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  • Laura Palmer
    Laura Palmer Posts: 124
    edited March 2005
    Hmm, well I've been able to follow most of this I think.

    But just to make sure, is the verdict that bi-amping is safe? Cause frankly I agree, 5.1 is all that's really necessary and I doubt I'd ever care about 7.1

    So if I can use those plugs to power the RTi12's closer to what they SHOULD be powered, I think it's a much smarter alternative.

    Good suggestion, I didn't know they amp would do that!

    Plus that saves me the hassle of trying to decide whether I should by FXi5's or not :)

    Oh and I may look at Velodyne Subs afterall. I had no idea they were THAT important in a setup considering I care more for music than movies and I can live without the apartment "rumble" but I'll take all of your advice and invest in a good sub I think.

    Although I would like to think that I would be happy enough with the PSW12, I'll see what Velodyne has to offer cause I know Future Shop has those also.

    It's undisputably better to get a 12" as opposed to a 10" or 8" though right?

    I mean an 8" Velodyne won't be better than the Polk PSW12" I'm looking at will it? Keep in mind I dont' know much about subwoofers and how you judge quality :)

    Thanks!
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  • Shizelbs
    Shizelbs Posts: 7,433
    edited March 2005
    Originally posted by Laura Palmer
    It's undisputably better to get a 12" as opposed to a 10" or 8" though right?

    Nope. I would gladly trade in my 12" sub for several other 8" or 10" subs. I think this is just a selling point for retailers. Of the subs on my list to buy in the future, I don't think I could tell you with any certainty what the size of the driver is.

    I wouldn't be too concerned about the size of the sub.
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  • bigsexy1
    bigsexy1 Posts: 557
    edited March 2005
    Originally posted by F1nut
    Direct from NHT's website........

    "Overview:

    For those with larger rooms who prefer the placement simplicity and sound of a full frequency point-source speaker, the NHT offers the T6 Tower system.

    The T6 combines the Evolution M6 monitor with its own sonically and cosmetically matched powered subwoofer, ( B6 bass module). This tower configuration employs four 12" woofers, combining high aesthetic value and full range response -- with output levels required to fill large spaces -- in one package."

    Once again, what part of powered towers don't you understand?

    Well mr nut, I see you have taken me off ignore. Again. What part of a seperate OUTBOARD amp AND crossover do YOU not understand?

    As for you Troy, do I have to sick Sid on you? Again? LOL!

    Shack, the Evolution subs are sealed. Also, those specs on that Pioneer receiver are from an actual benchtest by HTM. Just follow the links somebody else posted earlier on in the thread on it.

    Laura, it is safe to biamp providing you do correctly. If you are only using a 5.1 speaker system, and you have that Pioneer receiver that allows this feature, then by all means, take advantage of it instead of letting those 2 unused amp channels go to waste.
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,791
    edited March 2005
    NHT Monitors on Sub thing again?? JEEZ folks...get over it!
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • TroyD
    TroyD Posts: 13,092
    edited March 2005
    Whatever, I could care less.

    However, I would suggest with a receiver, the LESS you tax it (ie trying to biamp it) the better off you are.

    BDT
    I plan for the future. - F1Nut
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,757
    edited March 2005
    Yeah, I admit it. I had to sneek a peek to see what mis-information you were posting now. Looks like more of the same from you......big surprise! You've got other respected/knowledgable forum members and the manufacturer telling you that they are powered towers and yet you refuse to accept that you are wrong. IMO, that makes you a clueless crackpot.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • bigsexy1
    bigsexy1 Posts: 557
    edited March 2005
    Originally posted by mr nut
    Yeah, I admit it. I had to sneek a peek to see what mis-information you were posting now. Looks like more of the same from you......big surprise! You've got other respected/knowledgable forum members and the manufacturer telling you that they are powered towers and yet you refuse to accept that you are wrong. IMO, that makes you a clueless crackpot.

    So said the pot to the kettle. Little doggy.
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  • marker
    marker Posts: 1,084
    edited March 2005
    Thank you jdhdiggs for clarifying that. I had always wondered about that.

    And for crying out loud, the NHT T6 is not a powered tower by any means, at least not in the conventional sense, and if someone wants to claim it is, so what? They are still awesome either way. I'd sure love to have a pair, powered tower or not.

    Laura, I do agree that if you get the Rti12 and the Pioneer 1014, then go for using the bi-amp feature for the 12s, if you do a 5.1 speaker set up that is. That should be enough power to run the 12s as "large" or full range.
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,791
    edited March 2005
    *sigh*

    The manufacturer dosnt really say it is a tower dude...

