Lets talk Sample rates.
Comments
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I'd like to buy some popcorn and watch, as you try to connect 6 AWG wire to speaker terminals and an amp.I'll do you all one better. What if I go buy some pure 6 AWG copper wire (used for electric ranges), shield it with aluminum foil, and then see if I can hear the difference over that vs 18 AWG RCA CCA speaker wire?
There isn't an 'audiophile grade speaker cable' in the world that could match it in terms of conductivity, power transfer, and low resistance
Chris, I appreciate your enthusiasm, and there is always the need to inject some youth into this hobby. But, I recommend that you slow your roll, and glean some knowledge from the old farts here. If you behave, you might even find yourself the recipient of some freebie equipment for your own personal experimentation."This may not matter to you, but it does to me for various reasons, many of them illogical or irrational, but the vinyl hobby is not really logical or rational..." - member on Vinyl Engine
"Sometimes I do what I want to do. The rest of the time, I do what I have to." - Cicero, in Gladiator
Regarding collectibles: "It's not who gets it. It's who gets stuck with it." - Jimmy Fallon -
I preferred the sound of these inexpensive ($320/8ft pair) silver coated copper braided speaker wires in my system vs regular copper.
Which ones, Drew? I wasn't able to remotely activate your webcam at the time of your posting to see which ones you were talking about. I was able to later though. Side note: your cat's litter box needs attention, and those new sofa cushions are awful!
Talked about them here: https://forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/195541/five-way-speaker-cable-comparison
They aren't available anymore it looks like, but these are pretty similar: https://www.ebay.com/itm/255294394140
They have gold plated spades/banana plugs vs the "rhodium" plated ones on my set, but the actual wiring looks to be exactly the same.
Edit: Looks like it, or something like it, is available in bulk as well: https://www.ebay.com/itm/325726890719 -
I preferred the sound of these inexpensive ($320/8ft pair) silver coated copper braided speaker wires in my system vs regular copper.
Which ones, Drew? I wasn't able to remotely activate your webcam at the time of your posting to see which ones you were talking about. I was able to later though. Side note: your cat's litter box needs attention, and those new sofa cushions are awful!
Talked about them here: https://forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/195541/five-way-speaker-cable-comparison
They aren't available anymore it looks like, but these are pretty similar: https://www.ebay.com/itm/255294394140
They have gold plated spades/banana plugs vs the "rhodium" plated ones on my set, but the actual wiring looks to be exactly the same.
Edit: Looks like it, or something like it, is available in bulk as well: https://www.ebay.com/itm/325726890719
Ah, nice. I remember that shootout you detailed. Great example of the kinds of differences one can experience with different cable designs in a resolving system. Thanks for the new links, as well.
I've been curious about rhodium connectors from back when I was trying to choose connectors for my DIY builds.I disabled signatures. -
FWIW Rhodium doesn't make the top ten in conductivity, it is a very hard metal and many times it is used on items that get hard use with many plug-unplug connections. They also like to flash it over silver to keep the wear off the silver. Either way it DOES have a sound signature, I think that is where many people say silver is bright and brittle sounding, which I agree too much silver in ones system can be harsh/bright, but I think what many attribute to the silver may be the Rhodium over the silver.
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Hmm, so I've come to an epiphany.
If cables (conductors) don't affect sound, then how on earth do capacitors affect sound (which I've personally heard the massive differences they do make)?
They're both just conductors, yet ClarityCap PX, CSA, PUR all have a different sound to them. Perhaps some testing is in order. I wonder if some local audiophiles would have some gear I can use to measure sound signatures with. Would be a very cool experiment. -
Measure ? Why not use the best measuring device made, your ears?
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Measure ? Why not use the best measuring device made, your ears?
Because ears aren't reliable due to the brain. The brain is a very cool meat computer but it can get pretty messed up. Was it Monster who made people think their cables were better simply by turning the volume up a few decibels?
Either way, the ears alone are reliable, but the brain isn't, and it can be subtly subconsciously tricked too easily for me to consider my subjective testing good enough to be fact. -
You’re contradicting yourself, aren’t you? How can you be sure you heard differences in the various caps, then?
