Lets talk Sample rates.

ChrisD06

nooshinjohn wrote: »

Also as for the cables, I'll stick to what the science says….



Science says that silver is a better conductor than copper and therefore there will be differences in sound, just as there are differences in sound between aluminum and copper.

If all wire sounds the same, the coat hangers from the dry cleaner would be a valuable commodity.

So you're telling me that because silver is a slightly better conductor, it changes the sound? Show me the Science which proves that silver changes the way electrons flow throughout it, please.

Silver being a better conductor only means that to match a, say, 10 AWG 99% OFC cable, you'd only need a 12 AWG silver cable.

Hell, I use 18 AWG because at the 2 meter runs I use for my front speakers, I have no power loss at the wattage I use (literally use 1 watt at max volume). I'll probably get some 14 AWG eventually only because of my surrounds.

The silver is not changing the frequency response. That's not how electricity works, but most audiophiles seem to believe they can hear things which defy the laws of thermodynamics and whatnot 😆

treitz3

No belief needed. All you have to do is experience it. Then you will know. With that said, this is off topic.

Tom

ChrisD06

Silver is roughly 7% more conductive than copper and has a slightly lower resistance. To match the supposed of sound quality just go to a lower guage with 99% OFC wire and you'll end up with the same audio quality.

That is to say, in order to have nearly no resistance (0 power loss), you could use 10 AWG 99% OFC like I said, and the silver wire would only need to be slightly thinner to achieve the same quality.

Except it's miles more expensive, and it's a ripoff

HzTweaker

Okay here's a fun fact. The PS5 doesn't play SACDs and won't play CDs as well? What H E L L Sony, they invented the Schiit!!!

honestaquarian

ONLY the original PS3 will play SACD's. I know because I had one.
It died.
Then I got a PS3 slim. it would play Blu-ray's like the original PS3, but not SACD.
Then it died.
So I gave up and got another Oppo BDP-103

invalid

ChrisD06 wrote: »

nooshinjohn wrote: »

Also as for the cables, I'll stick to what the science says….



Science says that silver is a better conductor than copper and therefore there will be differences in sound, just as there are differences in sound between aluminum and copper.

If all wire sounds the same, the coat hangers from the dry cleaner would be a valuable commodity.

So you're telling me that because silver is a slightly better conductor, it changes the sound? Show me the Science which proves that silver changes the way electrons flow throughout it, please.

Silver being a better conductor only means that to match a, say, 10 AWG 99% OFC cable, you'd only need a 12 AWG silver cable.

Hell, I use 18 AWG because at the 2 meter runs I use for my front speakers, I have no power loss at the wattage I use (literally use 1 watt at max volume). I'll probably get some 14 AWG eventually only because of my surrounds.

The silver is not changing the frequency response. That's not how electricity works, but most audiophiles seem to believe they can hear things which defy the laws of thermodynamics and whatnot 😆

I suppose you think that electricity is merely a flow of electrons in a wire, it is also a flow of photons in an electromagnetic wave.

ChrisD06

invalid wrote: »

ChrisD06 wrote: »

nooshinjohn wrote: »

Also as for the cables, I'll stick to what the science says….



Science says that silver is a better conductor than copper and therefore there will be differences in sound, just as there are differences in sound between aluminum and copper.

If all wire sounds the same, the coat hangers from the dry cleaner would be a valuable commodity.

So you're telling me that because silver is a slightly better conductor, it changes the sound? Show me the Science which proves that silver changes the way electrons flow throughout it, please.

Silver being a better conductor only means that to match a, say, 10 AWG 99% OFC cable, you'd only need a 12 AWG silver cable.

Hell, I use 18 AWG because at the 2 meter runs I use for my front speakers, I have no power loss at the wattage I use (literally use 1 watt at max volume). I'll probably get some 14 AWG eventually only because of my surrounds.

The silver is not changing the frequency response. That's not how electricity works, but most audiophiles seem to believe they can hear things which defy the laws of thermodynamics and whatnot 😆

I suppose you think that electricity is merely a flow of electrons in a wire, it is also a flow of photons in an electromagnetic wave.

