Help, problems with low volume dialogue on LsiC

Thumper1958

Hey All,

I've had my LSi7's and LSiC for a couple of weeks and I thought that I had a bad center (very little sound seemed to be comming from the left cone). Almost brought it back to Tweeter, but now after reading poeple having similar experiances I guess I'll hold on to it.
If I decide to replace the crossover with one from an LSi9, how much trouble is it to order one from Polk and what was the cost?
I'm sure that my warrenty would pretty much be out the window as well....
I had actually been thinking of purchasing another pair of LSi7s and using one for the center and one for the rear center. I went so far as to swap the center and one of the front and listen to a movie. ...let me tell you all, an LSi7 is NOT a good substitute for a LSiC!

regards,

Kevin

bbeacham

I have an LSiC and never notice that the sound appears to be more prevelant from one speaker and not the other. Are you guys noticing this from your sitting posistion, or are you putting your ear next to the speaker?

Thumper1958

...I had read something (somewhere) that mentioned that , at lower sound levels, the crossover could cause some strange listening experiances. So I sat down in front of the speaker pulled off the fabric front and sure enough, I found that the left mid-range cone was producing almost no sound. It appeared to be vibrating but I wasn't sure if it was just resonance from the other cone.
Did a search on this forum and here I am...a little dismayed with the odd crossover arrangement, but what can you do....

Kevin

Frank Z

Before you guy's start fiddling around with your speakers....
Cascade Tapered Array Crossover Technology

Thumper1958

...yes, I read the blurb about how it's supposed to work, but the bottom line is that one speaker is hardly being utilized (to my ear) and although it may seem logical on paper, it doesn't seem the design doesn't seem to be very effective to my ears.
I don't pretend to be an audiophile , just someone that can appreciate high quality sound....

Kevin

gtu2004

anyone has the solution to this yet? I have the same exact problem as Thumper. The left cone vibrates but not much sound is coming out. the sound is dwarfed by the right cone. the audio therefore does not sound very real let alone High definition.

Face

gtu2004 wrote: »

anyone has the solution to this yet? I have the same exact problem as Thumper. The left cone vibrates but not much sound is coming out. the sound is dwarfed by the right cone. the audio therefore does not sound very real let alone High definition.

That's how they're supposed to function. The second woofer acts as a helper woofer, for bass only.

McLoki

It runs out of one speaker for much of the bass frequencies by design. If you cross your center over at 80hz (pretty common in home theater settings) or higher, you are really not using that left speaker much. (it is only active from 200hz on down)

To be honest though - I have never had any problem with it as I sit much further back that the 1 - 2' required to tell what speaker is producing what frequencies....

How far back are you sitting from your center channel? How does it sound (clear, crisp, muffled, distorted, just to darn quiet, etc.)? what problem are you trying to solve?

I upgraded the crossover in my LSiC (and in the process discovered EXACTLY what the difference is between and LSi9 and LSiC crossover) and the sound is now coming through more clear and crisp than before (with much more detail), but to be honest, I thought it was pretty darn good before I did the upgrade.

If you sit in your normal listening position - what is wrong with the sound you are hearing? Give us that and we will try and help you out with a solution. By design the left woofer plays less info than the right - also by design it sounds pretty darn high definition. If it doesn't at your place, something is wrong. Give us more info and we will help you find out what it is....

(pics may help as well)

Michael

gtu2004

hey guys. the sound seems very muffled. not clear at all. Like it is going through a layer of towel inside the speaker. Something that blocks the sound and the dynamic of it. I just swapped my old Onkyo HTIB 8ohm center channel in and it was much clearer and louder so I guess something is wrong. I ran Audissey as well and my center is about 9-10 ft. from where I sit. Hope it isn't a lemon because the problem seems to be more known than I orginally thought. I tried putting some rubber below the speaker to make it angled up a little bit rather than lying flat horizontally and it did help a bit but still does not impress me at all. I also favored the center channel by a couple db but the problem is aside from it not being very loud, the sound is not natural and is muffled so it still sounds pretty bad.

