My Time with the SDA CRS+

pjdami · July 2004

This morning I finally got the recently acquired SDA CRS+ setup in the workout room of the house.

My first thoughts after listening to the entire No Doubt "The Singles 1992 - 2003" cd was "Polk why are you NOT making these speakers any more?" The CRS+ that I now own have the upgraded tweeters in them and they sound amazing. I then proceeded to listen to DSOTM and some Diana Krall. Sounded great on this music as well.

Believe me, I was skeptical. I had heard stories that the SDAs were bright sounding and had weak bass...WRONG...

These babies rock. Amazing dynamic range and the wide soundstage that others mention in full effect. Owning LSi, Spendors, JBL, Cerwin Vega, Infinity, and now even Dynaudio I have a pretty good feel about what sounds good to me or not. I do not like all esoteric gear however. Just because it has the fancy name does not guarantee sucess with me. Acoustic Zen and Plinius are two brands I recently sold because I just couldn't find myself to like that gear no matter how hard I tried. I also do not claim to be an audiophile but just an enthusiast. What makes one an audiophile anyways?

I have not heard the older tweeters, but these new tweeters are very smooth sounding. The midrange is slightly relaxed sounding but I find the upper midrange to be clearer than the LSi to listen to. More transparency in the music and the background instruments. Bass is solid and authoritative as I have the speakers about a foot or so from the back wall.

I could put some insane volume into these speakers and they never flinched once. Man I wish I had a pair of these back when I was in college 12 years ago. Compared to my Spendors on my Rogue tube amp and even the Dynaudios on Krell, the CRS+ holds its own very well and actually excel in some areas although all the setups sound really good. Tube preamp with the B&K amp will be the next thing to try out for me. The CRS+ with the new tweets are truly an enjoyable audio experience and keepers for sure.

Sorry about not much of a review here. For me it is quite simple... I either like it or I don't and I like 'em.... a lot.

Equipment used:
Musical Fidelity Pre Cd 24
B&K Ref 4420 amp
Kimber Heroes IC
DH Labs Silversonic Q10 speaker wire
DH Labs DIY powercords

xsmi · July 2004

That wa good enough and congrats on a hell of a nice system.

F1nut · July 2004

Paul,

Nice set up and congrats on finally getting the SDA experience.

dorokusai · July 2004

I think the CRS+/CRS are outstanding. The only speaker I have heard to date, that sound 4x as large as they are physically. SDA has something to do with this effect, but it is what it is to me.

The SDA is absolutely the best speaker made by Polk, period.

Weak bass? Ridiculous statement. I would love for that individual to expound upon the particulars of that experience.

Bright? Possible, given the tweeter, and IC's...the SL2000 sucks IMO. <Comic Book Guy> Worst....tweeter....ever.

What's odd is that it works so much better in non-SDA models to me. The SL3000 is at least worthy of keeping, but the replacement tweeter for both series, simply rules all.

Have fun man, enjoy!

RuSsMaN · July 2004

Awesome!

My pants are going crazy! Hell, my pants just FLEW off.

Cheers,
Rooster

F1nut · July 2004

Perish the thought :eek:

SDA SRS 1.2 · August 2004

Thanks for a great review!

organ · August 2004

Thanks for sharing your experience with us, Paul. You have a great looking system there. Is that the Dynadio beside your SDA?

Maurice

pjdami · August 2004

Thanks for all the comments guys. Its easy to write something nice about the CRS+ because they do grab one's attention immediately.

Hi Organ. No those are Spendor S8 next to the CRS+. Spendor is famous for their magical midrange and I can't argue with that statement at all. They have a startling natural midrange especially with women's vocals.

I just emailed Rogue to find out about the common ground amp thing on that particular amp as I'm itching to try some tubes somewhere with the CRS+. I was going to check for continuity with a multimeter across the negative speaker binding posts as well but figured an email was in order .. just in case.

Definitely need some tubes in the setup for the CRS+ for me be it the Rogue or a future tube pre. I'm hoping some of the magic on the midrange can be found with some tubes in the mix. Not that it is bad right now.. just that I think it could get better.

organ · August 2004

Those are great looking speakers. If I find a Spendor dealer, I will definitely demo them with some female vocals. So do you prefer the Spendors over the LSi9?

Hopefully the Rogue is a common ground amp. Madmax said SDA and tubes is crazy. Have you thought about buildig a "Foreplay" kit?

Maurice

tryrrthg · August 2004

Nice write up Paul! NICE gear!