Did you copy and paste that from https://quantumphysicslady.org/what-is-the-difference-between-an-electron-and-a-photon/#:~:text=Photons and electrons interact to,photons in an electromagnetic wave.

invalid

I did not, but is that where you looked it up at?

msg

ChrisD06 wrote: »

nooshinjohn wrote: »

Also as for the cables, I'll stick to what the science says….



Science says that silver is a better conductor than copper and therefore there will be differences in sound, just as there are differences in sound between aluminum and copper.

If all wire sounds the same, the coat hangers from the dry cleaner would be a valuable commodity.

So you're telling me that because silver is a slightly better conductor, it changes the sound? Show me the Science which proves that silver changes the way electrons flow throughout it, please.

Silver being a better conductor only means that to match a, say, 10 AWG 99% OFC cable, you'd only need a 12 AWG silver cable.

Hell, I use 18 AWG because at the 2 meter runs I use for my front speakers, I have no power loss at the wattage I use (literally use 1 watt at max volume). I'll probably get some 14 AWG eventually only because of my surrounds.

The silver is not changing the frequency response. That's not how electricity works, but most audiophiles seem to believe they can hear things which defy the laws of thermodynamics and whatnot 😆

Sorry dude, but this is closed-minded. (engineering and technology background here, fysa.)

It's not even about silver, specifically. That was just an example. The overall idea is that it's about design and system synergy.

Again, you don't have to believe it, or even fully understand it. You do, however, need your own experiences. Give yourself 5-15yrs after you start your career. If you're still interested in audio, blow a little hard earned money on yourself and your system(s). Post back.

You do not, however, need a ton of money to experience differences. I had a similar experience early on as what @jbreezy5 mentioned - a budget cable being a better fit than a more expensive, well regarded one. This is the synergy piece. It's real.

nooshinjohn

ChrisD06 wrote: »

So you're telling me that because silver is a slightly better conductor, it changes the sound? Show me the
Did you copy and paste that from https://quantumphysicslady.org/what-is-the-difference-between-an-electron-and-a-photon/#:~:text=Photons and electrons interact to,photons in an electromagnetic wave.

I have zero time for anyone that can summarily dismiss the personal experiences of others without first doing the work and trying something for themselves. Henceforth, your future posts will not be seen by me. Welcome to the ignore list.

HzTweaker

honestaquarian wrote: »

ONLY the original PS3 will play SACD's. I know because I had one.
It died.
Then I got a PS3 slim. it would play Blu-ray's like the original PS3, but not SACD.
Then it died.
So I gave up and got another Oppo BDP-103

I have a second gen PS3 and it remains to be my favorite console to this day, even more so now that I know (I've known that it played these formats) it's more capable with other formats. I keep it museum peace clean.

I was going move it down stairs to do my listening comparisons but as I have a bit of an upset stomach I'm going to take it easy this evening. It's going to be a Youtube and baked chicken kind of night.

So now this is a game console and cable thread.... Who am I kidding, like I've never thread jacked before.

Carry on

Clipdat

I preferred the sound of these inexpensive ($320/8ft pair) silver coated copper braided speaker wires in my system vs regular copper.

HzTweaker

I wasn't always a believer in cables but take this advice:

msg
"Again, you don't have to believe it, or even fully understand it. You do, however, need your own experiences. Give yourself 5-15yrs after you start your career. If you're still interested in audio, blow a little hard earned money on yourself and your system(s). Post back."

My last cable upgrade was my speaker cables. I went from Monster Cable XP series (that I used for many years) to AQ Q2s and the difference was unreal! It could potentially aid your hearing in the differences from one sample rate to another in some cases. Don't knock it till you try it is all I'm saying.

gudnoyez

Got lots of Flac files that I play through my Musical Fidelity Dac or the Dac in my Oppo 105D, most sound great others not. I believe the source of the files is the reason for that.

