How important is equal wire length?

McLoki
McLoki Posts: 5,231
edited August 2004 in Basic Hookup/Wiring Questions
I am in the process of upgrading my home theater and have a question. Should all wire lengths be the same, or be made as short as possible to reach the speaker? (within reason of course) I am running a 5 channel system and lengths are from my reciever to the speaker (as the cable runs)

Center Channel about 23 feet of cable
Right Channel about 18 feet of cable
Left Channel about 16 feet of cable
Left rear channel about 30 feet of cable
Right rear channel about 15 feet of cable

Based on that info, how long should I make my cables?

(I would still set the speaker distances correctly in the AVR based on distance to listener not cable distance)

Thanks for your input,

Michael Hand.
Mains.............Polk LSi15 (Cherry)
Center............Polk LSiC (Crossover upgraded)
Surrounds.......Polk LSi7 (Gloss Black - wood sides removed and crossovers upgraded)
Subwoofers.....SVS 25-31 CS+ and PC+ (both 20hz tune)
Pre\Pro...........NAD T163 (Modded with LM4562 opamps)
Amplifier.........Cinepro 3k6 (6-channel, 500wpc@4ohms)
Post edited by McLoki on
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  • Frank Z
    Frank Z Posts: 5,860
    edited August 2004
    First things first...Welcome to the forum!!

    Your wires do not need to be equal. Keep all of the wires as short as possible and you'll be fine.

    Wire size is going to have a greater impact than equal length cables. I think you'll find that most folks are going to recommend 14ga for the surrounds and 12ga for the mains and center speaker. They are doing the lions share of sound reproduction in a multichannel system and will benefit from a slightly larger wire.

    You're correct in setting the speaker distance via the receiver. Some people get a bit confused by this parameter and fail to set their suystem up properly as a result.

    If you don't already have one, the best investment you can make for your HT is an SPL meter from Radio Shack. Calibrating a system by ear isn't very accurate.
    9/11 - WE WILL NEVER FORGET!! (<---<<click)
    2005-06 Club Polk Football Pool Champion!! :D
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  • John K.
    John K. Posts: 822
    edited August 2004
    Michael, as Frank indicated, keeping wires equal in length is meaningless at the distances involved in the home. Audio signals travel along the wire at nearly the speed of light and the difference in length would have to be miles before an audible difference in timing between speakers would occur. At the distances you mention, no audible difference in loudness between the speakers(which could easily be balanced anyway)would take place either. Allow a little extra length for the sake of flexibility in placement; a wire a little too long does no significant harm, while one that's too short has a disastrous effect on sound quality. For your runs 16ga would be adequate, but using 14ga or 12ga is okay if you don't mind the added expense and the somewhat more difficult to handle thicker wire.
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  • Willow
    Willow Posts: 11,040
    edited August 2004
    Now if peeps say 12 AWG is god for fronts the kimbers I bought yesterday are only 14awg , and how can you have a run that is too short it has to reach the receiver and speaker...therefore as long as it reaches both it can't be too short
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  • Oldwriter
    Oldwriter Posts: 248
    edited August 2004
    John K. is correct (as usual) about wire lengths. For longer runs, I suggest going to Home Depot and getting their bulk "extension cord" wire - usually clad in orange or yellow. It's flexible and rather easy to snake thru walls, etc.
    Personally, I use 10-AWG Blue Jeans Cables wire for my mains - and have run 14-AWG "extension cord" through walls to my surrounds.
    Please note - when I say "extension cord," I don't mean those wimpy liddle brown or white things with plugs - I'm talking round, colorful wire on the big bulk spools! (grin)
    Good luck - you'll be fine. Larry R.
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  • Oldwriter
    Oldwriter Posts: 248
    edited August 2004
    Willow - I think friend John K. had tongue firmly in cheek when he wrote about "too short" having disastrous effect on sound quality. Sound seldom jumps inches or feet from a wire-end to a speaker terminal! (grin) LR
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  • dcarlson
    dcarlson Posts: 1,740
    edited August 2004
    Originally posted by Willow
    Now if peeps say 12 AWG is god for fronts the kimbers I bought yesterday are only 14awg
    You're over thinking. ;) 14awg is fine. There are no set rules, only guidelines.