Brian
One-owner Polk Audio RTA 15TL speakers refreshed w/ Sonicap, Vishay/Mills and Cardas components by "pitdogg2," "xschop" billet tweeter plates and BH5 | Stereo REL Acoustics T/5x subwoofers w/ Bassline Blue cables | Rogue Audio Cronus Magnum III integrated tube amp | Technics SL-1210G turntable w/ Ortofon 2M Black LVB 250 MM cart | Sony CDP-508ESD CD player (as a transport) | LampizatOr Baltic 4 tube DAC | Nordost & DH Labs cables/interconnects | APC H15 Power Conditioner | GIK Acoustics room treatments | Degritter RCM -
You’re contradicting yourself, aren’t you? How can you be sure you heard differences in the various caps, then?
Good point. I suppose the only real argument I could give is that with cables I'm testing frequency response, the capacitors actually gave entirely new detail and let me hear parts of the song I genuinely couldn't before (I did do a comparison side by side with the old board).
I can't necessarily say I genuinely did though, it really could be placebo. I do know that the parts needed replacing anyways because they were like 35 years old and would be drifting out of tolerance anyways. So even if it were placebo I can still justify the new high quality components. -
Hmm, so I've come to an epiphany.
If cables (conductors) don't affect sound, then how on earth do capacitors affect sound (which I've personally heard the massive differences they do make)?
…Good point. I suppose the only real argument I could give is that with cables I'm testing frequency response, the capacitors actually gave entirely new detail and let me hear parts of the song I genuinely couldn't before (I did do a comparison side by side with the old board).
I can't necessarily say I genuinely did though, it really could be placebo.
…
Now you’re talking in circles.
Carry on …
Brian
One-owner Polk Audio RTA 15TL speakers refreshed w/ Sonicap, Vishay/Mills and Cardas components by "pitdogg2," "xschop" billet tweeter plates and BH5 | Stereo REL Acoustics T/5x subwoofers w/ Bassline Blue cables | Rogue Audio Cronus Magnum III integrated tube amp | Technics SL-1210G turntable w/ Ortofon 2M Black LVB 250 MM cart | Sony CDP-508ESD CD player (as a transport) | LampizatOr Baltic 4 tube DAC | Nordost & DH Labs cables/interconnects | APC H15 Power Conditioner | GIK Acoustics room treatments | Degritter RCM -
More like talking out his a$$.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
Hmm, so I've come to an epiphany.
If cables (conductors) don't affect sound, then how on earth do capacitors affect sound (which I've personally heard the massive differences they do make)?
…Good point. I suppose the only real argument I could give is that with cables I'm testing frequency response, the capacitors actually gave entirely new detail and let me hear parts of the song I genuinely couldn't before (I did do a comparison side by side with the old board).
I can't necessarily say I genuinely did though, it really could be placebo.
…
Now you’re talking in circles.
Carry on …
Yeah it's entirely contradictory, I've acknowledged that. I'm just saying that I'm open to the fact that it's placebo. I mean, hey, wouldn't it be funny if I was wrong?
I hear a difference, yet it might be my brain playing tricks on me. Seems to make sense to me. My perception might be different than the objective truth. So what? I could have worded it better but you know what I meant. -
No, I massively, entirely, genuinely don’t know what you meant.
You either heard with your own two ears (and, yes, brain) differences you described with those adjectives/adverbs, or it was placebo.
Which one?
Brian
One-owner Polk Audio RTA 15TL speakers refreshed w/ Sonicap, Vishay/Mills and Cardas components by "pitdogg2," "xschop" billet tweeter plates and BH5 | Stereo REL Acoustics T/5x subwoofers w/ Bassline Blue cables | Rogue Audio Cronus Magnum III integrated tube amp | Technics SL-1210G turntable w/ Ortofon 2M Black LVB 250 MM cart | Sony CDP-508ESD CD player (as a transport) | LampizatOr Baltic 4 tube DAC | Nordost & DH Labs cables/interconnects | APC H15 Power Conditioner | GIK Acoustics room treatments | Degritter RCM -
No, I massively, entirely, genuinely don’t know what you meant.
