4 ohm reciever?

aequitas

Just got a pair of the lsi9s and have a receiver question now.

currently i have the onkyo 502, not bad but still entry level. My concern is whether or not this will run the lsi9s which are 4 ohms. Here is the spec sheet:

http://www.us.onkyo.com/model.cfm?m=TX-SR502&p=f&class=Receiver

it seems like this will run on 4ohms from that, but im not sure im reading that right because 4ohms on a lower end reciever surprises me i guess. The other issue im not sure about is whether or not i can run the lsi9s at 4 ohms with some other speakers at 8ohms.

if you guys had any thoughts/suggestions that would be appreciated. Perhaps there is a relatively inexpensive reciever (ie under $500) that would be worth upgrading to.

My other thought was to steal my parents hk 235 however the specs dont seem to indicate that it could run the 4ohm load

http://www.harmankardon.com/specifications.aspx?Region=USA&Country=US&Language=ENG&cat=REC&ser=&prod=AVR%20235&sType=S

it does have preouts so could i just get a 4 ohm amp to run the lsi9s? how much would one of those run me...just need 2 channel?


lot of questions from a relative noob in the audio world.

okiepolkie

Your Onkyo or HK will probably handle the LSi9's, but only at low volumes. You will probably damage the Onkyo if you use it long term. You are also limiting the sound quality the LSi's can produce with more power.

Your most reasonable solution at this point would be to trade your parents for the HK, then buy an external two channel(or more) amplifier for the LSi9's. The HK would work in this respect because it has pre-amp outputs all around. If you think you might go with an LSiC later, then a multichannel amp now would a better investment now.

You can try the Onkyo initially, but I think you will be happier with better amplification that can actually handle 4 ohms loads.

2+2

I read the opposite...the Onkyo seems to indicate that it cant handle 6 or 4 ohms since the "4 ohm capable" is not checked. I dont know if the 502 can handle the load but FYI, I have a 110w/ch receiver running LSi7 just fine.
I also have the 230 and ran LSi15s for about a month befor getting a Rotel....the HK sounds awesome and handled the load better than a Rotel 1075 (120w/ch) for music. Needless to say, I returned it to get a 1080 (200w/ch) which sounds the best....give your Onk a try but if your parents will let you trade, I would trade.

TheReaper

Copied from the Onkyo 502 pdf manual:

Only use speakers with an impedance of 6 ohms or higher. Connecting speakers with an impedance of less than 6 ohms may damage the TX-SR502/TX-SR502E.

aequitas

good catch reaper....although i am courious why the spec sheet seems to indicate it can run a 4 ohm load, but im probably just not understanding/reading that properly.

so it seems like ill probably swap out recievers with the rents, but thatll have to wait till spring break when i go back home. in the mean time, does anyone know how much damage will happen if i do run the 4 ohms off the onkyo?

Mjr7531

Because they can run at 4 ohms.
Analogy time:
Just because you can drive a luxury car at 179 MPH doesn't mean you should all the time.
You'll be fine if you run them quietly at 4 ohms, I would just try to get an amp rated for it asap.

shack

IMO there is no sub $500 A/V receiver out there today that will do the LSI9s justice. Kinda like putting 87 octane pump gas in a Pro Stock Dragster with a 16:1 compression ratio. It WILL run....just not very well and no where near it's potential.

Of the mass market guys....Denon, Yamaha, etc....only their flagships will even come close to being able drive the LSI9s right (and there are some that will question this). The only sub $500 A/V receiver I've heard of that will do 4 ohm is the old Outlaw 1050. NAD, Rotel, B&K and Sunfire....are mfgs that make a receiver that will do 4 ohm and help the LSI9s sing. However, unless you can find one used...$500 won't get you there. Of course this is just my opinion, but given your parameters....I would use the pre-outs and get a good 2 channel amp...even if it is used, before I would try to push them with a mid to low level Denon, Yamaha, Onkyo, HK, Pioneer, etc...etc...etc...

Others may want to chime in here but I would look for a good Parasound, Adcom, NAD 2 channel amp (used), I think you could find something very nice in the $300 - $500 range. I picked up a mint NAD C270 stereo amp that will drive the LSI9s very well for $325 so it can be done. Good luck.

shiu

Originally posted by 2+2
I also have the 230 and ran LSi15s for about a month befor getting a Rotel....the HK sounds awesome and handled the load better than a Rotel 1075 (120w/ch) for music.

That's interesting, I listened to several HK receivers in a few Future shop stores last year driving the RTi8 & 10. The only model that can do justice to the RTi10 was the AVR630. Even the AVR430 could not do it right. Assuming the LSi9 is a more difficult load than the 8 ohm RTi10, I don't think the AVR235 has the right amp for it. HK is high current capable, but that's on instantaneous basis, not continuous. If you want the LSi to sound good, the AVR235 will be fine as long as you pair it with a 2 channel power amp as others have suggested.