    I used the 4vs for a long time and it's 13awg. I added a set of 8pr to the subs in my RT1000i's and noticed a slight increase in bass but nothing drastic.
    SDA-2a, Anthem Pre-2L, Anthem Amp 1, MF A324 DAC, Rotel RCD1070

    Senn HD650 Cardas, Mapletree Audio Ear+ HD2, Kimber KS1030, Bel Canto DAC2, M-Audio Transit, Laptop.
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  • Willow
    Willow Posts: 11,040
    edited August 2004
    I can't wait to see(hear) the difference I hooked them up last night but only listened to an episode of Supranos on DVD I found the center to be more clear and clean but the mains nothing yet
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  • tryrrthg
    tryrrthg Posts: 1,896
    edited August 2004
    I have Kimber 4PR and it blew the snot out of the 12ga Home Depot extention cord in my rig. I'm not a "wire makes a BIG difference" kind of guy but the difference was obvious in this instance. Another forum member (gmorris) was there and heard it too, it was an immediate difference when switching from Kimber to HD wire. The HD wire was like throwing a blanket over my speakers.

    The other thing that the Kimber has going for it is that it has a dialectic to shield the cable, keeps the signal clean.
    Sony KDL-40V2500 HDTV, Rotel RSX-1067 Receiver, Sony BDP-S550 Blu-ray, Slim Devices Squeezebox, Polk RTi6, CSi3 & R15, DIY sub with Atlas 15
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  • Willow
    Willow Posts: 11,040
    edited August 2004
    As I mentioned I noticed a better sound out of the center but not yet out of the mains I too Have gone from HD spool 12awg cable to the kimbers...did you find a "break in preiod" I am was a " A cable is a cable" thinker/ beleiver as well
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  • dcarlson
    dcarlson Posts: 1,740
    edited August 2004
    If the cables are used, there probably won't be a burn in. As for your mains, because most of the dialog in movies come from the center you'll probably notice most of the difference there.

    If you listen to music, that's when you'll notice a difference for your mains.
    SDA-2a, Anthem Pre-2L, Anthem Amp 1, MF A324 DAC, Rotel RCD1070

    Senn HD650 Cardas, Mapletree Audio Ear+ HD2, Kimber KS1030, Bel Canto DAC2, M-Audio Transit, Laptop.
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  • Willow
    Willow Posts: 11,040
    edited August 2004
    true !! tonight my wife is going shopping so I will play around with it !! can't wait...I'm excited to see if cables really make a difference..so far yes on my center....
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,647
    edited August 2004
    The thing about cables is that they do make a difference, but a lot of it depends on the gear they connect. One can't expect wires to make a silk purse out of a cow's ear.

    Larry.....I enjoyed your tongue in cheek, "John K. is correct (as usual)" comment. WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • PolkThug
    PolkThug Posts: 7,532
    edited August 2004
    Originally posted by tryrrthg
    The other thing that the Kimber has going for it is that it has a dialectic to shield the cable, keeps the signal clean.

    The HD 12awg speaker wire also has dielectric around the wire.

    2 cents
    Never Forget
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  • tryrrthg
    tryrrthg Posts: 1,896
    edited August 2004
    Originally posted by PolkThug
    The HD 12awg speaker wire also has dielectric around the wire.

    2 cents
    Cool, I did not know that. If I ever need some long runs I'll definitely be checking out the HD wire again.
    Sony KDL-40V2500 HDTV, Rotel RSX-1067 Receiver, Sony BDP-S550 Blu-ray, Slim Devices Squeezebox, Polk RTi6, CSi3 & R15, DIY sub with Atlas 15
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  • Willow
    Willow Posts: 11,040
    edited August 2004
    that's where I am headed this weekend for new runs for my rears are we talking HD spool house brand or carol brand
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  • tryrrthg
    tryrrthg Posts: 1,896
    edited August 2004
    Originally posted by Willow
    that's where I am headed this weekend for new runs for my rears are we talking HD spool house brand or carol brand
    It is HD extension cord. It's not actually HD speaker wire. It is made to be used as heavy duty extension cord but people use it as speaker wire because "wire is wire", right? ;)

    The stuff comes in yellow or orange...
    Sony KDL-40V2500 HDTV, Rotel RSX-1067 Receiver, Sony BDP-S550 Blu-ray, Slim Devices Squeezebox, Polk RTi6, CSi3 & R15, DIY sub with Atlas 15
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  • Willow
    Willow Posts: 11,040
    edited August 2004
    WTH ??

    so I go in and ask for 2 prong extension cord ???
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  • tryrrthg
    tryrrthg Posts: 1,896
    edited August 2004
    Originally posted by Willow
    WTH ??

