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Laura Palmer

All of you are going to KILL ME.

True, I have purchased the RTi8s and own the RTi6's already...and TECHNICALLY have been VERY happy with them.

<gulp>

BUT

The return policy still says I can take it all back and start ALL over. I can afford the RTi12's and if everyone is so much more confident that they are better with proper ampage (bi-amping on my Pio 1014) and they're only MARGINALLY more expensive (relatively speaking)...I feel as though I *ought* to give SERIOUS consideration to them. So, I have decided to purchase them and put them on my credit card... bring them into my OWN home and try bi-amping with my OWN gear and do speaker A/B tests to find out which is TRUELY the better one for *my* system.

I think a lot of you will probably be happier that I'm going to give the RTi12's a fairer shot... since so many were certain that they were hooked up very poorly at Future Shop (which I'm starting to believe also) but the one thing that may get some of you angry is that I *may* even start considering the LSi series?

What do you think? Is it better for music? Does it perform as well for Home Theater?

Laura Palmer

I'm starting to seriously consider some of the top of the line LSi gear, now that I've gotten a few price quotes back.

I'm trying to avoid "upgraditus"... Because frankly, this is the only moment in my life where I think I'll have the opportunity to splurge like this (within reason, of course).

The ONLY problem is that if I go with LSi, I have no opportunity to audition them, cause there are no dealers in Canada for LSi that have demo rooms that allow me to try out some music.

Can I just ASSUME that ANYTHING in the LSi line is *undoubtedly* better than the RTi series? Or unfortunately, is this also "too subjective".

Have there ever been any dissatisfied LSi listeners that felt the RTi's were better speakers?

I'm very interested to know your opinions.

Laura Palmer

I discovered an interesting nugget I do not understand.

Keep in mind I still don't particularly understand the technical specifications, but I noticed that the RTi series are 8 Ohm/89dB Efficiency speakers... whereas the LSi series are 4 Ohm/88dB Efficienty speakers.

Isn't Ohmage one of the most important things? How come they're more expensive and half the Ohmage? Will my Pioneer 1014 Receiver even do 4-Ohm or just 8-Ohm? Also, are any of the LSi floor speakers bi-ampable?


*** Edit 1 hr. Later ***

I've done a bunch of reading on the forums here on the LSi line, and it seems 4 Ohm isn't necessarily inferior to 8 Ohm, but it does require a SERIOUS amplifier, and NOT a Receiver (even if I bought a pre-amp down the road)

Not to mention the fact that it seems my Pioneer 1014 Receiver can't even *do* 4 Ohms... so maybe that immediately rules out the LSi series.

The reason I was seriously considering the LSi is because (as I'm sure is the case with everyone) I wanted to buy a system I wouldn't have to ever upgrade

Alas, such a goal is probably unattainable. Someone mentioned on here though that down the road I may want to upgrade my RTi line to the LSi, so I just figured "Well if I want to spend the money once and have no regrets, maybe it's worth the jump in price now."

My impression of the LSi line so far (from reading on here) is that they're good on low volumes, and for vocal music... but they don't have the punch that the RTi line have. So I suppose if I want speakers that can handle EVERYTHING it's most likely going to be the RTi line?

And instead of spending $4000 on the LSi line, I could spend have that on the RTi line and be just as happy/impressed...possibly even more so?

bigsexy1

Laura, your reading from searching here is absolutely correct, the Pioneer receiver is most definitely NOT for the 4 OHM LSis.

My $.02, the RTi series is just flat out better anyway on dynamic movie soundtracks. I know some here might strongly disagree with that, while others might agree.

Also, on rock music, I also feel the Rtis are better than the LSis.

For now, I feel the RTis are the right ones for you, and that would be the move you should make.

I also believe that once you have the 12s set up and bi-amped with that feature on your Pioneer receiver, you will like them better than the 8s, especially on 2 channel stereo. But you are definitely doing the smart thing to compare them together side by side against each other in your room on your receiver to see which you will actually like the best. That way, you won't always be wondering "what if?".

Maybe somewhere down the line if you get the itch to upgrade, just keep the RTi/receiver based system you are now building for movies, and just build you a whole other 2 channel system with a pair of LSi and seperates.

Much less expensive that way and you have the best of both worlds.

wingnut4772

I can only compare my LSIs to the RTI100s that I have. I am not sure if their sound is anything like the other RTIs but the LSIs are way better .

The only downside to them is that they are not too efficient and you will definitely need to get an amp. If your Pioneer has 'pre outs' you can add an amp to it but we are talking $$$$. I ran mine with a 100 w per channel Outlaw Audio 7100 which you can get now for about $825.00 ( B Stock.)
http://www.outlawaudio.com/holiday-sale.html#

They sounded really good with that amp but I since replaced it with an Outlaw 770 ( 200 w -300 @ 4ohms) and now I think they sound their best. Most Outlaws though are very happy running them with the 7100.