Right now I'm using Marantz SR8001 to power 2 LSi15s, 2 LSiFXs, and the LSiC. I will be receiving my Outlaw 750 amp tomorrow or Tuesday so i guess I can try hooking the speakers to that and see how the LSiC will sound but I don't have much hope because it doesn't seem like it is underpower problem.

The rest of the system sounds awesome as it is with the Marantz. I will probably post some pix some time tomorrow or Tue.

Thanks for your help, guys.

McLoki

Just to check the obvious first - you are sure all connections are tight? (on the back of the LSiC - would not be the first time I have heard of wires hooked to the bottome terminals and no one thinking to check the if top terminals are tight against the brass strips.)

The brass strips are there on the back of the center channel aren't they (between the speaker wire terminals)?

Not even one strand of speaker wire is touching positive to negative on the back of the speaker or back of the AVR?

The center is set correctly in the AVR? (if you have a sub - set to small with an 80hz or so crossover)

If you hook it up to the right channel does it sound ok? (yes, I know it will sound a little weird since the right and left will not match, but does it sound better than when it is performing center channel duties?)

It should be tilted twords the ears of the person in the primary listening position. (I use a laser level to point mine)

It could be a power issue - but I doubt it is that simple since the other speakers sound fine. (maybe a weak amp in the center channel of your AVR?) Anyway - report back when you get your amp in tomorrow and let us know how that goes.

Good luck with your search,

Michael

gtu2004

McLoki wrote: »

Just to check the obvious first - you are sure all connections are tight? (on the back of the LSiC - would not be the first time I have heard of wires hooked to the bottome terminals and no one thinking to check the if top terminals are tight against the brass strips.)

The brass strips are there on the back of the center channel aren't they (between the speaker wire terminals)?

Not even one strand of speaker wire is touching positive to negative on the back of the speaker or back of the AVR?

The center is set correctly in the AVR? (if you have a sub - set to small with an 80hz or so crossover)

If you hook it up to the right channel does it sound ok? (yes, I know it will sound a little weird since the right and left will not match, but does it sound better than when it is performing center channel duties?)

It should be tilted twords the ears of the person in the primary listening position. (I use a laser level to point mine)

It could be a power issue - but I doubt it is that simple since the other speakers sound fine. (maybe a weak amp in the center channel of your AVR?) Anyway - report back when you get your amp in tomorrow and let us know how that goes.

Good luck with your search,

Michael

i tried pairing the LSiC with my right LSI15 (meanng swapping the left LSi15) and it sounded terrible lol. The sound was all over the place and the right LSi15 totally killed it. I heard static noise kinda sound coming from the LSiC though. When I did the calibration using Audyssey, I also heard that during the "pluck pluck pluck" sound. When I watch movies, I can't hear that at all maybe because the other sound dwarf it, but when used as the front, it became very clear that there is indeed the static noise.

and yes, the terminals were tight and the strips are there. the strands are neat. Center is set to Small (originally large) & 80Hz crossover. I did noticed a little difference going from Large to Small. A little improvement I would say. Right now the volume isn't much of my concern. The muffled sound and the static is. maybe I got a lemon from Carlos...hope not. will try the amp and i will repot back.

Thanks McLoki

ben62670

Is your LSIc tweeter working? The resistor, or tweeter may be blown?
Ben

Erik Tracy

Interesting....

I'm running LSi7s as my front mains, but still have my dinky CSi3 - sounds ok to me...for now.

I may skip considering the LSiC... if the LSis are considered 'laid back', sounds like the LSiC is 'prone'!

gtu2004

ben62670 wrote: »

Is your LSIc tweeter working? The resistor, or tweeter may be blown?
Ben

Hmmm, how do I test the tweeter or the resistor? I haven't opened the speaker yet.

ben62670

Take a paper towel tube, and put it over the tweeter, and put your ear to the other end. Let us know what you hear, or don't. We can go from there.
Ben

gtu2004

Hey, I did what you told and i do not hear anything from the tweeter in LSiC. I hear constant hissing kinda sound from the other LSis (15 and FX). So I guess the hissing sound indicates they are working?

I'm waiting to receive my RCA cables to connect the new amp to the Marantz. Not expecting it to improve the sound of the LSiC...