    so I go in and ask for 2 prong extension cord ???
    nope, it's 12-3 extension cord wire that is sold by the foot. it has three 12ga wires in it. you use two of the wires and ignore the third. It should be next to all the other wire (speaker wire included). the outer jacket of the extension cord wire is orange or yellow.
    Sony KDL-40V2500 HDTV, Rotel RSX-1067 Receiver, Sony BDP-S550 Blu-ray, Slim Devices Squeezebox, Polk RTi6, CSi3 & R15, DIY sub with Atlas 15
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  • Willow
    Willow Posts: 11,040
    edited August 2004
    can I remove the orange and yellow and just use 2 cords ??? I need to run it under the carpet along the wall can't be thick at all or it will look dumb and I will get a negative on the WAF
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  • Oldwriter
    Oldwriter Posts: 248
    edited August 2004
    Nope - Willow - it's nice and round - too big to go under carpet. And no, you can't (shouldn't) strip off the insulation - you'll be left with individual wires, which will prove, uh, "uncomfortable."
    For under-carpet runs - try using the labeled "speaker wire" that HD and even better Lowe's sells - it's got clear jacket, and is flat like a "regular" extension cord. LR
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  • Willow
    Willow Posts: 11,040
    edited August 2004
    thats what I have now. cept it's 18awg and non-oxy free, so I will get oxy-free 16 awg
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  • Oldwriter
    Oldwriter Posts: 248
    edited August 2004
    Willow - you can go **** trying to find out if wire is "oxy-free." Most isn't - and many sites post that it's just not that important. I'm not gonna argue that - period! (grin)
    But I'd go with 14-gauge if you've got runs of over 15 feet. Less, well, 16-gauge might be OK - I like nothing smaller than 14.
    Good luck running under-carpet! Tough job! Larry R.
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  • read-alot
    read-alot Posts: 812
    edited August 2004
    This read should help.

    http://www.audioholics.com/techtips/audioprinciples/interconnects/Cable-Breakin.html
    polkaudio SRS (rdo194 x 8)
    Dodd ELP (separate power supply)
    JC 1 blocks ( strapped )
    Rega Apollo
    MIT (speaker cables) Outlaw (ICs)

    polkaudio SDA2(rdo194x4) (front) polkaudio CRS (rdo194x4)(rear) polkaudio 400i (center)
    B&K 505
    Samsung LCD
    VIP 622
    HSU STF-2
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  • dcarlson
    dcarlson Posts: 1,740
    edited August 2004
    Originally posted by read-alot
    This read should help.

    http://www.audioholics.com/techtips/audioprinciples/interconnects/Cable-Breakin.html
    I'd say that read doesn't help.
    SDA-2a, Anthem Pre-2L, Anthem Amp 1, MF A324 DAC, Rotel RCD1070

    Senn HD650 Cardas, Mapletree Audio Ear+ HD2, Kimber KS1030, Bel Canto DAC2, M-Audio Transit, Laptop.
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  • Willow
    Willow Posts: 11,040
    edited August 2004
    read it before...thanks though...
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,647
    edited August 2004
    Originally posted by read-alot
    This read should help.

    http://www.audioholics.com/techtips/audioprinciples/interconnects/Cable-Breakin.html

    What a crock of ****!
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • TheReaper
    TheReaper Posts: 636
    edited August 2004
    Originally posted by McLoki
    Left rear channel about 30 feet of cable
    Right rear channel about 15 feet of cable
    An inch or foot or two doesn't make much difference, but I would even up the lengths of your left and right rear channels.

    The reason for having equal lengths of wire for corresponding speaker pairs (eg. match left and right main lengths, match left and right rear lengths), is to match the resistance of the wires.

    P.S. PolkThug, I like your 2 cents ;)
    Win7 Media Center -> Onkyo TXSR702 -> Polk Rti70
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  • read-alot
    read-alot Posts: 812
    edited August 2004
    http://www.nytimes.com/library/tech/99/12/circuits/articles/23down.html

    Maybe this is a better read since it quotes Paul from Polk.
    polkaudio SRS (rdo194 x 8)
    Dodd ELP (separate power supply)
    JC 1 blocks ( strapped )
    Rega Apollo
    MIT (speaker cables) Outlaw (ICs)

    polkaudio SDA2(rdo194x4) (front) polkaudio CRS (rdo194x4)(rear) polkaudio 400i (center)
    B&K 505
    Samsung LCD
    VIP 622
    HSU STF-2
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,647
    edited August 2004
    That is a better read and I have read it before. Make note that the percent ratio of the cable cost to the systems mentioned is the suggested 10% of total cost.

    "We are talking subtle differences, but that is what the high end is all about,"

    No truer words have been spoken about audio.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • dorokusai
    dorokusai Posts: 25,577
    edited August 2004
    ReadAlot - Are you on a personal crusade? Neither side is right regardless of how many "scientific" articles are written.

    If it's audio jewelry, than millions must be wrong, not just a couple of us on the forum. And really...who gives a crap. It's what the individual experiences, not the masses.

    If you put no effort to make your own semi-rigid experiment and assessment, than how can you say anything but cut and paste words?
    CTC BBQ Amplifier, Sonic Frontiers Line3 Pre-Amplifier and Wadia 581 SACD player. Speakers? Always changing but for now, Mission Argonauts I picked up for $50 bucks, mint.
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