Teacher loses it...

Frank Z

Understood. My point is simply this, there's probably more to the story that we are not privy too. We only saw a few seconds worth of video. What was the situation before the video started? Was the kid a problem student? Did the teacher chug a 2 liter bottle of Jolt Cola before class?

We got to see the end, and that's it.

dragon1952

and then call security, have the kid removed from the classroom, and away from the rest of his cohorts.

For not standing during the national anthem? Where is it written that everyone must do that? Jeez freakin' Louise! I thought this was a free country. As much as some don't like it it's his right, for crying out loud.

Kids in schools do NOT have the same rights as adult citizens.

Huh!?!?

Man, some of you guys are downright scary.

Demiurge

It's funny...The teachers I respect more than any others NOW are the ones who didn't take our B.S. and try to be our 'friends' and understand our 'feelings'.

Going to school isn't about your damn feelings. You're there to learn. STFU and do your work. It's quite a simple process if people would just stop trying to push the damn envelope. I've heard worse than that when I was in school and I don't see anything wrong with the teacher laying down the law with a few a-holes. He didn't do anything physical to them at all and we're at a sad state in this country if we can't take an educator raising his voice at our kids who are being subordinate.

I can't for the life of me believe that we're equating the teachers actions with the actions of the kid.

That's the type of B.S. that creates kids that think they can disrespect authority figures when they have no right to do so.

*Edit*

In response to the above post....Isn't it then his right not to do his homework? His right to wear a shirt with the middle finger promtly displayed on it? The teacher told him to stand....you effin stand. He didn't tell the kid to sing or recite the words...but I can't even believe we're soooooo effin' afraid of the word 'God'.

Don't friggin' say it then.

And kids don't have the same rights as adults. If the kid didn't like it he should have stood his punk **** up. Then brought the issue up to his parents. It's not for him to talk back to the teacher in an instance like that.

Now a kid can sue his parents if mommy sends him to bed without supper. :rolleyes:

Dennis Gardner

There has to be a history between this teacher and this group of kids. Why would you have a hidden camera in your jacket or bag to tape the incident if you weren't positive of the reaction on the way?

Both are wrong, but the teacher isn't a leader at all. If he would have been a leader with a cool head, his hidden video showing the level of disrespect would have been the evidence for the principle to see, not the student's video.

He was definately baited into his reactions, most likely by past outbursts. He will no doubt pay the larger price for it.

It is becoming harder by the day to influence young'ens with positive leadership, because the hell raisers get so much attention by abusing rightful claims to "their rights".

I am of the belief that video surveilance should be utilized in all classrooms and busses in our public schools to help insure proper actions on both sides of education.

Frank Z

Originally posted by Dennis Gardner
Why would you have a hidden camera in your jacket or bag to tape the incident if you weren't positive of the reaction on the way?

Those damn phones are a toy, plan and simple.

F1nut

I remember a kid in junior high that kept giving our music teacher a hard time, you know the stuff, kinda like this punk in NJ. One day it reached a climax and the teacher told him to go out in the hallway. Now, this kid was huge for his age, had to be 6'2" and 250lbs. The teacher was in his 50's, about 5'5 and maybe 170lbs. So, out they go, we hear the teacher yelling (barking) at the kid and the kid yelling back, the next thing we hear is a couple of loud bangs against the lockers. Half of us run out to see whats going on and the teacher has this kid jacked up, off his feet against the lockers. We're like Holy ****!

No one reported the teacher, we all knew the kid had it coming. Hell, the kid didn't report it either and never gave the teacher any more crap, nobody did. Everybody was a "man" about it and that is the problem today. Fewer and fewer kids know what it means to be a "man" because they think they have rights in school and at home. Elements in society have been programing this "my feelings" and "my rights" garbage for years now and to the point that it has become utterly ridiculous. I think someone should give that teacher a medal for having the gonads to do the right thing in the face of todays wussie attitudes.

If I scare you with my opinons, good you should be scared because the majority of this country has had it with doing it your way and there's a change in the the Wind.