McLoki

Sounds like a bad tweeter or blown tweeter circut on the crossover. Give polk CS a call and they can help you identify what you need. Tell them you are a club polk member and they will give you a slight discount.

ben62670

McLoki wrote: »

Sounds like a bad tweeter or blown tweeter circut on the crossover. Give polk CS a call and they can help you identify what you need. Tell them you are a club polk member and they will give you a slight discount.

You got it. Most likely it is a bad resistor.

criverajr

Hey GTU2004, first of all I don't sell lemons, checked the feedback
I f**king bent over backwards for you on this sale, even hand delivered them to your place in QUEENS, and helped you carry them upstairs and you are going to call me out 1 month later. I even asked you about amplification, that Marantz is good but not enough in my opinion to run a full LSi system at any sustain level for along period of time, if you would have notice something wrong right away I would been more receptive about it but not this, not now. I shipped the Monitor Audio Speakers and their was a problem with a tweet, the wire came loose, but before that I offered the buyer to return them to me or pay for the tweeter. I don't sell **** and those speakers were working perfectly when I delivered them to you. I asked you if you wanted to hook them up, you said NO, Like I said I bent over backwards for you on the speakers even on the price. I'm not having this. The price of a tweeter is not that big a deal to me, but calling me out after a month is. I have no reason to discuss this with you right now, maybe when I cool off but not right now.

CRj

ben62670

Driving LSi's with a receiver at high levels is very bad for tweeters. There is a good chance you blew the resistor. Let us know.
Ben

gtu2004

criverajr wrote: »

Hey GTU2004, first of all I don't sell lemons, checked the feedback
I f**king bent over backwards for you on this sale, even hand delivered them to your place in QUEENS, and helped you carry them upstairs and you are going to call me out 1 month later. I even asked you about amplification, that Marantz is good but not enough in my opinion to run a full LSi system at any sustain level for along period of time, if you would have notice something wrong right away I would been more receptive about it but not this, not now. I shipped the Monitor Audio Speakers and their was a problem with a tweet, the wire came loose, but before that I offered the buyer to return them to me or pay for the tweeter. I don't sell **** and those speakers were working perfectly when I delivered them to you. I asked you if you wanted to hook them up, you said NO, Like I said I bent over backwards for you on the speakers even on the price. I'm not having this. The price of a tweeter is not that big a deal to me, but calling me out after a month is. I have no reason to discuss this with you right now, maybe when I cool off but not right now.

CRj

calm down. i did not accuse you or calling you out of anything. if i made you feel that way, i'm sorry. but as you stated in the original post, you were willing to drive 1 hr to meet and I thought that drive from NJ to Queens was more or less within the limit. Only under that condition did I buy the speakers for you 3 weeks ago because I do not have a car. i appreciated your help on carrying the speakers, and so that's why I carried the 2 LSi15s by myself most of times and asked you to help with the LSiC because I would feel bad if I make you work. but those are only minor details.

Regarding the speakers though, I had my doubt and question because you stated that you got the speakers from friends, and so that's why I asked if the problem was known before. I didn't know if you had chance to check the speakers or if you did not. How would I know that unless I ask you?

I've also only used the set for about 2 hours max. About 4 times, each time about half an hour. I haven't watched any one whole movie with them because I was busy. I have been busy for the past 2 -3 weeks working from 9am-11pm, I did not even touch the speakers until like last week. And I only got my FXs on Friday. Before that I was driving my LSi15s and LSiC 3 channels using the Marantz. The receiver got a little warm but did not get hot at all. I do not think it has any problem driving 3 4ohm speakers. But i was not very impressed by the sound, especially the LSiC. The sound was muffled and as I desccribed in my post above, it sounds like there is a layer of towel inside. I initially thought it was a bad receiver settings on me side but knew something was off. I only learned about the tweeter when I came up here seeking for help. And I did not try to crank it loud because I live in an apartment building as you saw, and I did my testings mostly at night. except last weekend when I turned up a volume a little bit to see if it helps the LSiC. And it didn't.