2+2

shiu...just reporting on my experience. Hk230 ran the LSi 15 with pretty nice sound. I will admit, it didnt go very loud at all and ran out of steam quickly but at my "normal" listening levels, it did fine for about a month I ran it. Never shut down. Maybe the long term effects would have fried the amp if I ran it longer. My Rotel 1080 goes much louder and sound is better with tighter bass...but it better sound good considering how much more it costs... :mad:

Early B.

Bottom line -- just get an amp for those 9's. Don't even bother with the Onkyo. Running high quality speakers (esp 4 ohm ones) through a receiver (esp. a low budget one) should not even be considered as an option. Follow the manufacturer's suggestions.

mantis

Bottom line -- just get an amp for those 9's. Don't even bother with the Onkyo. Running high quality speakers (esp 4 ohm ones) through a receiver (esp. a low budget one) should not even be considered as an option. Follow the manufacturer's suggestions.

Agreed. Why someone would drop a nice load of cash to own really nice speakers then cheap out on a low end receiver is way behond me.

If money is a problem then owning the Lsi series may not be for you. Rti series speakers are very nice and can run fine ( not there best) off a lower end receiver.

As said above there are cheaper options to getting it done without using a low end receiver. Used Rotel/NAD receivers are under a grand and will sound light years better then your local HK's and Onkyo's.

I say go for the Used Rotel rsx1055 and don't look back. You should beable to score one under a grand. Brand new the new model rsx1056 is only 1200.00. Another cheaper option that I would do If money was tight. You'll be happy you spend the extra cash.

Dan

TroyD

If you need just 2 channel, sell the receiver and save your pennies for an integrated amp or separates. All depends on what your budget is. Hold on to the LSi's, they are worth keeping.

BDT

B3Nut

IIRC that Onk 502 has preamp outs for the mains, so you could easily add a used Adcom or NAD or Parasound power amplifier for not too much cash. I bet LSi 9's would be happy with a GFA-545 (somewhere areound 100wpc with real current capability) driving them. HT receivers just don't like 4 ohm speakers, HT receivers are at their best driving 8 ohm dummy resistors at 1KHz one channel at a time.

The 502's a nice unit actually, add a power amp and you should be good.

TP

Danny Tse

No pre-amp outs on the 502, other than the subwoofer output.

marker

You can get a Onkyo TX-8511 2 channel stereo receiver cheap. I just picked one up at CC open box for $100. It is rated at 100 watts X 2 into 8 ohms and is supposed to be able to drive 4 ohm speakers. Plus it probably weighs more than your 502 AVR even though it's only 2 channels.

I'm just amazed at it's sound quality too. I use it drive a pair of Infinity Interlude 60. It replaced an old Adcom GTP-400 tuner/preamp and GFA-535 power amp combo that finally died on me, and I really can't tell all that much of a big diffrence in them. I'm sure the old Adcom seperates were better, but not by as much as you might think. I'm very pleased with it, especially for the money.

I really believe that short of a NAD integrated amp, this is probably about as good as it gets for new with full factory warranty inexpensive amplification.

At the very least, it would be a very good interim solution till you could save up for some seperates.

Danny Tse

I agree about the Onkyo TX-8511 stereo receiver. I used to have one and it's ultra smooth-sounding. Just look inside at its heat sinks....this is serious audio stuff inside. Probably one of the last mainstream stereo receivers out there.

marker

Danny, there were some other stereo receivers out there from HK, Denon, and Yamaha just to name a few, but nothing new for $100 though. If any of the others are better than the Onkyo, certianly not so much more as to justify 2 or 3 (or even more than that) times the price.

You say used to have one, why didn't you keep it?

Airplay355

try www.harmanaudio.com or www.ac4l.com if you want a cheap receiver with a warranty. its factory refurbsihed stuff though.

Danny Tse

marker,

I sold it because I was able to upgrade to a Cambridge Audio A500 integrated amp when those were being cleared out by Audio Advisor for $250.00 shipped. It sounded like a good price at the time, but in reality, I had to give up a phono stage, a tuner, and a much better remote (the Cambridge remote ONLY controls volume). Sound quality-wise, I'd say it's not that big of a difference. I would be happy if I still have the Onkyo right now. Sometimes, just can't fight the "upgrade bug".

I really don't believe any of the Denon, HK, or Yamaha is that much better than the Onkyo TX-8511. The Onkyo normally retails for $300.00 and I picked it up new from J&R for $250.00. Yes, the spring clips are cheap, but the whole thing is of good quality. Even has a dimmer, if I remember correctly. This thing is heavier than some of Onkyo's own home theater receivers and it's rated into 2 ohms. The Denon and the HK offer preouts (and even main-ins) but it comes down to whether you will use those features.

