Having to good of HDMI cables , WHAT????

Options
Ok ,
so I'm gonna share an insane thing I recently learned. In the field , I have experienced insane HDMI issues over the time HDMI has been out with sending it long runs and n some cases short runs. HDMI has been an issue since day one, stabled out for awhile and now with 4k-8k high refresh rates etc and system with a mix of older HDMI tech and brand new Tech don't always jell together.

But here is the mental part, you now can buy HDMI cables that are to good for your system. WHAT???? I don't see how this is even possible to buy a HDMI cable that is spec'd for 4k 120 8k 60 and it be to good to pass along lower Rez lower bandwidth need signals.
Oh but wait, there is more. The reason I was given is because the cable is built to transfer these high data rates, that it messes up the clocking or timing if you will of the signal arriving to early. I want to vote HDMI out of the game at this point as never before in history did a to good of cable make things not work. This happens all the time.

There is an article in CE PRO that explains this, I'll have to find it and post it here unless one of you find it. The amount of stress HDMI has caused in my life and now you can use the wrong cable HDMI and cause issues in your system to me is insane. But it's real as I have chased these issues and wasted countless hours doing so.

Dan
My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.

Comments

  • polrbehr
    polrbehr Posts: 2,826
    Options
    So what you're saying is, don't buy good cables? The naysayers out there will be cheering you and carrying you around in your chair as if you were at a Jewish wedding! ;)

    Just messing with ya, Dan, I think I get where you are coming from here. I have had issues with more than one HDMI-related thing, from handshake problems to an input on my AVR no longer working no matter how many cables I tried.
    So, are you willing to put forth a little effort or are you happy sitting in your skeptical poo pile?


    http://audiomilitia.proboards.com/
  • Emlyn
    Emlyn Posts: 4,430
    Options
    Some HDMI cables I've had in the past simply didn't work. They'd either pass a signal or do nothing but that was rare until I got 4K gear when the earliest ones would either work in some cases or not. Fortunately they're cheap enough to just get a replacement. I've been using these below for a while with zero issues no matter the gear but I also don't go beyond 10 feet with them. No issues with how they fit securely in HDMI jacks like the earliest cables had. This is a case where it hasn't made sense to me to get into expensive HDMI cables that in reality barely meet transmissioin standards compared to generic stuff.

    https://www.amazon.com/AmazonBasics-High-Speed-HDMI-Cable-Black/dp/B08BRZW1B7/ref=sr_1_4?crid=1DWJYIT66JHML&keywords=amazon+basics+hdmi&qid=1679055523&sprefix=amazon+basics+hdmi,aps,75&sr=8-4&th=1
  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 33,342
    edited March 2023
    Options
    The "digital treadmill" of continuous... umm... improvement (let's be more honest -- continuous change for the sake of change) is the root cause IMO* of most (perhaps all) of the consternation caused by modern technology. :(

    ___________________
    * Old guy and borderline Luddite that I am. :#
  • mantis
    mantis Posts: 17,126
    Options
    polrbehr wrote: »
    So what you're saying is, don't buy good cables? The naysayers out there will be cheering you and carrying you around in your chair as if you were at a Jewish wedding! ;)

    Just messing with ya, Dan, I think I get where you are coming from here. I have had issues with more than one HDMI-related thing, from handshake problems to an input on my AVR no longer working no matter how many cables I tried.

    I know your joking around but I'll be real with you. I'm a cable guy, I always have been since the beginning of being into this hobby and got my first pair of Monster cables way back when. They got me into the wire game and in the 90's when I started doing this for a living, I became obsessed with cables. Not just speaker cables and analog audio but video cables, digital cables , all of them. I own moe cables than any human should. I've been selling off my stock for decades and I still have an insane amount of cables. All the polk member who have been to my house and have seem my collection, even most of them think there is something wrong with me LOL.

