Help with Understanding How Dolby Surround & DTS Neural:X "Upmixers" Work on New Denon X2800...
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Seriously? Highlight, right click, search! That's how we work around here.
It stands for Let Me Google That For You.
Ok, lesson over. From here out, you are expected to search on your own.
Thanks!
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Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
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Nope, I run a 3.1 system and not once have I been disappointed that I have no back channels.I seem to be one of the only human beings still running a five-channel surround setup without 11-plus overhead speakers for Atmos. -
Nope, I run a 3.1 system and not once have I been disappointed that I have no back channels.I seem to be one of the only human beings still running a five-channel surround setup without 11-plus overhead speakers for Atmos.
I was being quasi-sarcastic with that comment...
My point was that it just seems like everyone buys these new AVRs because they have the overhead setups; in our case, we're still running 5.1, and if it wasn't for our old Onkyo giving us some trouble with the HDMI out (so I couldn't really see the setup menus anymore to check on settings from time to time, as the screen was riddled with distortion, eventually locking up the whole AVR), I'd still be using it. -
5.1 here and that'll be all it ever is.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
John_Lohmann wrote: »I was being quasi-sarcastic with that comment...
My point was that it just seems like everyone buys these new AVRs because they have the overhead setups; in our case, we're still running 5.1, and if it wasn't for our old Onkyo giving us some trouble with the HDMI out (so I couldn't really see the setup menus anymore to check on settings from time to time, as the screen was riddled with distortion, eventually locking up the whole AVR), I'd still be using it.
I think for most, the urge to upgrade receivers is because of the ever changing HDMI specs. 1st it was the need for HDMI audio to get lossless DTSHD/TrueHD, then we need 4K with HDCP 2.2, then 2.3 and 8K video...
The Atmos stuff is a bonus. I'd still be rocking a 11 year old Integra DTR 50.5 in my basement theater if I didn't go and get the urge to upgrade my projector to a 4K model last winter.
That Integra had an early pseudo height channel setup called Audyssey DSX. With that feature available, I switched from my old 7.1 setup to a 5.2.1 setup the last time I moved. I never really thought the 2 rear channels added much to movies, but having the front height does add something nice, especially if you are watching on a larger screen.
That said, I really couldn't hear much improvement with the actual Atmos capable receiver that I have now (ZA5000ES), but of course, I don't use all 11 channels. Maybe with 4 in-ceiling speakers, it would be easier to appreciate the difference that Atmos brings? Meh. I can also enjoy movies just fine on my 3.1 setup I have in the living room.
For rig details, see my profile. Nothing here anymore... -
John_Lohmann wrote: »I was being quasi-sarcastic with that comment...
My point was that it just seems like everyone buys these new AVRs because they have the overhead setups; in our case, we're still running 5.1, and if it wasn't for our old Onkyo giving us some trouble with the HDMI out (so I couldn't really see the setup menus anymore to check on settings from time to time, as the screen was riddled with distortion, eventually locking up the whole AVR), I'd still be using it.
I think for most, the urge to upgrade receivers is because of the ever changing HDMI specs. 1st it was the need for HDMI audio to get lossless DTSHD/TrueHD, then we need 4K with HDCP 2.2, then 2.3 and 8K video...
The Atmos stuff is a bonus. I'd still be rocking a 11 year old Integra DTR 50.5 in my basement theater if I didn't go and get the urge to upgrade my projector to a 4K model last winter.
That Integra had an early pseudo height channel setup called Audyssey DSX. With that feature available, I switched from my old 7.1 setup to a 5.2.1 setup the last time I moved. I never really thought the 2 rear channels added much to movies, but having the front height does add something nice, especially if you are watching on a larger screen.
That said, I really couldn't hear much improvement with the actual Atmos capable receiver that I have now (ZA5000ES), but of course, I don't use all 11 channels. Maybe with 4 in-ceiling speakers, it would be easier to appreciate the difference that Atmos brings? Meh. I can also enjoy movies just fine on my 3.1 setup I have in the living room.
Fair enough; but ironically, what you outline above is precisely why I didn't want to run my video from our Panasonic UHD BD player through a new AVR -- the complexity of changing HDMI specs, etc. So many people have reported problems with video passthrough on these newer AVRs because they've implemented 8K video now (which is, supposedly, mainly geared toward gamers).
In the past, with 1080p high def, the Blu-ray players were equipped with just one HDMI out for audio and video, so you were kind of forced to send everything over one cable to an AVR, and then the video would be split to the display -- with these new UHD BD players, there are dual HDMI outs, so the audio and video can be split. I remember when I had my first Panasonic DMP-BD10A player (and then the Oppo BDP-83) and I sent one cable from it to the Onkyo 605, and from there another HDMI cable passed the video from the AVR to our display.
Just seems easier, in many ways, to split the audio and video from the source -- after all, I only use the Denon onscreen menu system to check system settings from time to time, and I can do that via a separate HDMI input on my TV. -
That's all fine and works well with a TV that is closely mounted to your AV equip. My projector is ceiling mounted and it needs a 30' active 4K HDMI cable. So, I need HDMI switching to send everything down that long cable. Its not practical to run multiple cables.For rig details, see my profile. Nothing here anymore...
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It IMO is much better to send the video directly to the TV, projector etc less chance to corrupt the signal.
The HDMI problem with Onkyo gear has been well known for awhile now.
On many it's not "IF" it will happen it is "when" it will happen, because it will happen. -
Indeed; our player and AVR is just to the right of the TV in the pier of an entertainment center. Maybe someday we'll have a projector setup, but I've always preferred the images from a one-piece television system (gotta upgrade the size at some point though!).
