Taking a moment to talk about professional set up

displayname

This actually happened awhile ago, but just now getting around to sharing. We all know the importance of set up, but I wanted to share my experience with pulling in some help with a more professional set up.

Since moving to our current home back in 2020, my system has been pretty stable. I don’t think I’ve changed any major equipment in a couple of years. But I’ve written previously about the set up journey in this room. It’s gone as far as moving our record collection of approximately 1000 albums from the left side of the room to the back wall. I’ve also purchased bass traps that I was hoping to have a stronger impact with bass nodes in the room.

Skip has been in my room several times in the past, and he’s been kind enough to let me sample various equipment in my system as well trying to identify if I was having gear issues, or if it’s purely room issues.
So after some time Skip decided to put his set up skills to the test with a known challenge. He described what was done as a “light set up” process… but he put in about 3.5 hours purely working on speaker placement.

As a recap of challenges, I’m working with a smaller room. 15x12, upstairs on an old floor and as we discovered slightly bouncy floor. The floor is also slightly uneven, which seemed to be source of some of the image drift that would creep in on some recordings.





During this process Skip started by finding a starting point for a single speaker. He did this by listening for a specific tone on a test track sitting directly in front of the speaker. Once that speaker was in place I could already tell he was onto something. After that was set, we got speaker #2 into a general position and the measurement tape and levels came out. Digital bubble levels and laser levels. My general placement wasn’t too far off, having done several measurements and leveling on my own, but I’d never gone to this extent. A big discovery was the amount of actual slope in the floor. Not noticeable when you’re just moving around the room, but I’d previously noticed it when leveling the right speaker. In photos with the laser level you can actually see the slope on the window trim. Joys of old homes. The laser level also unveiled that we needed to set level based on one person in the listening position, because things just every so slightly move based on where a second person sits in the room.

We ultimately have one speaker with spikes going straight into the carpet, and one with the spike pad/floor protectors. (I feel like those have a better name, but it’s escaping me).

Outcomes: The bass traps are in storage. Something I never really noticed, but can’t unnoticed now, is that higher frequencies used to tilt upwards in the imaging. Now they are much more center locked. Vocals drifting to the left… Not any more. Just another step towards easily falling into the groove of a track rather than letting my mind drift thinking about the system.

I don’t want to oversell this idea. This is a lot more about squeezing the best out of your system. But most importantly this is a LOT cheaper than gear. If you have access to a professional in your area, and your spending good money on your system, I think this is a very worthwhile process and a good service. Finding someone with enough knowledge and experience is the hard part. I’m now even more curious what a new floor and Skip”s full set up process would yield with the same gear. I know next time I get speakers, I’ll be building a set up into the budget. I could do it myself, but the fact that Skip did it better in a few hours than I’ve done over the course of a couple years, just goes to show that it’s worth paying for experience sometimes.

Hope someone finds that helpful or entertaining. It’s not a sexy as new gear, but it has had a really positive impact in my system so I wanted to share.

heiney9

Thanks, nice write up. I think many of us understand the importance of bang on proper set-up, but are may be a little intimidated. I feel like it would be a monumental task and I wouldn't necessarily know where to even start. And I don't have a singular purpose space.

You're lucky because it seems you have a dedicated listening room. Many of us aren't able to have a singular room that can be optimally set-up and then left alone.

My rig is in the main living area and practicality is more important than "ultimate" set-up.

My next house will have a separate 2ch room for my 2ch rig.

H9

displayname

heiney9 wrote: »

Thanks, nice write up. I think many of us understand the importance of bang on proper set-up, but are may be a little intimidated. I feel like it would be a monumental task and I wouldn't necessarily know where to even start. And I don't have a singular purpose space.

You're lucky because it seems you have a dedicated listening room. Many of us aren't able to have a singular room that can be optimally set-up and then left alone.

My rig is in the main living area and practicality is more important than "ultimate" set-up.

My next house will have a separate 2ch room for my 2ch rig.

H9

That’s a fair point, having the luxury of a dedicated set up is huge. But even if you so have the system in a shared space, if you’re at a point where they aren’t moving, I still think it’s worth the while.
Again, a set up service is still less than gear, and these days probably way less than more square feet, lol.

Clipdat

Nice post, Willie! Glad you guys were able to spend some quality time getting things dialed in. Sounds like you made some real progress.

I see Skip used the T+A integrated during his testing. Did you listen to any music through that amp as well? Just curious.

displayname

Clipdat wrote: »

Nice post, Willie! Glad you guys were able to spend some quality time getting things dialed in. Sounds like you made some real progress.

I see Skip used the T+A integrated during his testing. Did you listen to any music through that amp as well? Just curious.

We sure did! Skip used that one during the set up for two reasons. Party because I’ve considered taking it off his hands, and partially because it’s got a little more bass authority which was needed for the set up. But really it was more so I could demo it in my room. It certainly does things the Duventi doesn’t do, and I think technically offers a more neutral sound. But as soon as we plugged the Duventi back in I just said “I really think I’d miss the the way this does vocals.”
Skip being the honest guy that he is didn’t even try to further convince me on the T+A. He just said “then wait until you can get the big Norma.” Honestly if/when that time comes, I’ll probably hold onto the Duventi for awhile just to be sure. I just love the tone of that amp.