Toxis

This is seems to be typical these days and how kids have no respect for anyone. Say what you will but I blame the gov't and all these laws "to protect kids." When I was growing up, if I f-ed up, I got the belt. I was never beaten other than with a belt. Now days, if a kid is spanked with a belt, the parents can go to jail for child abuse. Parents are almost to scared to discipline their children. The rest of the parents out there are to damn **** to actually do anything and feel their children are NEVER in the wrong, but then again these are the people that can't take blame for their own actions and find other means to a situation. Society is becoming way to damn ****... period. This is why (at least for now) I've decided I'm not having kids. I weap for the future.

brettw22

George, with your scenario I probably would have unholstered my weapon, stopped the kid in his tracks, and made him state his intentions. If that in and of itself would have made him crap his pants where he stood, so be it. Your job to maintain safety trumps his need to take a dump.

I have a delinquent little brother that would have said exactly what that kid said ("Are you serious.....") and walked out just like that kid did.

Based on that, I believe that the kid was disrespectful and that his attitude was not something based on having one bad day. His leaving the classroom was the right thing to do, albeit on his own instead of being sent out.

The problem with the attitudes of many kids is their false sense of entitlement.

George Grand

My only point, regardless of the kids "right" to not stand during the pledge is, the teacher responded to a non-violent act with violence. Kicking or pulling a chair out from underneath someone is in my eyes an act of violence.

If the kid was punching another kid, the teacher has every right/obligation to try and restrain him or stop the attack. Using physical means if need be.

I hear you Brett, but you really need to see the inside of the tanker, and the distances involved. There may not even be enough time for your solution, which given the time, would also be my solution or reaction. Given the time.

George Grand (of the Jersey Grands)

VR3

I'd just like to say...

Kids these days are just like the news.

Its *NOT* as bad as you guys think it is. You hear about the select few, and what they do. But you NEVER hear about the ones that do NOTHING bad in class, and the ones that try their best to learn.

Thats my 2 cents, stop saying "Youth Of Today" - because...its just not true...and a really bold statement. :rolleyes:

faster100

The kid was wrong, we know that... he may well be the class clown or trouble maker, But i have to agree with George grand on this one as i stated in my first response in this thread... The teacher was out of control, Lets take a poll who has kids and has endured the frusterations of child upbringing, and who has no kids and thinks every kid "these days" is a piece of ****! And yes it does matter, all the negative feelings that all kids suck today is stupid... I see high school kids around here, we have 3 schools 1 block from each other at the end of my street, Elementary, middle and high so i see them all... some look like Thugs and some are just normal looking regular kids... I have 2 girls and one started kindergarten this year.. If any teacher ever acts like that no matter what school she's in E,M,High, im going down there to have a chat!!! If he gets that out of control he shouldnt be teaching,

Its not his fault some kids are punks, But its his job to provide a safe enviroment for the "rest" of the kids... Ya think some of the Girls in that glass were scared shitless that their "man" teacher just lost it like that? Come on, the days of the 60's and 70's of teachers beating kids asses is over.... They are Role models...

just like cops, if they went and acted foolish at every stressful event we would have a worse case police force then we have now.. in any city.state... Just my 0.02 cents

Demiurge

Originally posted by Vr3MxStyler2k3
I'd just like to say...

Kids these days are just like the news.

Its *NOT* as bad as you guys think it is. You hear about the select few, and what they do. But you NEVER hear about the ones that do NOTHING bad in class, and the ones that try their best to learn.

Thats my 2 cents, stop saying "Youth Of Today" - because...its just not true...and a really bold statement. :rolleyes:

I graduated from H.S. 7 years ago, Trey, and it was bad then and has been getting worse. There have been kids who act out throughout history in all sorts of ways, but back then they actually used to levy some meaningful punishment. They didn't slap them on the wrist and try to think about how the little baby feels.

It's when you coddle the behavior that you will be taken advantage of. A sure fire way of getting someone to learn not to do certain things or behave a certain way is to make them fearful of the consequences and you don't do that by firing the teacher or pretending that what happened was on the same level.

I don't know that what the teacher did was how I would have handled it or a number of other people, but he certainly wasn't out of line. I want to know where it's written that a teacher can't put a little fear into a bunch of punks.....and what's sad is that this had no effect on them. They kept laughing and video taping the whole thing.