The only stereo receiver I know of that you can purchase for $100.00 is the Sherwood RD-4100/4103/4105. It's a legit piece of component and it sounds decent. Sherwood actually markets a better version of this stereo receiver in its Newcastle line for $200.00.

marker

Danny, when you put it in those terms about the tuner, remote and phono stage, you're right, all of the sudden it really wasn't as much of a bargian as it may have seemed to be on the surface after all to replace it. Especially if it really wasn't as much of an upgrade in sound quality as you anticipated it would be. I know mine more than holds it's own against the old Adcom seperates it replaced. It's not like the Adcoms were light years better or anything like that.

I agree with you about the HK, Denon, Yamaha, etc. probably is not really any better than the Onkyo. I do wish it had some of the features they do you have already mentioned though, like pre ins and outs and binding posts instead of spring clips for speaker wire. A sub out would have been nice too. I have the Onkyo MC35 TECH mini system in my office rig, and the little mini receiver has a sub out and binding posts while their top of the line stereo receiver does not. That just doesn't make sense.

For the spring clips, I found some 2 piece (instead of crimp style) pin connectors from Radio Shack that would accept 12 guage wire, so that pretty much eliminated that issue for me. I guess not having pre ins and outs is not really that big of a deal either, but I would have liked for it to have a sub out though.

I'm not familar with the Sherwood you speak of though.

Danny Tse

This is the Sherwood RD-4105 that I was talking about. Sherwood, despite being around for 50 years and being a huge OEM to more familiar brands, is not as high profile as Denon, Onkyo, Yamaha, etc., but they do build some solid inexpensive components.

The TX-8511, along with the 50 watts/channel TX-8211, have been in the Onkyo line for years without any changes. At least 4 years, if not more. If all one wants is a simple to operate, yet good sounding and inexpensive, stereo receiver, these Onkyo's are it. You have got yourself a great deal with your TX-8511, marker. Wow, to have something competitive with Adcom separates for $100.00....way cool!!

halo

I'm a big fan of Onkyo stereo recievers - the models they put out in the 80's. I started with the TX-830 when I was 13. It was a floor model and it sounds just as good today as it did then.

In the owners manual it shows the TX-850 also. It had a few extra features and I always wondered how big a difference there would be so I picked up an Onkyo Integra TX-108 used a few months back (it has the same extra features and then some vs. TX-850) and that thing puts out more power, weighs almost twice as much, and sounds better than the TX-830.

IMO they (Onkyo) just don't make 'em like they used to & its unfortunate.

I tried my Yamaha AVR w/ the same speakers (R50's) and it couldn't come close to either Onkyo.

I've never owned seperates before so I can't comment on how they sound.

aequitas

thanks for all the info guys. its not a matter of me trying to cheap out, just a matter of seeing if i could run these things with what i have. but since it seems like i shouldnt, im just gonna swap receivers with my parents over spring break and then get an amp. ill probably be looking for 3 channel amps so my entire front stage can be run off that (acurus, rotel, parasound, etc.) Im pretty new to this whole audio thing, all i really knew was that i heard the lsi9s and was blown away. so i picked up a set thinking i would figure out how to run them later (why think ahead on an impusle buy). so ill get the hk from the rents since it has the preouts and then ill be looking for at least a 3 channel amp in the mean time.

if they are only rated to 200 watts, does that mean i shouldnt be looking at amps that could give more than 200 in 4 ohms? would more damage them?

okiepolkie

Different from popular belief, more power has fewer possibilities of damaging your speakers than less power.
In other words, if you try to turn the volume up too much with low power, the amplifier begins to run out of energy and begins to distort. This is often the main cause of driver damage.
With a high powered amplifier, distortion sets in at much higher volumes.
In looking for a good amplifier, you want as many clean, well driven watts that you can afford.
In the end, you will do fine with 200 or more watts

bigsexy1

I have an Onk 8211, the smaller brother of the 8511 you all have. It is rated at 50 watts per channel. It doesn't have video switching (I believe the 8511 does?). Interestingly enough, it weighs the exact same as the 8511 even without the video switching which makes me wonder just how much difference there really is in their power they actually put out.

Some of you are right about the build quality. You can see it has quality caps, transformer, capicitors, and heatsinks in it.

I got mine open boxed at Circuit City for 99.99 or something like that. It even still had the plastic film on it you have to peel off of the front panel. I wish I could have found the 8511 for that price.

I wouldn't go so far as to say that it is as good as Adcom seperates, but it's not bad by any means.

I did have the Onk mini system, but I returned it when I found this receiver at this price. It alone weighed more than the whole Onk mini system put together, including speakers.

I also picked up an Onk 390 cd changer open boxed. It has Wolfson DACs in it.