Advice on switching up my streaming setup.

stangman67
stangman67 Posts: 2,292
in 2 Channel Audio
Fellow Polkies,

Considering switching up my streaming setup. As of now I have a Cambridge 851N feeding a NSD Intenso Dac running Tidal.

I am considering picking up a Mac Mini and going USB out to a Gustard or Denafrips R2R DAC and using Roon.

Considerations for me, I am unfamiliar with the capabilities to control Roon from an app on my phone, that is really what I would like to have happen as I don’t want to have to use a keyboard and mouse and my TV to pick music. Has anyone tried to use Switch Control on a Mac for these purposes?

To all your more experienced streamers out there, does this upgrade path make sense? I really want to try a R2R dac but I don’t want to spend massive bucks on a streamer in the future if I can get similar performance out of a Mac feeding the dac directly.



2 Channel in my home attic/bar/man cave

2 Channel Focal Kanta 3 I Modwright SWL9.0 Anniversary Pre I Modwright PH9.0X I Modwright KWA-150SE I VPI Prime Signature w/ Soundsmith Zephyr MIMC I Lumin U2 Mini I North Star Designs Intenso DAC I Audience OHNO ICs/Audience Furutech FP-S55N and FP-S032N Power Cables/Acoustic Zen Satori I Isotek Sirius
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  • stangman67
    stangman67 Posts: 2,292
    Or is Roon remote the solution for this?
    2 Channel in my home attic/bar/man cave

    2 Channel Focal Kanta 3 I Modwright SWL9.0 Anniversary Pre I Modwright PH9.0X I Modwright KWA-150SE I VPI Prime Signature w/ Soundsmith Zephyr MIMC I Lumin U2 Mini I North Star Designs Intenso DAC I Audience OHNO ICs/Audience Furutech FP-S55N and FP-S032N Power Cables/Acoustic Zen Satori I Isotek Sirius
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  • Clipdat
    Clipdat Posts: 12,949
    In order to try the new DAC can't you just simply swap the Denafrips DAC for the North Star and leave everything else as is? I'd rather have the 851N as a streaming transport.

    Are you unhappy with the app interface for the 851N as well?
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  • stangman67
    stangman67 Posts: 2,292
    I could certainly go that route but I’d like to simplify stuff a bit. It would gain me valuable space on my rack. I don’t mind anything about the 851N. Sounds good, good interface, reliable. I just want to try something new.

    I imagine digital out on the Mac Mini will sound just as good as the digital out on the 851N. DAC is the big piece of the game here.

    But before I jump in, I’d like to hear opinions from people that have a setup like I am looking to do. IE stream from a computer as a Roon endpoint basically
    2 Channel in my home attic/bar/man cave

    2 Channel Focal Kanta 3 I Modwright SWL9.0 Anniversary Pre I Modwright PH9.0X I Modwright KWA-150SE I VPI Prime Signature w/ Soundsmith Zephyr MIMC I Lumin U2 Mini I North Star Designs Intenso DAC I Audience OHNO ICs/Audience Furutech FP-S55N and FP-S032N Power Cables/Acoustic Zen Satori I Isotek Sirius
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  • rooftop59
    rooftop59 Posts: 8,121
    Soon remote on an iPhone is just a great, slick app. Highly recommended.

    I have not tried it, but usually, computers introduce noise that dedicated streamers do not. I wouldn't recommend it.

    I know I will get flack for this, but I compared a Logitech squeezebox touch with enhanced audio output applet installed, hardwired ethernet, and bolder power supply used as a Roon endpoint, and with an external DAC and the same cable? Couldn't discern enough of a difference to justify the Cambridge. I definitely felt like it made more sense to put that money into an amp or DAC...just my experience...
    Living Room 2.2: Usher BE-718 "tiny dancers"; Dual DIY Dayton audio RSS210HF-4 Subs with Dayton SPA-250 amps; Arcam SA30; Musical Fidelity A308; Sony UBP-x1000es
    Game Room 5.1.4:     Denon AVR-X4200w; Sony UBP-x700; Definitive Technology Power Monitor 900 mains, CLR-3000 center, StudioMonitor 350 surrounds, ProMonitor 800 atmos x4; Sub - Monoprice Monolith 15in THX Ultra
    Bedroom 2.1     Harmon Kardon HK3490; Bluesounds Node N130; Polk RT25i; ACI Titan Subwoofer
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  • Clipdat
    Clipdat Posts: 12,949
    stangman67 wrote: »
    I could certainly go that route but I’d like to simplify stuff a bit. It would gain me valuable space on my rack. I don’t mind anything about the 851N. Sounds good, good interface, reliable. I just want to try something new.

    I imagine digital out on the Mac Mini will sound just as good as the digital out on the 851N. DAC is the big piece of the game here.