    Anyway , HDMI has been a mess since day 1. There has been so many issues most people didn't deal with like I did. being in the field and installing countless system over the decades I have been doing this, I have experienced all of the problems and now there is this new one that damn near made me want to quit doing this for a living. I have been chasing HDMI issues for so long and for a short period of time, it got quiet and things actually worked. It was nice but now with 4k and 8k going on , long distance Projectors and even remote Tv's are not back with all kinds of issues.

    I recently went to a Sony Receiver training on the new models and I expressed what I have been dealing with new Sony Projectors, HDMI extenders etc and I was told that using the new 8k 10k cables is being found out are the issue. They don't have enough resistance to allow the clocking to clock correctly on 4k and down stuff. HDMI is supposed to be backwards compatible and has to be as not everything in everyones system is 4k or hell for that matter 4k or 4k120 etc. So if you own a Streaming box like. Roku or Apple TV, you need to be able to pass all available resolutions and when you have to send the video longer distances, and use HDMI extenders or fiber built HDMI cables, they need to pass all this signals and it seems since 8k came around, this is now a mess again. I want nothing more than for HDMi to go away and a net better video distribution system to be made.

    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
  • Emlyn
    Emlyn Posts: 4,430
    edited March 2023
    Options
    I found this to be quite informative. Having 19 conductors with different materials is complicated! If any of those conductors is faulty or just not connected the cable fails. The Amazon Basics 2.0 certified cables tend to pass 2.1 standards too. At least up to 10 feet. Beyond that is much more problemmatic so I understand why a pro who is doing projector installs would have major problems.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFbJD6RE4EY
  • mantis
    mantis Posts: 17,126
    Options
    Emlyn wrote: »
    I found this to be quite informative. Having 19 conductors with different materials is complicated! If any of those conductors is faulty or just not connected the cable fails. The Amazon Basics 2.0 certified cables tend to pass 2.1 standards too. At least up to 10 feet. Beyond that is much more problemmatic so I understand why a pro who is doing projector installs would have major problems.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFbJD6RE4EY
    That's really the kicker man. Not many projectors live 8m or less from the gear.

    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
  • Emlyn
    Emlyn Posts: 4,430
    Options
    I didn't even know there's a thing such as "Active HDMI" cables. Learnt something new today. It makes sense that companies would come up with a simple solution for signal boosting that isn't too expensive but it's also an indicator that the HDMI standard has major flaws in real world use. Still doesn't guarantee that boosted cables work 100% though!
  • tophatjohnny
    tophatjohnny Posts: 4,174
    Options
    Too good to be two times more expensive than the other ones !

    See what I did there!
    "if it's not fun, it's not worth it & remember folks, "It's All About The Music"!!
    *****************************
  • pitdogg2
    pitdogg2 Posts: 24,918
    Options
    Whenever you deal with that number of conductors that have progressively gotten smaller, basically like trying to terminate human hair.
  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,074
    Options
    Some have terminated human hair, just look at Tom.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk

  • pitdogg2
    pitdogg2 Posts: 24,918
    Options
    :D:D:D:D I'm dying here......
  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,299
    Options
    I honestly don't understand why hdmi ever became the standard. It is a **** connector every day of the week
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
  • pitdogg2
    pitdogg2 Posts: 24,918
    Options
    VR3 wrote: »
    I honestly don't understand why hdmi ever became the standard. It is a **** connector every day of the week

    Copy right protection......
  • Emlyn
    Emlyn Posts: 4,430
    Options
    True, copy protection was the main reason twenty years ago. It wasn't bandwidth. If someone wanted to see 1080P from Blu Ray or HD-DVD it was time to get a new everything so I did for both of those formats. It's been possible to rip Blu Rays for years now.

    My major annoyance is the standard has changed something like five times since then with each change requiring new cables, new equipment, or both, and providing only incremental new features.
  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,299
    Options
    Ethernet should be the standard for audio visual and data
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
  • DarqueKnight
    DarqueKnight Posts: 6,765
    Options
    In my home office, I have a long HDMI cable run from an Oppo UDP-203 player to an LG OLED 4K TV. I was getting complete signal loss when trying to view 4K movies over the long cable run with multiple connection points. Oppo tech support recommended an HDMI signal amplifier, the PxlDrive, and the use of certified premium HDMI cables. I selected Monoprice certified premium HDMI cables.