Still hanging onto the Dyn's, huh? How do they sound with the Krell? I think you said you have the KAV400i, correct? I'd love to hear some krell on the dyn's!

I just switched to an Arcam amp on mine and love the combo! I'd also love to hear some vintage Polks. Just wish I could get as much NICE gear as you!

amulford · August 2004

It's nice to hear about another SDA convert. I want to get a pair of CRS+'s for my kitchen. I cook alot and I love my tunes while I'm working. The Kitchen would be ROCKIN!!!;)

pjdami · August 2004

Got an email from Rogue yesterday and they answered my question. Yes, the Rogue tube amp is a common ground amp and I confirmed this as well with a continuity check across the negative speaker binding posts. Rogue has always answered any and all of my questions within 24 hrs. Nice customer service (like Polk:) )

The CRS+ are 5 ohm speakers (according to the manual that I have) and thus Rogue recommended that I switch the internal wiring on the amp to the positive post 4 ohm speaker leads (disconnect the 8 ohm leads). Seems like a pain in the neck to do this all the time but they said I could run the 4 ohm configuration with 8 ohm speakers as well. While I was in there, I put in some of the Ei Yugo gold pin 12AX7s in there and switched the amp from triode operation (30 watts / channel) to ultralinear (60 watts/ channel). Sat back in the chair and fired up the MF cd pre 24 and the tube amp. After listening for a while, I decided to get the Ei Yugos out because they have less than an hour on them and I didn't feel like burning them in at this time.

Back in go the Sovtek 12AX7LPS, an affordable tube that I enjoy a LOT. Some differences between the SS B&K amp and the tube amp. Bass on the tube amp doesn't dig as low. It sounds more tuneful than authoritative. Stil tight though just not as loud. Midrange... wow the midrange is so much there now.. not recessed. Very full sounding and rich. Any gains in midrange though seem to come at the sacrifice of some loss of the SDA effect though and the highs are a little more rolled off. I like the decay of the piano notes that one gets on the tube sound and how the bass strings also have this different decay (sound lingers around more). From top to bottom a very awesome sounding speaker and can you say WARM sounding. Just amazing. Also seems to have like some kind of dynamic compression to the overall sound. More "buttery smooth" from top to bottom. I do wish I had some of the dynamics back though and retain this midrange.

I'm wondering if the 60 watts / channel may not be enough? Or if a tube line stage pre with the SS amp will give me the lush midrange with the dynamics that I am looking for here? Any advice from SDA owners who have tried both ways would be appreciated.

Organ, I sold the LSi 9 remember? I still have a full LSi HT though and I plan on keeping that rig believe me. I still enjoy the LSi but I am playing around with options for two channel. The Spendor speaker has a beautiful and clear midrange (best midrange in the house). Hard to describe except it sounds like the singer is there in the room with you singing to you with no amplification or mic. Unbelievable... I know. You just have to hear it. I also own some very rare Spendor BC1 ( a speaker that was manufactured for 25 years) and that is the best midrange in the house. Spooky that speaker is.

The Dynaudio 1.3MKII bookshelves are very fussy speakers. The hardest speaker I have ever had to try to sound good. Sounded very dry and sterile with the Plinius amp. Much better with the Krell although they are still ruthlessly revealing and on the "cooler" side of neutral sounding. I would like to try the Contour 1.3 SEs one day but not anytime soon. The SEs are supposed to have a more refined treble. They are an awesome speaker no doubt, but I feel that I tend to like a warmer and richer sound. Just a personal preference here though and the 1.3MKIIs do a lot of things very well from top to bottom. Great balance, but I'm not sure if they really grab my attention in one specific area like some of the other speakers do.

The BC1s on the Krell sound amazing as the Krell really controls what would otherwise be "loose" bass with this classic. The Krell really mates well with the warmer sounding Spendor.

Okay.. enough for now.. so tube pre and SS amp with the CRS+s??? Thoughts?

I've been researching a few. AR LS7, the Anthem that Doro has, CJ PV10, or whatever Russ can find for me in the next couple of months;)

xsmi · August 2004

I seem to remember back in the early to mid 90's alot of reviewers liked the LS9 AR and MC DNA-.5. I have not heard this setup. I have heard the LS-3AR (SS) and DNA-1 with Theil CS 3.6 and it was magic. You might be able to find those pieces on the 'GON farely reasonable.

tryrrthg · August 2004

Originally posted by xsmi
I seem to remember back in the early to mid 90's alot of reviewers liked the LS9 AR and MC DNA-.5. I have not heard this setup. I have heard the LS-3AR (SS) and DNA-1 with Theil CS 3.6 and it was magic. You might be able to find those pieces on the 'GON farely reasonable.