Many kids can get away with murder and they have no respect for anyone or anything because they're raised poorly and just the general shift in what's acceptable in todays nanny state where the children somehow think they have rights that supercede the adults. They don't.

Despite all that I'm not fearful of the future because as you said there are lots of good kids who have their heads straight. I don't think there is more misbehavior, but the escalations of incidients is what has been getting worse. There was always a kid who would talk back to the teacher, but it used to end after the first smartass remark. Now it goes on and on and then the teacher gets canned.

VR3

I agree, but my statement still stands.

Because of the last thing you said - Its the same people, just back then - it was ended alot sooner...

And I agree with this...

But I've had this argument many times on this forum...

Grown Ups Of Yesterday...Changed Today... As Youth Of Today Will Change Tommorow - Simple as that...

My question is...why didnt anyone fight back when all the things were being changed? The government handed it to them...why didnt any say anything?

You cant just blame kids of today or whatever...Its not our fault. How can people expect punks to respect anyone when their not made to...

faster100

Trey,

Some people think they never acted bad "back then" and because it was different stuff they did then todays youth it is worse... Ahem Bullsh@t ... LOL

with the attitudes, "Those punk **** kids" it's no wonder they seek negative attention.. that's all they receive.

I bet a bunch of those kids in that class are trouble makers or clowns, BUt what school doesnt/didnt have those type.. Its just when its on video it's looked apon as "really bad"

VR3

Hmm, well really...

Coming from a kids point of view here...

When I start school, the first week...I, and probally everyone else is trying to figuring out the teacher...

1) Are they strict (can they enforce what they say, and make people respect them)
2) Are they loose (no strict)
3) How do they teach...

But the most important part is the first two...I have been in so many classes where the teacher, the first week...just gives off the impression they cant/wont do crap...and the class absolutely runs with it...

These are classes I usually do very poorly in...

Either way, a teacher now days STILL can have control, I've seen MANY do it...its all about how they present themselves...

And 'punks' around here are just sent away...they get like 2 or 3 chances...then boom....gone

PhantomOG

Originally posted by Vr3MxStyler2k3

1) Are they strict (can they enforce what they say, and make people respect them)
2) Are they loose (no strict)
3) How do they teach...

But the most important part is the first two...I have been in so many classes where the teacher, the first week...just gives off the impression they cant/wont do crap...and the class absolutely runs with it...

and that is exactly the sad state of affairs in American schools today. Parents are not being "parents" so teachers have to be parents as well as just teachers. #1 and #2 on your list should be exponentially less important than a teacher's ability to *teach*.

The mindset of the typical K-12 student doesn't see that the public school system is a great privlige and opportunity for them. Instead they see it as something they must "endure" and try to slide through with minimal effort. In other countries, students go to school all day and then work with tutors most nights to learn as much as possible. Even at a young age, parents instill in them the mindset that you have to work for whatever you want from life. Americans, in general, have a great sense of "self-entitlement", where they feel everything is owed to them and they shouldn't have to work hard to live comfortably. I know this doesn't go for everyone, but if we're talking about the bad apples, I think it describes them perfectly. This "self-entitlement" mindset is exactly why jobs are going overseas, and will continue to go overseas until we see things differently.

VR3

The first two are VERY important, because those two factors will determine whether or not they will be able to teach...whats the point of figuring out if they are a good teacher...if they cant even start teaching and do it with composure...

As for other countries, I've heard stories about how lucky we are, I am thankful for school, and am going through it, trying to do the best I can...again, your talking about the MINORITY...

PhantomOG

you missed my point entirely. teachers wouldn't have varying levels of "strictness" if students were well-behaved to begin with. i admire the teachers that can get through to problem kids but they shouldn't have to in the first place. there should be little to no difference between the way a grade school (at least high school) teacher acts and a college professor.

and i did qualify my statements with:

I know this doesn't go for everyone, but if we're talking about the bad apples, I think it describes them perfectly.

i absolutely agree with you that the media does blow things out of proportion and that there are plenty of kids who are trying. unfortunately, even a small percentage of bad apples ruins the experience for others (as you alluded to in your previous post).

VR3

Yes, I understand this - but what your talking about is a PERFECT society...never going to happen.

And agreed, the bad apples (the ones the teacher MUST be able to control) ruin it all...