For the $$$$The LSIs are Polks best speaker by far and they rock a soundtrack. (Just ask my neighbors!)
And I know good speakers because I have owned Sonus Faber.

Don't worry about returning the others but I would give them some reasonable break in time. The LSIs take a little break in time also.

The only thing I might do differently (still debating) is get an LSI9 for the center instead of the LSIC.

Keep us posted.
:cool:

disneyjoe7

Originally posted by wingnut4772
I can only compare my LSIs to the RTI100s that I have. I am not sure if their sound is anything like the other RTIs but the LSIs are way better .

:cool:

Wingnut,

Can you say more has far as the LSi's vs. RTi100's what do you like better about them.

Laura Palmer

I've also realized recently that considering the amount of SACD/DVDA music I'd be listening to, (only a few CDs interest me in the selection really) it seems as though I'm probably better to be buying the FXi5's correct? Cost isn't a concern, as I'm sure you've gotten by now

My final setup is looking like this
RTi12 (Front)
FXi5 (Back)
CSi5 (Center)

Which is a lot different than the setup I *thought* I had finalized over 24 hours ago... which was:

RTi8 (Front)
RTi6 (Back)
CSi5 (Center)

The package on top is clearly the winner right? Cause now that I've returned everything I think I'm gonna go FXi from all I've read.

jdhdiggs

To properly go the route with LSi's will cost about double what the RTi setup will cost. This is not just due to the spekaers, but as you identified, the amplifier sections must also be upgraded and you must have a well behaved sub, if one is used.

If used on appropriate amplification, the LSi's will be just as lively as the RTi series and more accurate. This will also show any short comings in your system (wires, CD-DVD player, etc...) causing more upgrades.

If I were you, I would stick with the RTi line until you've heard more and better in home demos of other speakers and "find your sound". Then you can go get the big $$$ items and recover a decent amount of the money invested (Probably come out even at accomidation pricing)

jdhdiggs

Just saw that you are going back to the 12's... I'm going to take a wild swing and say even "bi-amping" you won't be satisfied with them. Bigger speaker / better specs do not make a better speaker. To get the right amplification, your back into LSi price range.

As for sitting your TV on a Sub, definite no-no with CRT. I can't imagine it would be good for a DLP TV either (durability on the magnets pull on the mirrors) If you decide to go that route, put a grounded conductor between your TV and Sub to minimize the interference as much as possible.

Laura Palmer

Well it's not payed for and done with, but it's the way that I am *leaning*

I am still planning on taking them home very soon to try them out with my specific setup in my own living room. I'm assuming though that the RTi12's properly bi-amped with my 1014 receiver will sound at least as good as the 8's if not better...and knowing that down the road if I buy a pre-amp that the RTi12's will sound EVEN better.

marker

Originally posted by Laura Palmer
I've also realized recently that considering the amount of SACD/DVDA music I'd be listening to, (only a few CDs interest me in the selection really) it seems as though I'm probably better to be buying the FXi5's correct? Cost isn't a concern, as I'm sure you've gotten by now

My final setup is looking like this
RTi12 (Front)
FXi5 (Back)
CSi5 (Center)

Which is a lot different than the setup I *thought* I had finalized over 24 hours ago... which was:

RTi8 (Front)
RTi6 (Back)
CSi5 (Center)

The package on top is clearly the winner right? Cause now that I've returned everything I think I'm gonna go FXi from all I've read.

Laura if you will be doing a lot of SACD and DVD audio listening, the RTi6 surrounds will be better than the FXi.

I also agree with jdhdiggs, if you get LSi speakers, you will have to at least probably quadruple your electronics budget over the Pioneer 1014 receiver which runs about $400 US.


PS- Laura I also feel you are doing the smart thing in comparing the RTi12 and the Rti8 in your own house on your system to see which you will like best. That is the ONLY way to do it.

wingnut4772

Well let's see....the RTI100s compared to the LSI15s...hmmmmm. The RtIs are warmer and not as transparent. A little on the veiled side perhaps? I can hear details better on the LSIs and little things in soundtracks that I had missed before are now more clear and audible.
The Bass on the LSIs is tighter and more precise and they also tend to give more of a 'live' feel to the music -as if the performer is actually in the room.
Not as much as say Sonus Faber (which is known for that) but a lot more than the RTI100s.
And-last but not least- the LSIs have a much better soundstage and better imaging than the RTI100s.

disneyjoe7

Wingnut,

Thanks, that statement makes me think about going out to hear them for my self.

michael_w

If I were you I'd stick the the smaller RTI's because all the LSI's are power hungry and need something more than a receiver which would really boost the cost of your system (even the little LSI 7's which I learned from experiance...). As jdhdiggs said... the LSI's are great speakers but they will certainly let you know if you need to upgrade something because they are such accurate and clear speakers.

jdhdiggs

Originally posted by Laura Palmer
I'm assuming though that the RTi12's properly bi-amped with my 1014 receiver will sound at least as good as the 8's if not better...and knowing that down the road if I buy a pre-amp that the RTi12's will sound EVEN better.