I had the Audio Research LS3 and the McCormack DNA 0.5 and it didn't work for me. The gain was just too high on the LS3. I couldn't get the gain to 9 o'clock before it was too loud. It did sound very good though. I still have the McCormack amp and the matching TLC-1 pre-amp and they do sound very good, I think they have more of a tube sound.

I have read MANY people running the McCormack amps with tube pre with fantastic results. But I don't have the funds or the time to try it out. I am probably going to part with the McCormack gear and keep my Arcam integrated for now. It pains me to part with the McCormack gear, it's just so damn good!

The Dynaudio 1.3MKII bookshelves are very fussy speakers. The hardest speaker I have ever had to try to sound good. Sounded very dry and sterile with the Plinius amp. Much better with the Krell although they are still ruthlessly revealing and on the "cooler" side of neutral sounding. I would like to try the Contour 1.3 SEs one day but not anytime soon. The SEs are supposed to have a more refined treble. They are an awesome speaker no doubt, but I feel that I tend to like a warmer and richer sound. Just a personal preference here though and the 1.3MKIIs do a lot of things very well from top to bottom. Great balance, but I'm not sure if they really grab my attention in one specific area like some of the other speakers do.

All true, the dyn's are very fussy and VERY revealing. I guess I just like the cooler more neutral sounding speakers. But I think my dyn's do all music equally well which is why I like them so much.

A friend of mine owns the 1.3SE and it's definitely a better speaker, much more refined high's. It also hits a little lower in the bass if can believe that, since the 1.3mkII has fantastic bass for it's size. The 1.3SE would be worth a try, DON'T WAIT Paul!

pjdami · August 2004

tryrrthg,

Believe me, I haven't given up on the Danes yet. I'm still burning in a new amp, ICs, speaker wire, and new tubes in my cdp. Been about a couple of weeks.. perhaps things will smooth out some here in the next couple of weeks. I don't think I'm at 100 hrs of play time yet.

Paul

polkatese · August 2004

Originally posted by pjdami

The BC1s on the Krell sound amazing as the Krell really controls what would otherwise be "loose" bass with this classic. The Krell really mates well with the warmer sounding Spendor.

dibs on the Krell! when the time comes....

Those are awesome gears, Paul! I am jealous! Congrats!

tryrrthg · August 2004

Originally posted by pjdami
tryrrthg,

Believe me, I haven't given up on the Danes yet. I'm still burning in a new amp, ICs, speaker wire, and new tubes in my cdp. Been about a couple of weeks.. perhaps things will smooth out some here in the next couple of weeks. I don't think I'm at 100 hrs of play time yet.

Paul

yea, from what I've read Danes take a long time to break in. I bought mine used, they were about 5 months old, so I didn't have to wait!

pjdami · August 2004

yea, from what I've read Danes take a long time to break in. I bought mine used, they were about 5 months old, so I didn't have to wait!

Tryrrthg,

My Danes are used as well courtesy of Audiogon. Everything you see up there was dealer demo or Audiogon dealer demos. The CRS+ were had courtesy of a fellow Club Polk member.

So what looks like a mega buck system is actually a system I put together where I paid less than 1/2 the retail on all these items (except for wire but I do have some DIY projects in there).

As you know, if one is patient and prudent enough to check out Audiogon everyday, some definite deals can be found. I also frequent my local hi-fi shops once / month for their "flea market" on trade-ins customers have brought in when they upgraded. Someone bought some Contour 1.8mkIIs yesterday on Audiogon for $1,200. Didn't even last a few hours at that price.

mantis · August 2004

I would sell my entire system for a Pair of 1.8's.If you haven't hear them go,I will go on record as saying they are one of the very best sounding speakers under 5 grand.They are so good it's sick.

O one day..............

such passion I have for them.

mantis · August 2004

Bad thing is you have to have that level of gear to drive them.they will tell you all about any and all flaws in your system.

B&K won't cut it.
Rotel is out of the question

I'm feeling a Mark Levinston Intergraded here.No.383 will do just find.

tryrrthg · August 2004

Originally posted by mantis
I would sell my entire system for a Pair of 1.8's.If you haven't hear them go,I will go on record as saying they are one of the very best sounding speakers under 5 grand.They are so good it's sick.

O one day..............

such passion I have for them.

