So... have I gone deaf?

polksda

After initially diving into SACD, buying a Sony CE595 and a roster of 2-channel and surround SACDs, I haven't been listening to SACD for about a month. I've been listening to redbook on my Ah! Njoe Tjoeb with upsampler, and basking in the lushness.

Last night I decided to pop some SACDs back in and...

BLEAGH!

Sounds dead by comparison. I've become spoiled by my tube CD player... either that or I've gone stone cold deaf.

It's amazing how time away from a product or process will re-color your perceptions when you eventually return.

PolkThug

Are you making sure to switch to the multi-channel inputs/outputs. This is the only path the SACD track will go through.

Regards,
PolkThug

F1nut

SACD or not you're comparing a $150.00 budget player to a pretty decent $900.00 player. What did you expect?

steveinaz

SACD and DVD-A are the "DAT" machines of the 21st century. They will both die a slow, quiet death, and you can thank Sony and Toshiba for its downfall due to kindergarten-level marketing.

What a joke hi-rez has turned out to be. Here we are, almost 5 years later---no software in the major chain stores, and 9 out of 10 people don't even know what SACD is. If you don't appeal to the mass consumers, you don't succeed. Period.

Great idea meets poor marketing and development.

Dennis Gardner

Maybe Sony needs to license to Bose.

That would get it into the mainstream!:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

steveinaz

You would have thought they (Sony) learned something from the Betamax fiasco, especially since it was the better VCR format....

pmckeealaska

I'll still be buying up as many SACD and DVD-A albums as I can find before they go the way of the Dodo (if thats what actually happens). I have really been amazed at the sound quality of some of the classic discs I have collected on high rez format. For me, it was worth it to have that kind of quality available, even if its only for a short while. Long live high rez formats!!

reeltrouble1

I think hi-rez is going to be around in some form. Of course since I like it I would say that. Of course those that never took the plunge would say differently.

It is mostly the forty and fifty somethings who actually buy discs to listen to over and over, the youngsters now buy a marketed band because of the "show" they put on, they listen to the disc while the band is hot then basically **** can the disc for the next one. The bands suck musically and the youngsters just have not been exposed to music that can make your hair stand on end and sends chills through you.

I read where hi-rez will be included with the dvd, this approach is the best marketing scheme I have heard since it will appeal to both sets of customers. But as SDA said a 1000.00 dollar player good pre and amp some quality speakers and CD's still make magic happen.

RT1

F1nut

Hmmm......9 out of 10 people don't know that you can still buy vinyl these days either and you can't find it in major retail stores, but that hasn't stopped the production or purchasing of it. So, maybe SACD will not make it mainstream, it's still a great format and will remain so. Mainstream today is mp3, iPod and other compressed garbage.....no thanks!

polksda

Originally posted by F1nut
SACD or not you're comparing a $150.00 budget player to a pretty decent $900.00 player. What did you expect?

By all accounts the CE595, despite being budget, is still quite a decent player. I just didn't expect the difference to be that stark...

F1nut

I mean this in the nicest way.........decent player? Get real.

polksda

Yes. Decent. Not magical. Not "greatest thing since sliced bread." Read some of the reviews here and elsewhere.

And I mean this in the nicest way.... every post you make comes off as being an audiophile snob. You seem to universally equate price with performance. You poohpooh every single component cable, or cord that doesn't cost gobs of money.

*harumph*










There. I feel better now.

pjdami

And I mean this in the nicest way.... every post you make comes off as being an audiophile snob.

hey polksda. F1 is a good guy. He can be brutally blunt about things and opinionated in his beliefs but aren't we all a bit.

You have some nice gear. I'm kind of with you on the redbook cd playback of nice cd players. I can't hear much of an improvement of the Rotel HDCD player I have over regular cd players that I have that are pretty nice in their own respect.

heck you SDA guys should be a clan sticking together!

Paul

F1nut

Since you took the gloves off.........

Yeah you got me, I am a audiophile snob. I only got to be one because I've experienced enough in this hobby to know that any $150.00 CD/SACD player is not what would be refered to as a decent player. That and Russ said I could play one.