    This is hardly calling it a TOWER...

    "Tower *System*"

    "Tower *Configuration*"

    The fact is....its a bookshelf....on top of a subwoofer. The subwoofer has an outboard amp and crossover...its not even powered...if the amp was thrown off a building leaving the subwoofer crying for it to come back...its be passive 100%...

    If you were to take a sledge hammer and bust the subwoofer to bits and pieces...that monitor is still gonna be there playing...its gonna be a monitor...

    Same goes for the monitor being sold and the sub still playing...

    Its nothing more than a seperate subwoofer designed to match that Monitor while it sits on top of it...

    It would be a powered towers...IF...

    1) Ther tower had one set of hook ups instead of 2 sets (one for speakers, and one for sub)

    2) It was all in one cabinet with a built on amp

    Which it dosnt have either...

    Its a "SYSTEM" and a "CONFIGURATION" ...

    Sure...when you put that system/configuration together, it "makes" a quasi tower...but thats kind of like saying if I took a PSW 404 and put the LSi9 on top of it...that i am making a LSi25...its just not a tower...its more like a glorfified stand...

    We can spout this continuously...but you obviously have the mind set it is a tower...so be it...its not... never will be...

    The SRT...its not a tower. Polk dosnt advertise it as a tower either!

    They advertise it as a Sat On Sub System, when put together - it is a quasi tower...


    RT3000P is the same way, if you removed the sub, the top portion still works, as does the bottom...

    If you were to cut a LSi25 in half...it would be worth nothing and work none...

    PS: If this is yalls way of putting BS in check...its a real poor attempt...IMO
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • Seggy
    Seggy Posts: 22
    edited March 2005
    Laura,

    Here's the straight dope:

    Your Pioneer receiver is an excellent choice.

    RTi8's - Front
    RTi6's - Rear
    CSi5 - Center
    HSU STF-2 or SVS PB10-ISD Subwoofer
    Pioneer DV-578AS DVD Player
    Signal Cable Wires/Cables

    Stick with a 5.1 system 'cuz 7.1 systems are overrated plus your
    room will be too small.


    Seggy.
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,757
    edited March 2005
    You've got a big bag of NOTHING, as usual. :rolleyes:

    Sid,

    "The Evolution T6 configuration combines the M6 monitor with the B6 bass module. The two components bolt together to form an integrated, high output tower loudspeaker."

    One piece, two piece, three piece, it's still a powered tower.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • marker
    marker Posts: 1,084
    edited March 2005
    Who really cares if the NHT is a powered tower or not? Let's please keep Laura's thread on course with it's original topics, which as I recall, had absolutely nothing to do with NHT.
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  • PolkThug
    PolkThug Posts: 7,532
    edited March 2005
    Doh! Not getting the FXi5's??! They make awesome 4/5 channel.
    Never Forget
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  • TroyD
    TroyD Posts: 13,092
    edited March 2005
    Back to the topic of biamping with a receiver and why I would NOT do it.....

    I draw the analogy (somewhat flawed but bare with me) of receivers and amps to engines.

    Generally speaking, a power amp will be more equivalent to a big 8cyl engine whereas a receiver amp is more like a 4 cyl engine. Yes, the 4cyl will propel you at 75mph, however, it must work a lot harder to do so and probably will wear out faster. The less you make it work, the better it will perform and so forth.

    Can you do it? Sure. Just because you can, does it make it a 'better' situation? Not always.

    BDT

    My last thought on the NHT beating is I don't really care. My only point is, and always has been, it's not a conventional 3-way design you can argue it any way you want but it just isn't so.
    I plan for the future. - F1Nut
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  • bigsexy1
    bigsexy1 Posts: 557
    edited March 2005
    Originally posted by TroyD
    Back to the topic of biamping with a receiver and why I would NOT do it.....

    I draw the analogy (somewhat flawed but bare with me) of receivers and amps to engines.

    Generally speaking, a power amp will be more equivalent to a big 8cyl engine whereas a receiver amp is more like a 4 cyl engine. Yes, the 4cyl will propel you at 75mph, however, it must work a lot harder to do so and probably will wear out faster. The less you make it work, the better it will perform and so forth.

    Can you do it? Sure. Just because you can, does it make it a 'better' situation? Not always.

    BDT

    My last thought on the NHT beating is I don't really care. My only point is, and always has been, it's not a conventional 3-way design you can argue it any way you want but it just isn't so.