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It IMO is much better to send the video directly to the TV, projector etc less chance to corrupt the signal.
The HDMI problem with Onkyo gear has been well known for awhile now.
On many it's not "IF" it will happen it is "when" it will happen, because it will happen.
That's my feeling, as well, with regard to the corruption of the video signal (though many argue that these HDMI repeaters don't degrade the signal at all if they're of quality).
As for Onkyo -- are you referring to the failure of the HDMI boards? Because as I understand it, this has been fixed a few generations ago... -
That's all fine and works well with a TV that is closely mounted to your AV equip. My projector is ceiling mounted and it needs a 30' active 4K HDMI cable. So, I need HDMI switching to send everything down that long cable. Its not practical to run multiple cables.
Bill, am I mistaken, I thought there was a way to send signal over long distance on cat6 to hdmi? Does that just open another can of worms? -
Bill, am I mistaken, I thought there was a way to send signal over long distance on cat6 to hdmi? Does that just open another can of worms?
Worms and money...mostly money. Lots of extra components, and knowledge required vs a $50 redmere HDMI cable.
For rig details, see my profile. Nothing here anymore... -
It IMO is much better to send the video directly to the TV, projector etc less chance to corrupt the signal.
The HDMI problem with Onkyo gear has been well known for awhile now.
On many it's not "IF" it will happen it is "when" it will happen, because it will happen.
The Onkyo Brand had a Chip issue many many years ago. The Current line and the last lineup and actually one before that, the issue was corrected. It was an overheating issue on the Ethernet circuit and caused Amp and HDMI failures. Again today this is a NON ISSUE.
As far as sending the video directly to your display, nothing wrong with that IF you have E ARC. E ARC can send Atmos back to your AVR IF you need to use that format. IF you are running 5.1, you're good with just Optical or ARC. Well as good as you can be. Allow me to explain. ARC and E ARC are UNRELIABLE. They don't always work. Now you're fixing your system over using it. Optical rarely ever has any issues so safe bet there.
So let's talk about the Projectors. Hardly NON of the Projectors on the market and send audio back. So you either have to SPLIT your HDMI single out or your source will have to have other means to send audio to your AVR. Your also using more cables to make cable mess using HDMI to the TV and HDMI to the AVR for audio only or Coax or Optical IF your setup doesn't support a form of ARC.
I find all this tiring and a waste of time. Today's AVR's don't affect the video signal at all. There is no MESS UP of the video. Most AVR's today all have the ability to pass the correct video to your display.
Now is that flawless? Absolutely NOT. There is this evil thing called EDID and IF you have longer than 8m HDMI cables that are not perfectly built, and even if they are, EDID can get lost and now your trying to figure out how to fix it.
Can a consumer fix this???? Well depends on how deep their pockets are. I have a$1400 meter that monitors the EDID signals and allow me to know what the EDID is. Then I have to install another device to FIX EDID issues in a EDID corrector. This will show the chain 1 corrected EDID and allow the video signals to pass correctly.
These issues also come up with running more than 1 display like if you have a Projector with a drop down screen and a Flat panel in the same room. Maybe you use the Flat panel for the news, sports or TV and when you want to watch a movie, you switch to the Projector and screen. This is when EDID can show it's ugly face and cause issues.Dan
My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time. -
Because you haven't taken a turing test yet.
In my opinion, by lasting so long and getting deep into comments on the second page of thread without leaving, you have passed.
Welcome to the forum. Others may Disagree! Please see Off Topic Thread."Sometimes you have to look to the past to understand where you are going in the future"Anger is just anger. It isn’t good. It isn’t bad. It just is. What you do with it is what matters.
You can use it to build or to destroy. You just have to make the choice. Jim Butcher
Harry / Marietta GA -
I thought the Onkyo HDMI thing was fixed (just agreeing with Mantis here).
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John_Lohmann wrote: »I thought the Onkyo HDMI thing was fixed (just agreeing with Mantis here).
With all the changes in HDMI specs, requiring different hardware each change, it is hard to say anything definitive. It seems like with every change in spec, there is a 1st gen of receivers that are sketchy. Then they fix it, and things are fine until the next big spec change. I had a 2013 model Integra (Onkyo twin) that was more than 10 years old with no HDMI issues.
Onkyo had things fixed with the 1080p and 4k-non HDCP2.2 receivers after 2012. Not many issues when the added HDCP2.2. The newest 8K and HDCP2.3? Time will tell...
You can sorta follow a pattern of used receivers on eBay that are being sold for parts. Sometimes it takes 5+ years to really see a pattern with failures.
Post edited by billbillw onFor rig details, see my profile. Nothing here anymore... -
John_Lohmann wrote: »I thought the Onkyo HDMI thing was fixed (just agreeing with Mantis here).
With all the changes in HDMI specs, requiring different hardware each change, it is hard to say anything definitive. It seems like with every change in spec, there is a 1st gen of receivers that are sketchy. Then they fix it, and things are fine until the next big spec change. I had a 2013 model Integra (Onkyo twin) that was more than 10 years old with no HDMI issues.
Onkyo had things fixed with the 1080p and 4k-non HDCP2.2 receivers after 2012. Not many issues when the added HDCP2.2. The newest 8K and HDCP2.3? Time will tell...
You can sorta follow a pattern of used receivers on eBay that are being sold for parts. Sometimes it takes 5+ years to really see a pattern with failures.
Was just going by what I've seen reported; seems not too many complaints, if any at all, about the current Onkyo line. I'd be returning to their products had it not been for two factors in terms of features they're leaving off their amps now.