I thought the 1.3SE was a better speaker than the 1.8, not that the 1.8 is bad, it was fantastic. I just like the 1.3SE better...

pjdami · December 2004

Melos SHA1.

I have had this great little preamp for a couple of months now. Actually, in my quest for a Melos, I wound up with two of them. This one has a black faceplate and has some mods to it on the inside including Dynamat. I'm using Mullard tubes in this one.

The other Melos is a silver faceplate and looks stock. The power cord is permanently attached. I'll be looking to get rid of one of these guys in the flea market (I'm definitely keeping one of them).

pjdami · December 2004

Hood popped open on the modded one (kind of lousy dynamatting if you ask me but its on the inside). Interestingly, the person who owned this and modded this put Dynamat on the transformer. I thought that was odd.

pjdami · December 2004

Here's the silver unmodded one. I order Brimar tubes for this one. Note the difference of the parts on the inside.

pjdami · December 2004

And here's what the Melos pres will be competing against:

Cary Audio SLP-88. 6SN7 triode tubes in this one. This one is fresh and I haven't even popped the hood on it yet. It has a remote and is VERY sweet sounding on the SDA CRS+.

F1nut · December 2004

That is a crappy Dynamat job, but adding it to the transformer is a good idea.

RuSsMaN · December 2004

Paul, I've ended with some 1986 Phillips JAN NOS 6922's as my 'choice' tube in the Melos, with Amperex Bugle Boys running a close second.

If you want, I'll send you a matched pair of the JAN tubes to try out.

What was the quote on the Melos' line stage capabilties? Something to the order of 'I doubt you could do substantially better at ANY price'. And to think, they were originally marketed as Headphone amps.

Cheers,
Russ

pjdami · December 2004

Hi Russ.

I was going to make an order today for a pair of spare 6SN7s for the Cary and I found these based on your recommendation:

http://store.tubedepot.com/nos-6922-jan.html

Is that the same tube you are talking about? Anything unique about the 1986 year? Thanks for the offer; I might just try those out but would want some for me eventually:)

Been listening to Alison Krauss' new album this morning. What a great effin album. Take away the "He-Hawing" tracks when the guys are singing though. The 10 tracks or so where Alison sings are absolutely great. What a voice. She sounds superb on the Melos / B&K combo on the CRS+.

I've found through my experimentation that the tube pre with the solid state amp is the way to go with the CRS+. Midrange is superb. Bass is authoritative and highs sparkle. It just sounds right. If a system can portray the female voice and instruments with this kind of presentation then it has won me over.

Correct about the Melos. Its a steal of a bargain at $300 on the used market. And yes the Cary is NOT substantially better at 2 1/2 times the price used; but it does have the remote though.

Honestly, I bought the Cary for the Spendors / Rogue tube amp in the office rig. I think I may be selling the MF Cd Pre 24 soon too. Just trying to find the right synergies. As luck would have it though, the tube pres were the last thing I tried and seems to be the one thing I like the best.

pjdami · December 2004

P.S. Russ,

If you do want to do a swap trial run on the 6922s I would be happy to send the Mullards to you for your evaluation (if you haven't tried those out yet). I think they are the Mullard gold pin ones.

Paul

pjdami · January 2005

Just an update of some changes here in the past couple of weeks. I popped open the Cary preamp and lo and behold it still had the stock Chinese tubes in there. Well I was floored how good these tubes sounded so as any tube person would do I order some new ones:D

I went with the Electroharmonix 6SN7s. I've read that the Sylvania "chrome top" 6SN7s are good too but I went with the more affordable EHs for now. Electroharmonix is really impressing me a "modern day" tube company as I have some 12AX7s in my Jolida cd player and some EH power tubes in my Rogue tube amp.

I also recently acquired some of that insane deal PS Audio Prelude speaker cable from Audio Advisor. $60 shipped to my door for a six foot pair with interchangeable banana plugs or spades. Thicker than a garden hose and they sound great too. I also got some Kimber Silver Streaks for Christmas.

All I can say is that this rig is currently in the workout / ironing room and I'm spending a lot more time in there lately. Just digging it. The EH 6SN7s are awesome on the Cary.

The system has an insane amount of resolution, imaging, and soundstage that extends well beyond the speaker plane to the left and right.

I plan on getting that PS Audio power conditioner that F1nut has in the future. For now the el cheapo AR powerstrip / surge protecter is doing the job.

The Melos will be paired with my Monitor 10As in another rig.

My Time with the SDA CRS+

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