I find for example the Flac files I have of Todd Rundgren fail in comparison to the CD or Vinyl version. That's my 2 cents. I listen to physical media more than the Flac files I have accumulated.

jbreezy5

nooshinjohn wrote: »

ChrisD06 wrote: »

So you're telling me that because silver is a slightly better conductor, it changes the sound? Show me the
Did you copy and paste that from https://quantumphysicslady.org/what-is-the-difference-between-an-electron-and-a-photon/#:~:text=Photons and electrons interact to,photons in an electromagnetic wave.

I have zero time for anyone that can summarily dismiss the personal experiences of others without first doing the work and trying something for themselves. Henceforth, your future posts will not be seen by me. Welcome to the ignore list.

@ChrisD06 - be glad; some people lack patience with others and shut them out, rather than contend with them.

I’m on his ignore list too.

Somebody call the Whaaambulance! 😂😂😂

https://youtu.be/QqolWUgxz7E?si=_tK4ZKX_NrOcblXw

bcwsrt

jbreezy5 wrote: »

…

IMO, more significant sonic gains can be had by upgrading speakers and/or system components as opposed to wires. Some costlier cables I’ve tried sounded inferior to uber-affordable ones.

To each his own.

I can agree up to the point where the upgrade path of your components and speakers brings you to a place where 1) your system is resolving enough to hear the differences in cables, and 2) you are generally happy with the way it sounds. After that, cables become yet another component that needs to be considered to elevate your listening experience.

Not every cable in my system made a profound difference, however, some definitely did. It was an interesting part of the hobby to explore, much like room treatments were, and I would not “de-cable” anything at this point because I’m happy with the sum of the parts, but I may try “re-cabling” in a place or two in search of further sonic improvements.

I say “may” because, I realize it could be the case that in those areas where I didn’t hear a difference, the source components themselves or my speakers may be the weak link (yes, it's a vicious cycle of sorts), but deciding how and where to budget for the next purchase is part of what makes the hobby fun.

ChrisD06

I'll do you all one better. What if I go buy some pure 6 AWG copper wire (used for electric ranges), shield it with aluminum foil, and then see if I can hear the difference over that vs 18 AWG RCA CCA speaker wire?

There isn't an 'audiophile grade speaker cable' in the world that could match it in terms of conductivity, power transfer, and low resistance

HzTweaker

That's a good point and why when I decided to start downloading hi-res music files I'd try my best to get them (as much as I can) from one site.

gudnoyez wrote: »

Got lots of Flac files that I play through my Musical Fidelity Dac or the Dac in my Oppo 105D, most sound great others not. I believe the source of the files is the reason for that.

I find for example the Flac files I have of Todd Rundgren fail in comparison to the CD or Vinyl version. That's my 2 cents. I listen to physical media more than the Flac files I have accumulated.

ChrisD06

jbreezy5 wrote: »

nooshinjohn wrote: »

ChrisD06 wrote: »

So you're telling me that because silver is a slightly better conductor, it changes the sound? Show me the
Did you copy and paste that from https://quantumphysicslady.org/what-is-the-difference-between-an-electron-and-a-photon/#:~:text=Photons and electrons interact to,photons in an electromagnetic wave.

I have zero time for anyone that can summarily dismiss the personal experiences of others without first doing the work and trying something for themselves. Henceforth, your future posts will not be seen by me. Welcome to the ignore list.

@ChrisD06 - be glad; some people lack patience with others and shut them out, rather than contend with them.

I’m on his ignore list too.

Somebody call the Whaaambulance! 😂😂😂

https://youtu.be/QqolWUgxz7E?si=_tK4ZKX_NrOcblXw

I lack patience, not with people who differ in opinion from me though. Rather, people who think their delusions and placebo effect is more credible than objective facts and quantifiable, proven science.

jbreezy5

@ChrisD06 - seriously though, I value measurements, as well as, subjective listening.

A cheap experiment for you would be to buy 6 feet of 10awg Blue Jeans Cable and compare your current 18awg copper cable by swapping them out.