    There is a 20 foot HDMI cable run from the UDP-203 player to a wall jack. The wall jack has a 7 inch pigtail on the back side end which is attached to a 3 foot HDMI cable which runs inside the wall to the pigtail of the wall jack behind the wall mounted TV. A right angle HDMI adapter is plugged into the outside of the wall plate behind the TV. The right angle adapter was required because the space between the wall and the back of the TV did not allow for a bend radius in the HDMI cable. A 3 foot HDMI cable plugs into the right angle adapter and the other end plugs into the PxlDrive.

    ajh5j43uetxk.jpg
    PxlDrive HDMI signal amplifier. This product is no longer featured on the manufacturer's website. It appears to have been discontinued and replaced by their "PXLGLASS" product. I purchased my PxlDrive in 2019.

    2wwhrfq0idpz.jpg
    Wall mounted OLED TV in home office.

    nxjh8gn9p00d.jpg
    HDMI wall plate in home office.

    https://pixelgendesign.com/products

    Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country!
  • DarqueKnight
    DarqueKnight Posts: 6,765
    Options
    Yes....at twice the price.
    Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country!
  • Geoff4rfc
    Geoff4rfc Posts: 2,183
    Options
    mantis wrote: »
    I own more cables than any human should. I've been selling off my stock for decades and I still have an insane amount of cables. All the polk member who have been to my house and have seem my collection, even most of them think there is something wrong with me LOL.

    Overkill is highly overrated my friend....rock on, or in your case, cable on!!
    Source: BRP Panasonic UB9000, CDP Emotiva ERC3 - Display: LG OLED EVO 83 C3 - Pre/Pro: Marantz 8802A - Amplification: Emotiva XPA-DR3, XPA-2 x 2, XPA-6, Speakers, Mains/2ch-Focal Kanta No2's, C-LSiM706, S-702F/X, RS-RTiA9's, WS-RTiA9's, FH-RTiA3's, Subs - Epik Empire x 2

    Cables: AudioQuest McKenzie XLR's/CDP/Amp, Carbon 48/BRP, Forest 48/Display, 2 channel speaker cable: Furutech FS Alpha 36 12AWG PCOCC Single Crystal (Douglas Connection)

    EXPERIENCE: next to nothing, but I sure enjoy audio and video MY OPINION OF THIS HOBBY: I may not be a smart man, but I know what quicksand is.
    When I was young, I was Superman but now that old age has gotten the best of me I'm only Batman
  • Geoff4rfc
    Geoff4rfc Posts: 2,183
    Options

    2wwhrfq0idpz.jpg
    Wall mounted OLED TV in home office.

    nxjh8gn9p00d.jpg
    HDMI wall plate in home office.

    https://pixelgendesign.com/products

    Nice and clean, looks good man.
    Source: BRP Panasonic UB9000, CDP Emotiva ERC3 - Display: LG OLED EVO 83 C3 - Pre/Pro: Marantz 8802A - Amplification: Emotiva XPA-DR3, XPA-2 x 2, XPA-6, Speakers, Mains/2ch-Focal Kanta No2's, C-LSiM706, S-702F/X, RS-RTiA9's, WS-RTiA9's, FH-RTiA3's, Subs - Epik Empire x 2

    Cables: AudioQuest McKenzie XLR's/CDP/Amp, Carbon 48/BRP, Forest 48/Display, 2 channel speaker cable: Furutech FS Alpha 36 12AWG PCOCC Single Crystal (Douglas Connection)

    EXPERIENCE: next to nothing, but I sure enjoy audio and video MY OPINION OF THIS HOBBY: I may not be a smart man, but I know what quicksand is.
    When I was young, I was Superman but now that old age has gotten the best of me I'm only Batman