But from what I've found...

Around 11th grade all the bad apples are pretty much gone, our school loses ALOT of students between 10th and 11th grade from dropping out or failing...

Like the senior class currently had 500 students in 9th grade, but now only has 356...

The bad apples are eventually eliminated from the chain and there is no remorse for their failure...they are left there to either drop out, shape up, or just leave when their 21 or 22...whatever it is...

PhantomOG

I know nothing is ever going to be perfect, but this "weeding out" process needs to happen at a much younger age than just prior to graduation.

my high school senior class in '97 was well over 600, but only about 500 graduated. pretty sad. i think everyone deserves a chance, but it is an unnecessary weight on society and a hindrance to other students to allow this "dead weight" to be dragged along until just before graduation.

VR3

Oh I completely agree...

I think students need to be picked out that cause the most trouble before they move on the middle school and switched to an 'alternative' school for disiplining of some such to put them in check... This would make life so much easier...

Of course, once those 'bag eggs' got back together, they would have a chance to prove themself in a real enviorment...of course...

I dont quite agree with making people being a dead weight like it ends up being, but I prefer that than them making me fail classes because nothing ever gets taught...

dragon1952

If I scare you with my opinons, good you should be scared because the majority of this country has had it with doing it your way and there's a change in the the Wind.

Yeah...it's called apathy towards the deterioration of the rights our founding fathers died for and it scares the hell out of me. :rolleyes:

BTW, this is too political of a subject to be discussing here.

spwuinmk67

It took me a while to read this story, due to my computer being down. But I realized that this happened about 2 towns over from me, where the stock guy from work goes to school. Unfortunatly, the kids from that school, generally suck. Most of them have that same attitude.

F1nut

Hey, you brought it up. It's clear to me that you don't understand what our founding fathers intended. :rolleyes:

Tour2ma

Was Woodrow Wilson a Founding Father? Hubert Hoover?

In 1916, President Woodrow Wilson ordered that it should become the National Anthem played by the military and naval services, but it wasn't until March 3rd, 1931 that it was officially designated as the National Anthem by act of Congress.

George Grand

The way I see it, it's a pledge of allegiance to a FLAG, and the republic for which it stands.

It doesn't mean you agree with every swinging hose IN the republic, or the MAIN hose either.

It doesn't mean you agree to wear a Chairman Mao shirt, along with every other hose in the republic.

I THINK it means that if Russia or China invaded us with ground troops you would take up arms against the aggressor and not assist him. If you can't pledge allegiance to that concept I'll help you get out of the country.

You're in a PUBLIC school? You keep your ideas to yourself and stand with everyone else. When you're a BIG boy, and can act upon your convictions, then you can sit.

I don't care for the city of Filthadelphia, but it's a good thing that young boy did that in the RELATIVE safety of a public school, and not the bleachers at a Phillies or Eagles game. I don't think he would have the BALLS to do that where the system couldn't come to his immediate rescue. And I think he's just crafty enough to know it.

George Grand (of the Jersey Grands)

bobman1235

Well said Mr Grand, I salute to you

George Grand

Back at you dude.

George

Jstas

Ya know, reading all of this stuff and being a person who has grown up in NJ, this sort of makes me laugh.

NJ is a "hard" state. Five of our major cities are in the top 10 worst places to live in the country. We have taxes and insurance rates that literally scare people out of the state. Our public school systems are rated as one of the worst in the country. The state is loaded with ****, pure and simple and we pay for it every day of our lives. NJ is a state where probably a good 55-60% of it's inhabitants need a good **** kicking to knock thier arrogant **** down a few notches.

Obviously this is a clear case of a kid who doesn't know his place and routinly steps out of it. This poor teacher probably did over-react but I can understand why. Everyone has a boiling point. He just reached his and lost it. I'm betting the **** kid(s) pushed him just to get a reaction because they think it's funny.

I wonder what they do when mommy catches them beating off and yells and crys. Do they laugh then? What about when daddy catches them drinking the booze from his cabinet. Do they laugh then?