Well, that's the best way to do it. See if you can borrow someones electronics to really see what the 12's can do so that you don't buy them hoping that they will become the "Holy Grail" when powered by a better front end. If you borrow the system, you can now exactly what you'd get.

Also, once you buy proper electronics and amps for the 12's, you could have a really decent LSi setup for the same $$$. Just another thing to further confuse you.

wingnut4772

I asked about bi-amping my LSIs before (something I was willing to try). Many people suggested that passive bi-amping would yield no sonic benefits. Only when you actually change the speaker crossover will it be worth it. I am not very clear on this but it may be something you want to check out.

Laura Palmer

Just out of curiosity, if you're attaching a pre-amp for your speakers, it really doesn't matter what kind of receiver you have does it?

Technically it wouldn't really make sense for me to spend $1,700 on a Harmon Kardon 635 because the goal isn't to use the power on the receiver, but instead use a real amplifier correct?

Best to save your money whenever you can and put less into your receiver I would imagine?

michael_w

A receiver is a pre-amp, amplifier and tuner all in one. When you use a seperate pre-amp you won't be using your receiver. However, what people are suggesting is that you could use the receiver for just the pre-amp part of it and then use an external amplifier to power your speakers. You do this by attaching the Pre-Outs of your receiver to an external amplifier. If you plan on going seperates (seperate pre-amp and amplifier and no receiver) don't put money into a receiver. Hope that clears up a little...

Laura Palmer

Oh I see, so what I'm searching for is an "amplifier" and attaching my speakers to the amplifier, then I'm sending the signal from my amplifier's RCA out into my "Pre-Amp" RCA plugs on my receiver.

Did I get that right?

Doesn't that mean that it's all being converted to analog then? Won't I be losing the digital connection from my DVD player to my receiver?

Laura Palmer

Who are some companies that make good amplifiers?

Also, please refrain from suggesting the ones that are $10,000+

:P

danger boy

amps don't change much from year to year.. like say.. receivers or pre amps.. etc. so even if you find a used amp that's several years old. it should sound pretty good.

Lots of people use Adcom, Rotel, Parasound, Phase Linear, Carver, Bryston, NAD, B&K, etc. so many to choose from.

disneyjoe7

Originally posted by Laura Palmer
Oh I see, so what I'm searching for is an "amplifier" and attaching my speakers to the amplifier, then I'm sending the signal from my amplifier's RCA out into my "Pre-Amp" RCA plugs on my receiver.

Did I get that right?

Almost, I would have worded it differently but I think you have the idea right. To state it differently Pre out from receiver to the Pre in on amp.

Originally posted by Laura Palmer
Doesn't that mean that it's all being converted to analog then? Won't I be losing the digital connection from my DVD player to my receiver?

Well ya but..... All music is analog if you thinking about it, the stuff you hear anyway.


I run something like that right now an Onkyo receiver driving a Parasound / HALO amp (sweet I'm telling you) I listen to my Sony 300 CD changer a lot, but I listen to the CD changer via to optical input on the receiver. The receiver is converting the digital input back to an analog pre amp out, the internal amp, and or both.

wingnut4772

I had an Onkyo receiver that had pre outs and I bought an Outlaw Audio 7100 amp and hooked it up . It was a pretty nice upgrade and my first step into separates. I will never go back. Outlaw has some good deals on this amp right now. http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/7100.html

For the money they are terrific and sound pretty good with Polks.

Laura Palmer

I did it! I'm all done putting together my first speaker package!

I decided on the following:

RTi12 Front
RTi6 Back
CSi5 Center

Now all I have to do is decide on a TV, Receiver, and Sub... hee hee.

I heard the Pioneer 1015 is better for HT, yet the HK635 is better for music. If there's any truth to that, I may just have to bite the bullet on the HK635 since music is more important to me. I just hope the difference in sound is worth the extra $500 or so.

P.S. Sorry to ressurect a dead thread

Willow

Good job Laura. Once you get the receiver and sub, let the fun begin

cnjvh

Originally posted by Laura Palmer
I did it! I'm all done putting together my first speaker package!

I decided on the following:

RTi12 Front
RTi6 Back
CSi5 Center

As you can see in my sig I've got the CSi5 and 4 RTi6 for surrounds and I think you've made a great choice. I absolutely love the detail these bring to movies.

After you get everything set up and calibrated, watch the "fighting in the rain" scene in Hero - it'll make you smile for sure :-)

I watch mostly movies so I went with the more affordable RTi8's for the front. I don't beleive they are as good as the 12's will be for music but they definately sound great to me in plain ol stereo mode.

cfrizz

Way to go Laura!

Don't forget to post pictures when it is all set up. And a report on how you like it!:D

Cathy

Laura Palmer

I promise...I will.

Thanks again to everyone!

Tequila

Hey Laura,

A year after...
Where are you?