Note to self, add another to the bozo list. :rolleyes:

dorokusai

I like to take my pants off when I rock my Sony....I swear it makes difference.

You know how freaky those folks are right!? They build that into their gear!

The 2005 Polkfest is an Audio Nut/ Nudist w/ Nuts event....shite, I forgot CFrizz is coming, so we may have to wear fig leaves.

HBombToo

Originally posted by dorokusai
I like to take my pants off when I rock my Sony....I swear it makes difference.

You know how freaky those folks are right!? They build that into their gear!

The 2005 Polkfest is an Audio Nut/ Nudist w/ Nuts event....shite, I forgot CFrizz is coming, so we may have to wear fig leaves.

I do believe this is a product of way toooooo many years at Sprint. I think I can relate;)

twin

organ

Interesting. Sorry to hear the SACD isn't working out for you. My DVD player plays both SACD and DVD-A but I haven't purchased any because there's nothing I want out there yet.

What do you guys think about this "Blue Ray" discs. I think that's going to fail. Some people are just getting into DVD's and there's already a high res dvd coming out.

Maurice

F1nut

Maurice,

What genre/artist are you not finding?

I don't know much about the Blue Ray format yet, so can't really comment.

polksda

Originally posted by F1nut

Note to self, add another to the bozo list. :rolleyes:

Oh, please accept my deepest apologies for not inscribing your opinion upon my heart as words to live by. You undoubtedly know everything about everything, and I should have never even thought about disagreeing with your opinion, your holiness.

Your opinion is the only one that matters when it comes to audio equipment. You are the definitive authority. I should throw out my subscriptions to all audio magazines, delete bookmarks to any other audio websites, and sit at the "New Posts" page, refreshing continuously all day long, waiting and praying that you will appear to deliver your sermon from the mount. I breathlessly await your sage words of wisdom.


</SARCASM OFF>

Get. Over. Yourself.



There's a difference between having a knowledgeable, informed opinion, and coming off sounding like an arrogant, egotistical ****.


[Yeah, yeah, I know. Pot. Kettle. Black. The pontification struck a nerve...]

TroyD

Uhhhh....look man, I don't the reason to get all in a twist.

I'm squarely in F1's camp. It's unreasonable to expect a 150 dollar entry level player to compete with one that cost 6x as much regardless of format.

I had a cheapie Pioneer universal unit for a short time and regardless of format, it was unlistenable to my ears. It is what it is. If YOU like it though, hey, knock yourself out. I, nor F1, makes a personal character judgement by which gear you own or like. We can express our opinons on that gear though. Hell, my gear isn't even in the same area code as F1's yet we still manage to remain friends.

The problem with high-rez isn't so much of the competeing formats (although it doesn't help) it's the fact that the general public could give a crap less about higher resolution. The general public is, and always has, been all about convenience. High-rez digital will never make it mainstream. IMO, it's destined to be a niche market, just like vinyl.

BDT

PolkThug

Originally posted by TroyD
I, nor F1, makes a personal character judgement by which gear you own or like.

Originally posted by F1nut
Note to self, add another to the bozo list.

steveinaz

Originally posted by F1nut
I mean this in the nicest way.........decent player? Get real.

I'd like to know how/why the CE-595 doesn't qualify as a "decent player" in your eyes? There's quite a few good reviews on this player, and thru the years I have owned a few Sony CDP's, to include the first one ever produced for the mass market, a 14 bit player; all of which had respectable specs and very good sound...

TroyD

Originally posted by steveinaz
I'd like to know how/why the CE-595 doesn't qualify as a "decent player" in your eyes? There's quite a few good reviews on this player, and thru the years I have owned a few Sony CDP's, to include the first one ever produced for the mass market, a 14 bit player; all of which had respectable specs and very good sound...

It depends on what you are using for a reference.