You either heard with your own two ears (and, yes, brain) differences you described with those adjectives/adverbs, or it was placebo.
Which one?
Having a little trouble are we? I believe I heard with my ears, but it also could have been placebo.
If you need an analogy Id be happy to provide one -
No trouble here. I definitely got it. 👍
Brian
One-owner Polk Audio RTA 15TL speakers refreshed w/ Sonicap, Vishay/Mills and Cardas components by "pitdogg2," "xschop" billet tweeter plates and BH5 | Stereo REL Acoustics T/5x subwoofers w/ Bassline Blue cables | Rogue Audio Cronus Magnum III integrated tube amp | Technics SL-1210G turntable w/ Ortofon 2M Black LVB 250 MM cart | Sony CDP-508ESD CD player (as a transport) | LampizatOr Baltic 4 tube DAC | Nordost & DH Labs cables/interconnects | APC H15 Power Conditioner | GIK Acoustics room treatments | Degritter RCM -
I’ve seen some piss threads here but this one has gots to be the yellowist mine eyes have laid their balls upon! 😳"if it's not fun, it's not worth it & remember folks, "It's All About The Music"!!
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Hmm, so I've come to an epiphany.
If cables (conductors) don't affect sound, then how on earth do capacitors affect sound (which I've personally heard the massive differences they do make)?
…Good point. I suppose the only real argument I could give is that with cables I'm testing frequency response, the capacitors actually gave entirely new detail and let me hear parts of the song I genuinely couldn't before (I did do a comparison side by side with the old board).
I can't necessarily say I genuinely did though, it really could be placebo.
…
Now you’re talking in circles.
Carry on …
Yeah it's entirely contradictory, I've acknowledged that. I'm just saying that I'm open to the fact that it's placebo. I mean, hey, wouldn't it be funny if I was wrong?
I hear a difference, yet it might be my brain playing tricks on me. Seems to make sense to me. My perception might be different than the objective truth. So what? I could have worded it better but you know what I meant.
Just buy a cheap system and tell yourself it sounds better than anything you've ever heard. -
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Tom~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~ -
They need more cowbell...Polk Audio SDA 2.3tl Fully Hot Rodded. 😎
SVS SB16 X2
Cary SLP-05/Ultimate Upgrade.
Cary SA-500.1 ES Amps
Cary DMS 800PV Network
OPPO UDP 205/ModWright Modification
VPI Scout TT / Dynavector 20x2
Jolida JD9 Fully Modified
VPI MW-1 Cyclone RCM
MIT Shotgun 3 cables throughout / Except TT, and PC’s -
Polk Audio SDA 2.3tl Fully Hot Rodded. 😎
SVS SB16 X2
Cary SLP-05/Ultimate Upgrade.
Cary SA-500.1 ES Amps
Cary DMS 800PV Network
OPPO UDP 205/ModWright Modification
VPI Scout TT / Dynavector 20x2
Jolida JD9 Fully Modified
VPI MW-1 Cyclone RCM
MIT Shotgun 3 cables throughout / Except TT, and PC’s -
Polk Audio SDA 2.3tl Fully Hot Rodded. 😎
SVS SB16 X2
Cary SLP-05/Ultimate Upgrade.
Cary SA-500.1 ES Amps
Cary DMS 800PV Network
OPPO UDP 205/ModWright Modification
VPI Scout TT / Dynavector 20x2
Jolida JD9 Fully Modified
VPI MW-1 Cyclone RCM
MIT Shotgun 3 cables throughout / Except TT, and PC’s -
All gear actually sounds the same, it's just the sampling that makes the difference
Ymmv- Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit. -
Yeah, but you can't hear the difference between 44.1kHz and AM radio.I disabled signatures.