I can honestly say that I was never like that. I think the worst thing I ever did in high school was drive my truck through the hallway. It was after hours though and I only had one other person helping me to unload about 800 pounds of lumber for the school play set we were building. So I backed the truck down the hallway so we didn't kill ourselves trying to unload the truck. I never got a detention, I never got myself into trouble intentionally. I knew my place and what my purpose was at school and I respected my teachers unless they didn't respect me.

Judging from the information brought to light in another thread concerning this, these kids had it coming to them. The teacher was wrong but judging by what it looks like he has been dealing with, I can understand why he went afowl of better judgement. Does that make it right? No. Does it mean that the situation is cut and dry? Hell no. The circumstances are bad all around and what should really be the issue is why the disciplinary administration of the school did not handle this long before it reached this point.

The kids were flat out wrong. Also, the only rights they have are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Any other rights are assumed by thier parents/guardians who are legally responsible for them until thier 18th birthday. Of course no one is intentionally going to tread upon thier rights and disrespect them unless they are behaving in a way to thumb thier nose at others rights. The teacher has a responsibility to himself and the rest of the class, not just this group of kids. He needs to maintain a healthy environment and if he is met with this crap everyday, well, it's very difficult to maintain a certain level of decorum.

Criminals get put in jail and lose thier freedoms because they have chosen to break laws and infinge upon others rights. These kids did something similar. They broke laws that were put in place in the school for teh good of the population of the school. Telling a kid he has a right to defy a policy or by-law in the school only insights defiance to all rules. Kids do not know the limits so they try to test them. In testing them, they cross the line quickly. Crossing that line deteriorates the learning environment because it causes teachers and administration to stop the normal learning day to handle the disturbance. These kids have infringed on every other student's rights in that school by causing the deterioration of a healthy learning environment. Why? Because they thought it was "funny" to not stanbd thier lazy **** up to respect the flag and country that many people, not just teh founding fathers, died for. Know what? **** THAT! Gimme those kids for 1 month without thier parents. They'll change and they'll understand, believe me, they will understand. We'll even have guest disciplinarians too!

So yeah, this whole pile of hooey bugs me and it bugs me that people actually side with these brats. These kids need thier hair cut and thier asses kicked and thier parents need to be drug out into the street and have some sense beaten into them. When I have kids, if I EVER hear of crap like this happening and they are the cause...ohhhh, woe is them for the wrath of thier father will come down on them and they will truely know fear. A mother and father OWE it to thier children to show them the ways of the world and how things work. The parents of these kids have done them a great dis-service by allowing behavior like this to perpetuate. Afterall, we are all on this rock together and behavior like this only serves discontent. Stand up for your rights and stand up for what you believe in, there are LEGAL avenues that do not harm others in this country to do so and you are more than welcome to use them. Making a nuisance of yourself and degrading the quality of other students educations is one way to NOT go about doing so.

MacLeod

Kids today are a pain in the **** cause people dont beat their kids enough or at all. They have absolutely no repect for authority nor do they fear consequences.

Young kids by nature will push the limits to find out where they are cause, as kids they dont know ****. When I was a kid I found the limits and got my **** kicked. So naturally I didnt want to approach those limits again. Nowadays they get "time out" or "counseling" or whatever. Kids understand only 2 things. Toys and Pain!

My parents whooped the **** out of me on several occasions and it taught me to not only repsect my parents but also fear consequences. To this day my dad is a frail 70 year old man and partly psycho but yet I still do what he says and respect him cause I learned that growing up.

Parents are not supposed to be "buddies" or "best friends". They are supposed to be teachers, role models and authority figures.

But you can have the other extreme as well. Weve all seen the parents that all they do is yell and beat their kids. It cant be all punishment. Ya gotta have love in there too.

Also, we need a good world war to kick up again. We had a couple of those at the beginning of the century and patriotism and love of country was everywhere. Could you imagine michael moore making his movie back in 1942 about FDR? That slimy traitor would be drawn and quartered by the public before the movie made it out of the editing room! You would never have seen some punk diss'n the National Anthem like that back around 1950. The teacher wouldnt have had to do anything, his fellow classmates wouldve kicked his ****.

Finally, I dont see that this is that big a deal. I mean the teacher didnt pull the chair out from under him and dump him on the floor. He pulled it out slow enough that it made the punk stand up. Big freaking deal!