Hero

brettw22

Originally posted by PhantomOG
to me it seems like alot of Americans have a very selective suspension of disbelief.

the general audience will watch movies like X-Men, Spiderman, James Bond flicks, or any pure American "action" movie where the main character gets through a myriad of impossible situations without even batting an eye. but for some reason, when they see someone flying through the air in a foreign flick like this one, the movie is immediately deemed crappy. i just don't get it. why do people believe in fantasies only in their native language?

With all due respect, that has got to be one of the most ignorant assumptions that I've ever read.

I didn't say I had a problem with the effect......I said it wasn't fluent. You don't physically fight with a group of people, they back off, then another guy steps up, more physical fighting, then take a break to fight in your head, then snap back to reality to continue the physical fighting. In ANY stretch of the imagination, that's broken up to the point of it not having a smooth flow.

I liked the way the movie was shot, and the overall look of the movie. The story seemed to jump around a bit which left me thinking that it was just done to extend the movie by watching scenes twice.

It was an ok movie, but to say that the reason people (or me specifically) didn't like it because it was foreign is assinine.

begbie

Originally posted by PhantomOG
to me it seems like alot of Americans have a very selective suspension of disbelief.

the general audience will watch movies like X-Men, Spiderman, James Bond flicks, or any pure American "action" movie where the main character gets through a myriad of impossible situations without even batting an eye. but for some reason, when they see someone flying through the air in a foreign flick like this one, the movie is immediately deemed crappy. i just don't get it. why do people believe in fantasies only in their native language?

Actually PhantomOG makes a valid point. In a general case (not directed at you Brett) I've come across people who couldn't get over the "flying" in Crouching Tiger or walking on water in HERO. Some just couldn't get into it just because of the subtitles.

Think it has something to do with the "wuxia" history that people need to understand first.

Demiurge

I guess what I said WTF? about was that I have no problem watching a movie like the Matrix, checking my brain at the door and enjoying the film. I own this one as well, but I understand the distinction with what Brett is saying. Just because you have real life defying stunts doesn't mean you throw reality completely out the window and don't have to have ANY continuity. Continuity is very important in movies that at least in the end you can piece it together and it can make some coherent sense.

So, I can definitely understand why some people wouldn't like that aspect of the movie. It's not like this transcends cultural bounds. Stupidity is stupidity.

begbie

Actually the Matrix is hardly a movie where you check your brain at the door. Alien vs. Predator, Van Helsing, or an older flick like Biodome (starring Pauly Shore!) I consider flicks as "no thinking required".

The Matrix asks you "what if" and suspend your interpetation of what's around you. Than it asks you to put it all back together of what's the "real world". It had all audiences at that time going "whoa" ?!

HERO is nothing new in storytelling but it is a refreshing (and glorious) spin on how to tell one.

PhantomOG

Originally posted by brettw22
With all due respect, that has got to be one of the most ignorant assumptions that I've ever read.

I didn't say I had a problem with the effect......I said it wasn't fluent. You don't physically fight with a group of people, they back off, then another guy steps up, more physical fighting, then take a break to fight in your head, then snap back to reality to continue the physical fighting. In ANY stretch of the imagination, that's broken up to the point of it not having a smooth flow.

I liked the way the movie was shot, and the overall look of the movie. The story seemed to jump around a bit which left me thinking that it was just done to extend the movie by watching scenes twice.

It was an ok movie, but to say that the reason people (or me specifically) didn't like it because it was foreign is assinine.

EDIT: ... my comment wasn't directed at you...

there are *other* posts in this thread. try reading them all. there is one post in particular that i am talking about. i personally have discussed the movie with other people who make the same remarks about the flying and instantly dismiss the movie for that reason alone.

begbie

I keep forgetting this is a foreign film. So watching it in it's orignal audio dialogue and english subtitles is a must for me.