    Troy, actually, I agree with you to a certian extent about what you just wrote on biamping with a receiver. But the 2 channel measurement on that particular receiver was 121.2 x 2, and it speced out at 115 some x 5. So driving the mains in "2 channel" stereo mode in the bi-amp configuration would still be at least 230 some watts per speaker instead of 121.2, and on the 12s if she gets them, that would be a big advantage.

    As for the NHTs, if you care so little about it as you claim, then why do you keep going on about it then?

    With that, as for me on this debate about NHTs, I'm out on it like mr nut's medication.
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  • cfrizz
    cfrizz Posts: 13,415
    edited March 2005
    Have you decided what the final configuration of your setup is going to be yet?

    When will you get it? Will there be pictures? And we will expect a detailed report of your thoughts once you have time to give it a thorough test run!
    Marantz AV-7705 PrePro, Classé 5 channel 200wpc Amp, Oppo 103 BluRay, Rotel RCD-1072 CDP, Sony XBR-49X800E TV, Polk S60 Main Speakers, Polk ES30 Center Channel, Polk S15 Surround Speakers SVS SB12-NSD x2
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  • TroyD
    TroyD Posts: 13,092
    edited March 2005
    Originally posted by bigsexy1
    Troy, actually, I agree with you to a certian extent about what you just wrote on biamping with a receiver. But the 2 channel measurement on that particular receiver was 121.2 x 2, and it speced out at 115 some x 5. So driving the mains in "2 channel" stereo mode in the bi-amp configuration would still be at least 230 some watts per speaker instead of 121.2, and on the 12s if she gets them, that would be a big advantage.

    It's not a question so much of if the receiver is in fact capable as much as how much real benefit there is and at what capacity is the receiver operating? (sort of like sure, a yugo can do 80mph but is doing at at 10K rpms really worth it?)

    Hey, do what you want, I'm just giving my slant on it.

    BDT
    I plan for the future. - F1Nut
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  • bigsexy1
    bigsexy1 Posts: 557
    edited March 2005
    Point duly noted and taken Troy, but the 12s do need all the power they can get to shine to their true bass capabilities.
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  • TroyD
    TroyD Posts: 13,092
    edited March 2005
    Again, I'll disagree.

    I'll use my SRS 2.3tl's as an example, going VERY unscientifically, a little while ago I decided to use the V/U meters on my amp as a guage and with the most bass-heavy tracks I have (William Tell, Mag 7, Jurrasic Lunch) I never broke 10 wpc with peaks of 50. Even doubling that, 100wpc with a db of headroom is MORE than enough amp.

    Besides, biamping has nothing to do with increased power consumption.

    BDT
    I plan for the future. - F1Nut
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  • shack
    shack Posts: 11,154
    edited March 2005
    As far as the Pioneer is concerned...the VX-52-TX and the VSX-1014TX-K are not exactly the same recievers as marker asserted and provided the HTM link to. The VX-52-TX is their Elite series and VSX-1014TX-K is not. The difference between receivers with the same bells and whistles is usually in the power supply. As I recall the difference between the Elites and non-Elites is substantial. And, the US MSRP for the VSX-1014TX-K is $500 and $1,000 for the Elite. If you would like another clue, the 1014 weighs in at 19.75 lbs. and the 52 at a little over 34 lbs. Wanna guess where the extra weight is? Power supply maybe? If they are the same then Pioneer is certainly taking advantage of their Elite customers. The VSX-1014TX-K appears to be a fine entry level 7.1 AVR. Having said that, I'll still bet that the actual benchmark #s for that receiver are no where near the stated #s.
    "Just because you’re offended doesn’t mean you’re right." - Ricky Gervais

    "For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible." - Stuart Chase

    "Consistency requires you to be as ignorant today as you were a year ago." - Bernard Berenson
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  • marker
    marker Posts: 1,084
    edited March 2005
    Hi shack, they are in fact the same receiver except for a RS 232 or whatever port on the Elite model, and a few other minor differences.

    The weight is even the same. The info on Pioneer's website is incorrectly listed as 19.75 kilograms when it should have said pounds. It actually weighs the same as the Elite 52. They even have the exact same service manual. I personally e-mailed Pioneer and got a response that they are in fact identical in every way except for the finish, warranty period, and a zone 2 video output on the Elite model.