I was happy to get a good deal and you seemed like a really nice guy. I didn't want to make a big deal out of the missing right grille even though I don't know where it was and it could very well be my fault. The cost of the grille wasn't much but it did spoil my excitement a bit. Put yourself in my position for a bit, you can understand my disappointment at the speaker when Polkies on here told me the tweeter might be gone. Now I am just contacting you since you are the one I bought from and I have no one else to turn to. Again I did not mean to call you out since your feedbacks speak for you and you apparently are a nice guy who is willing to work on the difference as stated in your post. But what would you suggest me to have done other than contacting you?

gtu2004

criverajr wrote: »

Hey GTU2004, first of all I don't sell lemons, checked the feedback
I f**king bent over backwards for you on this sale, even hand delivered them to your place in QUEENS, and helped you carry them upstairs and you are going to call me out 1 month later. I even asked you about amplification, that Marantz is good but not enough in my opinion to run a full LSi system at any sustain level for along period of time, if you would have notice something wrong right away I would been more receptive about it but not this, not now. I shipped the Monitor Audio Speakers and their was a problem with a tweet, the wire came loose, but before that I offered the buyer to return them to me or pay for the tweeter. I don't sell **** and those speakers were working perfectly when I delivered them to you. I asked you if you wanted to hook them up, you said NO, Like I said I bent over backwards for you on the speakers even on the price. I'm not having this. The price of a tweeter is not that big a deal to me, but calling me out after a month is. I have no reason to discuss this with you right now, maybe when I cool off but not right now.

CRj

by the way, i did not say no to hooking up the speakers. simply i did not have a receiver at that point and I made that clear before I even agreed to buy. I received my Marantz like a week after I had got the speakers, but this is not your fault. just wanted to make it clear because you seemed to have misunderstood.

gtu2004

Guys, is this the same vifa tweeter used in the LSiC?
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=264-555&ctab=2#Tabs

I'kk give Polk a call to see how much they really sell these for. Heard it was 100 or 60 bucks. if it is 60 bucks, i'll just spend $10 and rest peacefully til it comes but if it is $100, I might order from Partsexpress.

ben62670

You have to use the Polk tweeter. They were designed to be used in the LSI series. The one you linked to will not work.
Ben

doug lang

In responce to low volume dialogue with the lsiC i have to agree. So i tried to improve mine with many of the suggestions listed. First i thought with many different volumes with dvds or 5.1 tv that was normal. What i found was the height of the center tilted up on a stand at 22 inches was low at times. I raised the height to 32 inches and what a difference. And when you look at it 32 is about ear level when sitting on the couch accross from it. My problem now is how to raise the center. Sanus does not make a stand that high. I am thinking about a wall mount, and don't know if that can be done with the lsiC. Has anyone used this installation with their lsiC.

gtu2004

hmm, it seems that my problem wasn't w/ the tweeter. I just swapped the LSi7's tweeter to LSiC and the problem still persisted. I had no response from the tweeter so I'm guessing the issue is between the tweeter and the binding post. Anyone have any suggestion what I should look at?

Face

Pull the crossover and look for a burnt resistor or leaky cap.

McLoki

You pull the crossover by taking out the cup the binding posts are connected to on the back of the speaker. The crossover is a circuit board connected to the back of the speaker terminal cup.

Once removed, take some pictures of the crossover and post them here, we should be able to help.

Michael

gtu2004

McLoki wrote: »

You pull the crossover by taking out the cup the binding posts are connected to on the back of the speaker. The crossover is a circuit board connected to the back of the speaker terminal cup.

Once removed, take some pictures of the crossover and post them here, we should be able to help.

Michael

you do know my speaker knowledge level:D Yep, I will try that later tonight once I get off work. Been reading some crossover upgrade threads on here and I now have some idea what I should expect to see. But does Polk offer replacement resistor or should I just get something better than the stock one while I'm at it?

McLoki

If it is a resistor, a much higher quality part will run you about $3.50.

if you do a forum search for lsic crossover, you will see some pics of what you will see when you remove the crossover. If you want you could upgrade some of the caps while you are in there for not alot of $. (using dayton caps to replace all the caps in the signal path.)

Michael