Let us know your subjective findings.

Here’s a review with measurements of a few cables included. You can see how frequency response may be affected by cable design.

https://www.audioholics.com/gadget-reviews/kimber-kable-8pr/kk4pr-8prmeasurements

HzTweaker

ChrisD06 wrote: »

I'll do you all one better. What if I go buy some pure 6 AWG copper wire (used for electric ranges), shield it with aluminum foil, and then see if I can hear the difference over that vs 18 AWG RCA CCA speaker wire?

There isn't an 'audiophile grade speaker cable' in the world that could match it in terms of conductivity, power transfer, and low resistance

Dude, we aren't wiring a plug or listening to our ranges. We are listing to our systems and just reporting back. You should try it some time.....

treitz3

Jesus, some people's kids....

Tom

ChrisD06

jbreezy5 wrote: »

@ChrisD06 - seriously though, I value measurements, as well as, subjective listening.

A cheap experiment for you would be to buy 6 feet of 10awg Blue Jeans Cable and compare your current 18awg copper cable by swapping them out.

Let us know your subjective findings.

Here’s a review with measurements of a few cables included. You can see how frequency response may be affected by cable design.

https://www.audioholics.com/gadget-reviews/kimber-kable-8pr/kk4pr-8prmeasurements

Well the blue jeans is more expensive than the range wire, and would have significantly less conductivity and resistance.... wouldn't it make more sense to go with what should provide the 'cleanest' sound vs what would provide the 'dirtiest'?

jbreezy5

bcwsrt wrote: »

jbreezy5 wrote: »

…

IMO, more significant sonic gains can be had by upgrading speakers and/or system components as opposed to wires. Some costlier cables I’ve tried sounded inferior to uber-affordable ones.

To each his own.

I can agree up to the point where the upgrade path of your components and speakers brings you to a place where 1) your system is resolving enough to hear the differences in cables, and 2) you are generally happy with the way it sounds. After that, cables become yet another component that needs to be considered to elevate your listening experience.

Not every cable in my system made a profound difference, however, some definitely did. It was an interesting part of the hobby to explore, much like room treatments were, and I would not “de-cable” anything at this point because I’m happy with the sum of the parts, but I may try “re-cabling” in a place or two in search of further sonic improvements.

I say “may” because, I realize it could be the case that in those areas where I didn’t hear a difference, the source components themselves or my speakers may be the weak link (yes, it's a vicious cycle of sorts), but deciding how and where to budget for the next purchase is part of what makes the hobby fun.

I was able to hear differences in cables with an Arcam integrated and a pedestrian Sony cd player. Also with B&K separates. So it can be appreciated even with humble gear.

I’m cool with it if someone wants to go down that rabbit hole; I just have a limited willingness to spend serious bank on wire. Doesn't mean others shouldn’t.

jbreezy5

ChrisD06 wrote: »

jbreezy5 wrote: »

@ChrisD06 - seriously though, I value measurements, as well as, subjective listening.

A cheap experiment for you would be to buy 6 feet of 10awg Blue Jeans Cable and compare your current 18awg copper cable by swapping them out.

Let us know your subjective findings.

Here’s a review with measurements of a few cables included. You can see how frequency response may be affected by cable design.

https://www.audioholics.com/gadget-reviews/kimber-kable-8pr/kk4pr-8prmeasurements

Well the blue jeans is more expensive than the range wire, and would have significantly less conductivity and resistance.... wouldn't it make more sense to go with what should provide the 'cleanest' sound vs what would provide the 'dirtiest'?

By all means do whatever you think is best.

Just a suggestion to affordably let you determine if you can hear a difference between different copper wire gauges.

jbreezy5

treitz3 wrote: »

Jesus, some people's kids....

Tom

Indeed.

treitz3

Chris, I would advise to you to drop it. You are a one man band with your opinion on this and you are wrong.

You can twist the words, quite people on the internet and find all kinds of videos of cable deniers all over the web.