During the process we also swapped in some AQ cables using both amps once we had things in place. I will say the mythical line of AQ cables are the real deal. The solid state amp reacted more to the cables, but they were a clear step up with either amp. This also clouds the idea of what to save for next. Going full AQ in the system with power cables, Pegasus ICs and Robinhood speaker cables would run about the same cost as the Norma 140. Granted I could do the cables in stages, but it’s something to think about and neither are on the immediate budget.

mantis

I use a bubble level, a Laser pointer and a tape measure. This is free except your time to dial in your system and as you know very fun to hear the differences when you tweak.
This is the part of my job I like the most. 2 channel or a full blown Atmos theater system.

mantis

heiney9 wrote: »

Thanks, nice write up. I think many of us understand the importance of bang on proper set-up, but are may be a little intimidated. I feel like it would be a monumental task and I wouldn't necessarily know where to even start. And I don't have a singular purpose space.

You're lucky because it seems you have a dedicated listening room. Many of us aren't able to have a singular room that can be optimally set-up and then left alone.

My rig is in the main living area and practicality is more important than "ultimate" set-up.

My next house will have a separate 2ch room for my 2ch rig.

H9

It's all good man, most people are in the exact same situation as you described but want good sound.
My room basically sucks for acoustics and I never got to build my Theater / 2 channel room in my basement. I had this house built almost 19 years ago now and had the basement raised up to 9 feet just for that reason. But I just never had the extra money to do it and the way I want to do it is expensive.

So I deal with my family room for both duties and just make it the best I can and my wife will allow. I move things around like my subwoofers to get better performance but she hates it as she wants to decorate as she sees fit.

I have thought about just going all on wall speakers and maybe using in floor subwoofers to clean up the room and make her happy. That wouldn't make me very happy.

Clipdat

About how much would it cost to complete your basement theater/2ch room?

SCompRacer

Skip is a setup pro! His rooms at the show always sound great.

I spent a weekend using OmniMic V2 to set up my speakers then subs. It's amazing what a few inches of placement this way or that makes. I've documented the measurements so placement can be repeated after moving things for cleaning.

Skip has so much experience he could have done it much quicker than I did.

marvda1

I say get the Norma amp then you can slip the cables in piecemeal, and the wife will never notice.

tratliff

Willie, glad to hear setup cured some of the room issues you were having. Skip is a master at setup. I have been in his listening room many times watching and hearing him make changes.

I agree with Marvin above get the Norma..... You should have Skip bring one over to evaluate in your room. That is what he did to me and I bought one the next week.

I took that approach on getting the Norma w/speaker cables (Thunderbirds) first. Then quickly moved to the Niagara 5000 w/Hurricanes. Each one of those steps was a significant leap.

Now I'm looking forward to getting the Volterra's. Skip is going to provide me the full service setup.

Should be awesome when complete.

displayname

tratliff wrote: »

Willie, glad to hear setup cured some of the room issues you were having. Skip is a master at setup. I have been in his listening room many times watching and hearing him make changes.

I agree with Marvin above get the Norma..... You should have Skip bring one over to evaluate in your room. That is what he did to me and I bought one the next week.

I took that approach on getting the Norma w/speaker cables (Thunderbirds) first. Then quickly moved to the Niagara 5000 w/Hurricanes. Each one of those steps was a significant leap.

Now I'm looking forward to getting the Volterra's. Skip is going to provide me the full service setup.

Should be awesome when complete.

I know he'd bring over the Norma if I asked. On the contrary, I prefer to not wreck my brain with unobtainable desires, so I have specifically asked Skip not to bring over a 140 until I tell him I actually have the cashflow to pull the trigger. I've heard it enough times to know that I won't want to go back, but until I can fund it, no sense in punishing myself.

SCompRacer

displayname wrote: »

.....so I have specifically asked Skip not to bring over a 140 until I tell him I actually have the cashflow to pull the trigger.....

Joey_V

Great to hear
Will love to hear that set up someday Willie

displayname

I just wanted to take a moment to dig up an old thread here.

Since having Skip do my setup nearly a year ago, I have only changed one thing in my system - I replaced my old power filtering power strip from the 90s/early 2000s with a Wire World Space Port.

I haven't been able to put in as focused solo time with my system lately. Just the stage of life we're in I guess. But this past couple of weeks I was able to hang out with Marvin and get a little dedicated time with my system.

Normally when I leave Marvin's house, I come home and immediately start plotting what dragon needs to be chased next. And honestly, at some points I've been a little lost or felt like maybe I've just been priced out of the next level. But this week, I didn't get to listen to our systems back to back in the same day. I had about a week between the two I think. But when I sat down to listen, I pulled up the same 4 tracks that Marvin and I were experimenting with at his house. And I felt joy. My system doesn't have the impact or all the detail that Marvin's system does. Why would it, it's probably less than a 3rd of the price tag. But I found myself not caring. I found myself connecting with the tracks. Just being impressed with my own system more than I remember the last few times I sat down.

I'm not saying I'm done. I'm plotting power cables. But I'm very glad to have simply found a sound that I enjoy, and that I've made friends with so many great and helpful likeminded audio nerds to allow me to explore this hobby in so much depth and get to a point where I can focus on refining what I enjoy rather overhauling everything.

I don't attribute to getting to this stage with any one single event. Just having Rosso in the house doesn't do it. It's people giving their time, advice, knowledge and guidance that gets you here. And that's a great reminder coming into the new year.

GlennDog

gratitude . . . well done sir!

Happy New Year!

audioluvr

Awesome! It's good to just sit back and enjoy the music.

bcwsrt

Great post! The last paragraph really resonates with me and my experiences with a number of folks on this fine forum.

Joey_V

Willie
At some point we need to link up and I’ll have you over
I think it’ll be loads of fun

displayname

Joey_V wrote: »

Willie
At some point we need to link up and I’ll have you over
I think it’ll be loads of fun

Totally agree!