Not directed at anyone here but an english audio dub I feel takes you out of the movie experience. Try imagining Unforgiven, Star Wars, or Goddfellas, etc. with a French, German, or even Chinese audio dub and english subtitles ?! That's just not "right".

PhantomOG

Originally posted by begbie
I keep forgetting this is a foreign film. So watching it in it's orignal audio dialogue and english subtitles is a must for me.


Not directed at anyone here but an english audio dub I feel takes you out of the movie experience. Try imagining Unforgiven, Star Wars, or Goddfellas, etc. with a French, German, or even Chinese audio dub and english subtitles ?! That's just not "right".

at least for me the spoken words not lining up with the lips is distracting so I would rather read subtitles. and from comparing subtitles to dubbing it seems that translations are a little better on the subtitles depending on the movie.

but it is only choosing the lesser of two evils to me. i think by having to focus on the bottom of the screen and reading everything i probably miss alot of important little things in the movie, such as subtle expressions in faces, backgrounds, etc.

PolkThug

I liked the flow of the movie and I liked the part where they imagine the moves. Its like in real life when getting ready for a wrestling or kickboxing match, you try to visualize your first moves, your oponents reaction, your counter, their counter, etc. Of course you don't play out the entire fight in your head, but you do think about the first crucial thirty seconds.

If anything, I'm irritated by the piss-poor PQ of the Miramax release. :mad:

kingtut

PolkThug, are you into martial arts? You know a lot about competing in a match.

PolkThug

Wrestled in school. Did about a year and a half of American kickboxing, which ended after I picked up a second job. Never got to fight in "the octagon", but I've bloodied a few people up in basements.

I highly recommend it to anyone if you can find somebody to train you. Its a great physical conditioner and you'll get a lot of confidence knowing that you could stand up for yourself in a physical confrontation.

Its been just over a year since I put on the gloves, so I would probably get my **** handed to me now.

kingtut

Originally posted by PolkThug
... I highly recommend it to anyone if you can find somebody to train you. Its a great physical conditioner and you'll get a lot of confidence knowing that you could stand up for yourself in a physical confrontation.

Its been just over a year since I put on the gloves, so I would probably get my **** handed to me now.

I agree, any type of martial arts, wrestling, kickboxing, etc are great workouts, along w/stress reduction. You pretty much have to practice everyday to improve. I don't practice outside of the class & get yelled at by the teacher all the times. I responded to the teacher that I'm lucky just to make it to class with a baby.

Sorry for the derail of the thread.

audiobliss

I would agree, also. I took Martial Arts lessons for about 3 years about 6 years ago (when I was around 10). I really enjoyed them. I can see that they'd help boost self-confidence. I got a junior black belt, but that was so long ago and I was so little then, I'm sure I don't know didley about it now....would love to do it again.....if I had time.......:rolleyes:

jdhdiggs

Originally posted by PolkThug
Wrestled in school. Did about a year and a half of American kickboxing, which ended after I picked up a second job. Never got to fight in "the octagon", but I've bloodied a few people up in basements.

I highly recommend it to anyone if you can find somebody to train you. Its a great physical conditioner and you'll get a lot of confidence knowing that you could stand up for yourself in a physical confrontation.

Its been just over a year since I put on the gloves, so I would probably get my **** handed to me now.

Totally agree! I wrestled for about 7yrs, did 2-3 yrs of Hap Ki Do and 3-4 of boxing. It is really funny when people think only size matters in fights.

Also, it is odd that the more damage you can do to a person, the less you want to do it and the less likely you are to get in a fight in the first place.

For getting in shape, I'd recommend Kung Fu, for self defense, Hap Ki Do all the way! (If it was what the Korean Royals and Monks learned, it's good enough for me...)

kingtut

Originally posted by jdhdiggs
...Also, it is odd that the more damage you can do to a person, the less you want to do it and the less likely you are to get in a fight in the first place...)