Now, in F1's case, if you have a high-tone MF player (VERY high-tone, that matches his mahageny pipe)....then, yes, it's not going to be a decent player. Now, if your baseline is another entry-level player, yes, the 595 may seem like a giant killer. Depends on what your baseline is.

You also have to take into consideration the point of view, F1's contention is that the source component has the most effect on sound quality.

You had a CDP-101? Cool...but the fact is, that general consensus by the audiophile community is that 'vintage' cd players are crappy sounding. Now, again, a certain vintage player when compared with other vintage players may have merit...if you compare that with a current high end unit, will more than likely suffer by comparison.

BDT

steveinaz

...and the CE-595 is not a decent player because...

Calling someone a "bozo" because they don't subscribe to your line of thinking is wrong, plain and simple.

Go ahead and add me to the bozo list as well. I like the company.

polksda

Originally posted by steveinaz
I'd like to know how/why the CE-595 doesn't qualify as a "decent player" in your eyes? There's quite a few good reviews on this player...

Thank you, that was my point. I could be wrong, but I don't believe F1 has actually heard a CE595, but out comes the "it's inexpensive so it must be crap" mantra.

I understand the camp that says "you get what you pay for" and only buys expensive equipment. I also understand the camp that is always looking for that elusive bargain gem, the Toshiba 3960s of the world. What I don't understand is F1s complete and utter contempt for anything that isn't elite, and the attitude that if you own or advocate a bargain-priced component, you're a moron.

It's insulting. Maybe it's not intended that way, but it is.

*shrug* Oh well...

shack

In all fairness....the "Bozo" comment was in response to the "audio snob" rant which for all extent and purpose was a personal issue. It had nothing to do with the like or dislike of a particular piece of gear. A question was asked, answered, rebutted, re-rebutted and then got personal....but hey....it is the internet after all....

I have a CE775 (used to own a C222ES) and have heard the CE595 on a couple of occasions. And yes the CE595 is a decent entry level CDP for those wanting to get into SACD...no more...no less.

PolkThug

Originally posted by shack
In all fairness....the "Bozo" comment was in response to the "audio snob" rant which for all extent and purpose was a personal issue.

...which was triggered by, "I mean this in the nicest way.........decent player? Get real."

F1 does come off as a little snobby in his responses, but maybe in "real life" he isn't. If F1 ever comes to my house, I'll still drink a beer with him and force him to listen to my awful RTi series Polks.

F1nut

Well, Good Morning!

Not once did I attack you polksda, why have you taken the low road in this matter? I stated my opinion on what I considered to be a obvious reason why your Sony player doesn't sound as good as your Ah!. You don't like it, find, but if it's such a decent player then why have you found it less than? What you have just experienced is a lesson in audio, just because some folks claim it's a decent player doesn't make it so. You just proved it!







Steve and PT, If you want to take the "bozo list" comment out of context, so be it, but you and I both know that I did not call him a bozo.

reeltrouble1

In a way it seems SDA and F1 are in the same camp with regard to the initial "Have I gone deaf" question.

F1 firmaly believes source to be most important isnt SDA confirming this? Same speaks different players the lower end player using better software and SDA says it does not sound better than the high end player using standard software.

I dont have a high end CD player to compare with my SACD machines, but when I did compare some machines SACD vs Redbook that were similiar on the "quality" scale at the polkfest the SACD player did go a little deeper on the bass added a bit more clarity and the sound was generally more pleasing, but you had to listen intently. Makes sense to me with the resloution of the SACD.

RT1

polksda

Originally posted by F1nut
Steve and PT, If you want to take the "bozo list" comment out of context, so be it, but you and I both know that I did not call him a bozo.

I guess I misinterpreted it as well; I thought that was exactly what you were doing...

PolkThug

Originally posted by F1nut
Steve and PT, If you want to take the "bozo list" comment out of context, so be it, but you and I both know that I did not call him a bozo.

You're right, you didn't call him a "bozo" directly, you just put him on the "bozo list".

Maybe polksda should have just put you on the "audiphile snob" list.



I put you all on my "come to KC, eat BBQ, listen to music" list.