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"All gear actually sounds the same, it's just the sampling that makes the difference
Ymmv"
So on that note, I was looking for identical albums on HDtracks that I could get in different SRs. I got distracted when looking for music that I'm Familiar with and found this: https://www.hdtracks.com/#/album/5debab08f73cc8ae84d3332e . I'm a huge fan of Radiohead and lately cover tunes. It comes in two different SRs and bit depths.
2ch rig: Speakers: Magnepan LRS w/Magna Riser stands Preamplifier: Parasound P5 Amplifier: Parasound A23 CDP: Pioneer DV-563A Cables: Wireworld Equinox 7 XLR ICs, Wireworld Ultraviolet 7 USB, AudioQuest Q2s, AudioQuest NRG X(preamp)
Standby: LSi9s with VR3's Fortress mods -
Interesting. I like a couple of those Radiohead tracks. A bit pleasantly-melancholy/haunting. Is that that singer's vocal style?
When you buy music on HDTracks, if you buy higher resolution, do you also have access to lower resolution, or are those separate purchases?
I disabled signatures. -
Interesting. I like a couple of those Radiohead tracks. A bit pleasantly-melancholy/haunting. Is that that singer's vocal style?
When you buy music on HDTracks, if you buy higher resolution, do you also have access to lower resolution, or are those separate purchases?
You know your question has got me thinking. Couldn't I Take an album in 192Khz and down sample it step by step? I'm thinking I could save some $$ by not having to buy the same album over and over, just make the devices do all the work?Post edited by HzTweaker on2ch rig: Speakers: Magnepan LRS w/Magna Riser stands Preamplifier: Parasound P5 Amplifier: Parasound A23 CDP: Pioneer DV-563A Cables: Wireworld Equinox 7 XLR ICs, Wireworld Ultraviolet 7 USB, AudioQuest Q2s, AudioQuest NRG X(preamp)
Standby: LSi9s with VR3's Fortress mods -
My experience With downloaded hi-res is that it's only in the SR/BD that is downloaded in.2ch rig: Speakers: Magnepan LRS w/Magna Riser stands Preamplifier: Parasound P5 Amplifier: Parasound A23 CDP: Pioneer DV-563A Cables: Wireworld Equinox 7 XLR ICs, Wireworld Ultraviolet 7 USB, AudioQuest Q2s, AudioQuest NRG X(preamp)
Standby: LSi9s with VR3's Fortress mods -
Interesting. I like a couple of those Radiohead tracks. A bit pleasantly-melancholy/haunting. Is that that singer's vocal style?
When you buy music on HDTracks, if you buy higher resolution, do you also have access to lower resolution, or are those separate purchases?
You know your question has got me thinking. Couldn't I Take an album in 192Khz and down sample it step by step? I'm thinking I could save some $$ by not having to buy the same album over and over, just make the devices do all the work?
Yeah, you can. I wonder what they use to create lower resolution versions, and whether it matters. I'm sure somewhere there's an argument about this on both sides.
I'm not familiar enough with this process. Are there music processing engines that are better than others?
Would you be able to tell the difference if you just downsampled in Audacity or CoolEditPro? (is that even around anymore?)
I suppose you could convert a track and then compare the waveform to a downloaded one for a visual sense as well as what you hear? Not sure any of those tools would be definitive.
Reminds me of a discussion about cables some time ago. I came across a vendor or manufacturer a while back who proposed using a "difference" wave or file or something. I forget what it was called, but it involved taking a recording of playback output from a particular set of parameters, and overlaying that recording on another one, capturing the diffence data to a new track. In theory, this would give you an audio recording of what is different between a control and test track.
I did this, and it actually, works, however there's a glaring question of timing, and how sensitive the ear is to offset.
See, the tracks have to be overlaid at the exact same point of start. Audacity, I think, was only accurate to hundredths or thousandths of a second, so while there was difference data between recordings from two tracks, I couldn't be sure whether it was "missing" information, or simply delay offset data, or maybe both.
It was interesting, though. I'll try to find that thread.
(*written on stupid mobile. any typos are my fault, but I don't effing care anymore)I disabled signatures. -
According to a study conducted by Aalto University and genelac, the human ear can detect timing anomalies to a half a millisecond.