What you are doing here is losing respect. Fast.

Most of the people here not only know about utilizing different metallurgy within their cabling, they use it. That includes me.

We do not appreciate being labeled as, "believers" and having our experiences chalked up to a placebo effect and that we are delusional with what we hear.

I would advise getting your ears on things before you prance around this forum to save us from our delusions. You are quite simply showing the world how wildly inexperienced you are.

There are other forums out there where you can go and stroke each other's monkeys, pat each other on the back and talk all the smack you want about how cables don't make a difference and that all amplifiers sound the same. This is not one of them.

I would suggest going there because you are not making any friends here. We love to help people out along their audio journey but with your attitude and way of making friends?

Tom

ChrisD06

treitz3 wrote: »

Chris, I would advise to you to drop it. You are a one man band with your opinion on this and you are wrong.

You can twist the words, quite people on the internet and find all kinds of videos of cable deniers all over the web.

What you are doing here is losing respect. Fast.

Most of the people here not only know about utilizing different metallurgy within their cabling, they use it. That includes me.

We do not appreciate being labeled as, "believers" and having our experiences chalked up to a placebo effect and that we are delusional with what we hear.

I would advise getting your ears on things before you prance around this forum to save us from our delusions. You are quite simply showing the world how wildly inexperienced you are.

There are other forums out there where you can go and stroke each other's monkeys, pat each other on the back and talk all the smack you want about how cables don't make a difference and that all amplifiers sound the same. This is not one of them.

I would suggest going there because you are not making any friends here. We love to help people out along their audio journey but with your attitude and way of making friends?

Tom

The difference between amplifiers and cables is amplifiers process audio, cables simply take the electrical signal and move it. Amplifiers can sound different because they're complex and certain parts affect certain frequencies. A cable is a piece of metal which transfers a signal, and there's a certain point where you're getting into snake oil.

Saying these cables really are better because you can 'hear' a difference even though the actual science says that's not true, is like if I said I can taste the difference between two brands of water which literally measure the exact same. One might be more expensive and promise to be better, maybe it was hand made! But they're the same, end of story. It's impossible for them to be different after a certain point. Unless you went from 26 AWG cable to these snake oil ones, you are fooling yourself.

HzTweaker

ChrisD06 wrote: »

treitz3 wrote: »

Chris, I would advise to you to drop it. You are a one man band with your opinion on this and you are wrong.

You can twist the words, quite people on the internet and find all kinds of videos of cable deniers all over the web.

What you are doing here is losing respect. Fast.

Most of the people here not only know about utilizing different metallurgy within their cabling, they use it. That includes me.

We do not appreciate being labeled as, "believers" and having our experiences chalked up to a placebo effect and that we are delusional with what we hear.

I would advise getting your ears on things before you prance around this forum to save us from our delusions. You are quite simply showing the world how wildly inexperienced you are.

There are other forums out there where you can go and stroke each other's monkeys, pat each other on the back and talk all the smack you want about how cables don't make a difference and that all amplifiers sound the same. This is not one of them.

I would suggest going there because you are not making any friends here. We love to help people out along their audio journey but with your attitude and way of making friends?

Tom

The difference between amplifiers and cables is amplifiers process audio, cables simply take the electrical signal and move it. Amplifiers can sound different because they're complex and certain parts affect certain frequencies. A cable is a piece of metal which transfers a signal, and there's a certain point where you're getting into snake oil.

Saying these cables really are better because you can 'hear' a difference even though the actual science says that's not true, is like if I said I can taste the difference between two brands of water which literally measure the exact same. One might be more expensive and promise to be better, maybe it was hand made! But they're the same, end of story. It's impossible for them to be different after a certain point. Unless you went from 26 AWG cable to these snake oil ones, you are fooling yourself.

Clearly you didn't pay any attention in your chemistry class. Why wouldn't the differences in the compounds between metals make a difference on how the sound is transmitted?

Viking64

I don't ALWAYS advocate physical violence . . . . .