So true. It's best to walk away anyway.

mantis

The movie sucked . Crouching tiger not even close.

As a martial artist , I looked at it from that respect and still found it to suck deeply. Jet Li is very good but I get beat on all the wire work and way out fighting scenes.

The story could have been cool but they way it was laid out sucked.

I was so juiced for that movie after watching all the movie trailers, I ran out and picked it up the day it came out. I watched it and waited to like it. The end of the movie came and I sat there with a blank.

Most martial art movies aren't great. There has been few that where truely a great movie all around.This one my fellow members in My opnion is no where near.

I will not watch it again.Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon I have watched many times and will watch it again and again.

As far out as Crouching Tiger was , it still had a Martial flavor I enjoy. I would love to watch a true to the story Martial arts movie.

begbie

Too bad it was a big let down for ya Mantis. Oh well different strokes for different folks.

You might like Yimou's latest flick "House of Flying Daggers" as the director went for a direct contrast to Hero. Than again you're tired of all the wire-fu. Try "Ong Bak" with Tony Jaa?

jdhdiggs

Amazingly Mantis and I agree on this one. A lot of the scenery cinimatography was great, but the battles were not good at all other than the staff, sword fight near the beginning. The rest of the time I felt like "How can you not avoid the guy, he's flying through the air at 2MPH. Step out of the way and cut the morons head off". Far too much wire work that was way too slow.

Croucing tiger avoided this problem in that the slow wire work was mostly transportation in nature, rather than fighting. When it got to the trees, it wasn't that bad of a leap.

Dancing and floating over a lake in complete slow motion: Different story.

oh, I liked the fighting in the head... Just two athletes visualizing their victory. To me, it wasn't them concluding the fight against eachother, but rather each one imagining how the other will act and beating that.

kingtut

I agree w/Begbie. Mantis, check out Ong Bak. It's a Thai movie, with English subtitle -- of course. It's a much more realistic movie, with less wires. They claimed no wire, but there are some scenes that they have to use the wires. Tony Jaa's elbow strikes are to be seen. As with most martial arts movies, there is not much of a story. Picture quality and sound isn't that great either, but I appreciate this movie much more from a martial arts perspective.

avelanchefan

I'm with Mantis and JD on this one also. Hero just did not do it for me. CTHD I found more appealing. In fact I thought Hero was trying to hard to jump on CTHD coat tails.

A ton of wire scenes and the Cello work that mimmicked Yo-Yo Ma's excellent work in CTHD. Tan Dun (who scored Hero and CTHD) did not make a discernible difference between the two movies. I swore at times I was listening to the CTHD soundtrack.

This movie could have been so much more. But I am glad to see the effort out there from abroad to make great movies. I am looking forward to Yimou's Flying Dagger movie.

begbie

Any movie will have its detractors. For me HERO was fabulous but you don't have to take my word for it ! ( fans -[#124], critics )



As with House of Flying Daggers, I'm a Yimou fan but I don't think it was his best work. Still very enjoyable especially in dts-es !

begbie

...I thought Hero was trying too hard to jump on CTHD coat tails...

Yimou had his project in mind before CTHD. Ang Lee just beat him to the punch. Yimou than abandoned the movie but his colleagues encouraged him to go ahead with it . Even when he started HERO, he still had other people ranting on him of trying to repeat Ang Lee's success !?

Fact is - wuxia is a historical genre that no-one owns and Yimou went ahead with his project. To this day, Yimou actually thanks Ang Lee for opening the Hollywood door to wuxia !

...Tan Dun (who scored Hero and CTHD) did not make a discernible difference between the two movies.

Yes, Tan Dun is the composer for both movies. Do they they sound similar? Possibly. Though the primary instuments in CTHD were Yoyo Ma's cello and ancient Chinese chime bells and HERO had Itzhak Perlman's violin and Japanese taiko drums. BTW, the Japanese taiko drums were excellant !

For me, the score from HERO resonated more.