is the case for all cables, well then they should all "sound" the same
    There is no genuine justice in any scheme of feeding and coddling the loafer whose only ponderable energies are devoted wholly to reproduction. Nine-tenths of the rights he bellows for are really privileges and he does nothing to deserve them. We not only acquired a vast population of morons, we have inculcated all morons, old or young, with the doctrine that the decent and industrious people of the country are bound to support them for all time.-Menkin
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  • Frank Z
    Frank Z Posts: 5,860
    edited March 2005
    Pulls out lawn chair and waits for the flames to start flowing like wine......
    9/11 - WE WILL NEVER FORGET!! (<---<<click)
    2005-06 Club Polk Football Pool Champion!! :D
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  • PolkThug
    PolkThug Posts: 7,532
    edited March 2005
    Originally posted by RuSsMaN
    However, all you have proven is that each cable can carry the same electrical signal, without a change in gain.

    Cheers,
    Russ

    Exactly.
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  • PolkThug
    PolkThug Posts: 7,532
    edited March 2005
    Originally posted by jdhdiggs
    I think you just proved his point Russ.

    The amp tries to recreate the signal at an amplified level.

    The speakers tries to convert the electrical signal to sound waves

    The cables? All they do is carry the electrical signal. There is no conversion process of any type. What goes in, comes out. If that is the case for all cables, well then they should all "sound" the same

    jd, I couldn't have said this better myself. The IC's job is extremely simple.

    Thanks,
    PT
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  • jrlouie
    jrlouie Posts: 462
    edited March 2005
    If you can pick your cable 3 out of 3 times, free BBQ on me. :)

    I'm going to KC this weekend and I can't wait to chow on some Arther Bryant's! Best damn BBQ out there ;)
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  • RuSsMaN
    RuSsMaN Posts: 17,987
    edited March 2005
    You don't have ANY measurement of tone, just a simple signal.

    You and I can both say the word 'cables' at 80db. Does that mean we sound alike? You have proven nothing, except that each cable can carry an electrical signal, without a change in gain, and THAT's it. So cables aren't amplifiers, great. What does that have to do with the tonal signature?

    James, what cables are you using, and why?

    PT, what is your current 'rig' that you can't hear a difference on?
    Check your lips at the door woman. Shake your hips like battleships. Yeah, all the white girls trip when I sing at Sunday service.
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  • PolkThug
    PolkThug Posts: 7,532
    edited March 2005
    Originally posted by jrlouie
    I'm going to KC this weekend and I can't wait to chow on some Arther Bryant's! Best damn BBQ out there ;)

    Sounds good. If you can't pick out your interconnect vs. the $6 interconnect, you're buying!;)
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  • jrlouie
    jrlouie Posts: 462
    edited March 2005
    I'm a believer in the difference in sound over various interconnects. I've heard it first-hand, and it was significant. In fact, I'm waiting on a Signal Cable to arrive in the mail, maybe today :)
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  • PolkThug
    PolkThug Posts: 7,532
    edited March 2005
    Originally posted by RuSsMaN
    You don't have ANY measurement of tone, just a simple signal.
    I measured the SPL peaks from 20Hz to 20kHz with music as well.

    You and I can both say the word 'cables' at 80db. Does that mean we sound alike?
    Of course not, because of the harmonics in our voices. That is why I did a test with music as well as the three individual tones. Also, I could analyze a recording of a single key stroke on a piano and see if the tone and harmonics all match up in comparison.

    You have proven nothing, except that each cable can carry an electrical signal, without a change in gain, and THAT's it.

    I already agreed with you on that, (since my subjective part is my opinion which can only be proven to myself).

    PT, what is your current 'rig' that you can't hear a difference on?

    Denon 2200 -> Onkyo TX-SR700 -> RTi8

    Regards,
    PT
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  • Early B.
    Early B. Posts: 7,900
    edited March 2005
    For the subjective testing, the analog outs of the Denon 2200 are used (Burr-Brown DAC's), connected to an Onkyo TX-SR700.
    Yeah, that may be part of the problem. Try using decent 2-channel components for your testing.
    HT/2-channel Rig: Sony 50” LCD TV; Toshiba HD-A2 DVD player; Emotiva LMC-1 pre/pro; Rogue Audio M-120 monoblocks (modded); Placette RVC; Emotiva LPA-1 amp; Bada HD-22 tube CDP (modded); VMPS Tower II SE (fronts); DIY Clearwave Dynamic 4CC (center); Wharfedale Opus Tri-Surrounds (rear); and VMPS 215 sub

    "God grooves with tubes."
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