    Go to either AVS or HTF in the receiver and amp sections and do a search for Pioneer 1014 and see for yourself as this has been very well documented at either board, including Pioneer reps themselves.
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  • Laura Palmer
    Laura Palmer Posts: 124
    edited March 2005
    Hey all... I've narrowed it down to the RTi8s versus the RTi12s.
    I've already purchased the CSi5 and the RTi6s. The subwoofer I'll have to wait on also because I don't feel as though I'm making an informed enough decision just yet, and I don't mind waiting.

    Unfortunately it won't be setup up for another 4-5 months because that's when I move to Toronto. Until then, most will probably remain in boxes. But I will be taking pictures when it's all up, and I'll let you all know what I've purchased at the end of it all.

    It's actually looking an awful lot like what Seggy said.

    RTi8's (or RTi12s) - Front
    RTi6's - Rear
    CSi5 - Center
    HSU, SVS, or still maybe a Polk Subwoofer
    Pioneer DV-578AS (Or the DV-588AS, next month's replacement)
    Accoustic Research Cables (Cause they're already purchased)

    The fact that I can bi-amp the RTi12s is actually a big "plus" even though I haven't heard them yet. It just sounds like such a great idea instead of having those two amp channels be unused.

    Still though, I probably should listen to the RTi12's first considering I was disappointed a bit by the RTi10's.

    Oh and if the PSW12 isn't very good, how are these Velodyne Subs... Velodyne DPS-10B or the DPS-12B Subwoofer? I've been wanting to maximize at every angle (which is why I've considered all the way up to the RTi12s really) but If I can save space on the sub it'd be nice. Cause I'd rather not have it take up too much room.

    If the Velodyne subs still aren't adequate, does anyone in the Ottawa (or Toronto) area know of any SVS or HSU dealers? I'm hoping to not have to pay more than CAD$500 or CAD$600 for the sub if possible.
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  • marker
    marker Posts: 1,084
    edited March 2005
    Sounds good Laura! I still vote for the RTi12 though. It has the best of both worlds, the mids of the Rti8 and even better bass than the Rti10.

    Also, I strongly re-urge you to get a SVS PB10 ISD instead of any comparably priced Polk or Velo. sub!
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  • Laura Palmer
    Laura Palmer Posts: 124
    edited March 2005
    Excellent, do you know of any Canadian e-tailers for that model? I don't mind buying online if I have to.

    By buying a 10-inch Sub am I not doing the rest of my speakers justice though? I wouldn't want the 10-inch sub to be considered "a weak link" when I should've spent an extra hundred dollars on a 12-inch or something. And oddly, I feel the same way about the RTi8's and the fact that they're 2-way.

    I know you guys have tried to tell me that 12-inch isn't necessarily better than 10-inch, and 3-way isn't necessarily better than 2-way...but I can't seem to shake this ridiculous mentality of mine :)
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  • Laura Palmer
    Laura Palmer Posts: 124
    edited March 2005
    Oh one more thing. If I'm bi-amping the RTi12's is it a good idea to purchase a Service Plan for those speakers? I don't want to blow the speakers or damage them in any way by bi-amping. The 9-year Service Plan seems pretty damn cheap.
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  • marker
    marker Posts: 1,084
    edited March 2005
    Oh, that's something I didn't think about, that you are in Canada. I think the only way to get SVS is to order them straight from SVS themselves. I think there was one other place that had them for sale, plasmadocs, or something like that?

    Go to SVSubwoofers.com and see what they can do for you in shipping to Canada.

    I used to have a Velodyne CHT-15 sub, and the "little" 10" SVS will trounce it.
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  • marker
    marker Posts: 1,084
    edited March 2005
    I don't think you's need an extended warranty on passive speakers. I'd only look into that if they were powered towers with their own built in amps (much like the NHTs:rolleyes: )
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  • AsSiMiLaTeD
    AsSiMiLaTeD Posts: 11,728
    edited March 2005
    I haven't read through all the posts here, but I'm always a fan of running smaller front speakers (or larger ones set to 'small') along with a good sub...yes, even for music...

    Maybe look at the RTi8 along with a good sub, you get the most bang for your buck that way IMO
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  • michael_w
    michael_w Posts: 2,813
    edited March 2005
    HSU subs in Canada link I belive these people are out of Toronto. They seem to have pretty good prices and claim to be a registered hsu dealer. I think I'll get my hsu stf-3 or something similar from these people in a few months.

    btw I replaced two ten inch subs for an eight and it was definately a good upgrade.
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  • HBombToo
    HBombToo Posts: 5,256
    edited March 2005
    I figured I'd be post# 150:D

    good Lord.... I have not seen this kind of attention to a post in a while

    HBomb
    ***WAREMTAE***
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