    But before I jump in, I’d like to hear opinions from people that have a setup like I am looking to do. IE stream from a computer as a Roon endpoint basically

    The streaming transport itself actually makes a big difference, hate to say it.

    Using a PC as the streaming transport isn't "ideal", not to mention that Roon imparts it's own sound quality - which I didn't personally care for. YMMV.

    I hear ya on the rack space issue though, I don't like stacking components.
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,746
    Agree. Streaming transport over pc every time
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • stangman67
    stangman67 Posts: 2,292
    Good points. I get that a high end streamer is probably a better option but what is harder is deciding where the equivalent price point is. Forking over the cash on a high end dac AND streamer is just hard to swallow. I’m not sure if the Mac Mini straight to a DAC is a good idea, just piqued my interest after I watched a YouTube video my Paul Gowan about his use of a Mac as a streamer and he seemed to be a huge fan of it in a very high end setup.
    2 Channel in my home attic/bar/man cave

    2 Channel Focal Kanta 3 I Modwright SWL9.0 Anniversary Pre I Modwright PH9.0X I Modwright KWA-150SE I VPI Prime Signature w/ Soundsmith Zephyr MIMC I Lumin U2 Mini I North Star Designs Intenso DAC I Audience OHNO ICs/Audience Furutech FP-S55N and FP-S032N Power Cables/Acoustic Zen Satori I Isotek Sirius
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  • Clipdat
    Clipdat Posts: 12,949
    Step one, stop listening to anything Paul McGowan has to say. o:)
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  • stangman67
    stangman67 Posts: 2,292
    My thing at this point is I know my streaming setup is leaving a lot on the table. Maybe I’ll have to upgrade the dac and then upgrade the streamer later on down the road
    2 Channel in my home attic/bar/man cave

    2 Channel Focal Kanta 3 I Modwright SWL9.0 Anniversary Pre I Modwright PH9.0X I Modwright KWA-150SE I VPI Prime Signature w/ Soundsmith Zephyr MIMC I Lumin U2 Mini I North Star Designs Intenso DAC I Audience OHNO ICs/Audience Furutech FP-S55N and FP-S032N Power Cables/Acoustic Zen Satori I Isotek Sirius
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  • rooftop59
    rooftop59 Posts: 8,121
    Clipdat wrote: »
    stangman67 wrote: »
    I could certainly go that route but I’d like to simplify stuff a bit. It would gain me valuable space on my rack. I don’t mind anything about the 851N. Sounds good, good interface, reliable. I just want to try something new.

    I imagine digital out on the Mac Mini will sound just as good as the digital out on the 851N. DAC is the big piece of the game here.

    But before I jump in, I’d like to hear opinions from people that have a setup like I am looking to do. IE stream from a computer as a Roon endpoint basically

    The streaming transport itself actually makes a big difference, hate to say it.

    Using a PC as the streaming transport isn't "ideal", not to mention that Roon imparts it's own sound quality - which I didn't personally care for. YMMV.

    I hear ya on the rack space issue though, I don't like stacking components.

    Of course, but my point is you have to go pretty high end to get better than what I have (probably 2k or higher for a dedicated streamer, no DAC), and I am not willing to pay that, and even if I was you then have to decide which makes the bigger difference: source, DAC, preamp, amp, or speakers (not to mention cables). I felt that I could make a bigger impact in other areas...perhaps @stangman67 feels the same...
    Living Room 2.2: Usher BE-718 "tiny dancers"; Dual DIY Dayton audio RSS210HF-4 Subs with Dayton SPA-250 amps; Arcam SA30; Musical Fidelity A308; Sony UBP-x1000es
    Game Room 5.1.4:     Denon AVR-X4200w; Sony UBP-x700; Definitive Technology Power Monitor 900 mains, CLR-3000 center, StudioMonitor 350 surrounds, ProMonitor 800 atmos x4; Sub - Monoprice Monolith 15in THX Ultra
    Bedroom 2.1     Harmon Kardon HK3490; Bluesounds Node N130; Polk RT25i; ACI Titan Subwoofer
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  • stangman67
    stangman67 Posts: 2,292
    Yea I’m at the post where I am happy with the the pre/amp/speakers/vinyl setup and cables. Really the digital side of the house is the last part to be upgraded and I just need to decide where I should be targeting my budget. I don’t want to spend 5g’s on a dac and streamer so at this point the DAC probably makes most sense to upgrade
    2 Channel in my home attic/bar/man cave

    2 Channel Focal Kanta 3 I Modwright SWL9.0 Anniversary Pre I Modwright PH9.0X I Modwright KWA-150SE I VPI Prime Signature w/ Soundsmith Zephyr MIMC I Lumin U2 Mini I North Star Designs Intenso DAC I Audience OHNO ICs/Audience Furutech FP-S55N and FP-S032N Power Cables/Acoustic Zen Satori I Isotek Sirius
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,746
    With streaming it literally all matters man. It has been mind blowing to me how much performance can be extracted and I'm sure I haven't even uncovered it all.

    Linear power supplies... Modems routers... Ethernet cables... DC power cables... Switches between the router and streamer... Filters....

    The actual steamer and dac is only part of the equation...

    And the cable between the streamer and dac is important

    Power supply for the streamer is insanely important!

    Of course the dac is important


    If your goal is ultimate performance, the path is long, deep and expensive!
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • Clipdat
    Clipdat Posts: 12,949
    edited February 2023
    Alternative option: Sell the 851N and the NorthStar and get an AIO streamer like a Vega G1/G2, Lumin T3, or Aurender A200.
    Post edited by Clipdat on
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  • rooftop59
    rooftop59 Posts: 8,121
    VR3 wrote: »
    With streaming it literally all matters man. It has been mind blowing to me how much performance can be extracted and I'm sure I haven't even uncovered it all.

    Linear power supplies... Modems routers... Ethernet cables... DC power cables... Switches between the router and streamer... Filters....

    The actual steamer and dac is only part of the equation...

    And the cable between the streamer and dac is important

    Power supply for the streamer is insanely important!

    Of course the dac is important


    If your goal is ultimate performance, the path is long, deep and expensive!

    I have a spouse and four amazing children. I enjoy my house, vacations, good food and wine, making sure my kids get a great education, etc. All those things cost lots of $$$.

    Ultimate performance never has been nor ever will be my goal. Carry on...
    Living Room 2.2: Usher BE-718 "tiny dancers"; Dual DIY Dayton audio RSS210HF-4 Subs with Dayton SPA-250 amps; Arcam SA30; Musical Fidelity A308; Sony UBP-x1000es
    Game Room 5.1.4:     Denon AVR-X4200w; Sony UBP-x700; Definitive Technology Power Monitor 900 mains, CLR-3000 center, StudioMonitor 350 surrounds, ProMonitor 800 atmos x4; Sub - Monoprice Monolith 15in THX Ultra
    Bedroom 2.1     Harmon Kardon HK3490; Bluesounds Node N130; Polk RT25i; ACI Titan Subwoofer
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,746
    No doubt!

    You can sensibly upgrade your streaming thru good deals and keeping it realistic.
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 33,905
    edited February 2023
    stangman67 wrote: »
    My thing at this point is I know my streaming setup is leaving a lot on the table...
    I am academically curious as to how you know this (as opposed to suspect this is the case)?

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  • stangman67
    stangman67 Posts: 2,292
    That’s awfully pedantic.

    Thanks for the input all. I’ll have to re-evaluate what my goals are and what I’m willing to spend to get there. I’m not unhappy with the way it is now, but I SUSPECT I can make some serious improvements with the streaming setup.
    2 Channel in my home attic/bar/man cave

    2 Channel Focal Kanta 3 I Modwright SWL9.0 Anniversary Pre I Modwright PH9.0X I Modwright KWA-150SE I VPI Prime Signature w/ Soundsmith Zephyr MIMC I Lumin U2 Mini I North Star Designs Intenso DAC I Audience OHNO ICs/Audience Furutech FP-S55N and FP-S032N Power Cables/Acoustic Zen Satori I Isotek Sirius
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  • Clipdat
    Clipdat Posts: 12,949
    edited February 2023
    Never know until you try. Do you have a local Auralic/Lumin/Aurender dealer who would let you do an in-home demo?

    Edit: Nevermind. I keep forgetting the fact that you want to go with the R2R DAC option.
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  • stangman67
    stangman67 Posts: 2,292
    Im in an audiophile dead zone. No dealers within 4 hours. DC is the closest hub with some decent dealers
    2 Channel in my home attic/bar/man cave

    2 Channel Focal Kanta 3 I Modwright SWL9.0 Anniversary Pre I Modwright PH9.0X I Modwright KWA-150SE I VPI Prime Signature w/ Soundsmith Zephyr MIMC I Lumin U2 Mini I North Star Designs Intenso DAC I Audience OHNO ICs/Audience Furutech FP-S55N and FP-S032N Power Cables/Acoustic Zen Satori I Isotek Sirius
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,746
    Ank dac!
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • stangman67
    stangman67 Posts: 2,292
    How involved is the assembly. The 2.1 Signature is intriguing
    2 Channel in my home attic/bar/man cave

    2 Channel Focal Kanta 3 I Modwright SWL9.0 Anniversary Pre I Modwright PH9.0X I Modwright KWA-150SE I VPI Prime Signature w/ Soundsmith Zephyr MIMC I Lumin U2 Mini I North Star Designs Intenso DAC I Audience OHNO ICs/Audience Furutech FP-S55N and FP-S032N Power Cables/Acoustic Zen Satori I Isotek Sirius
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,746
    I would go for the 4.1 pro, after current discount is under 3k. That is fully assembled

    Phenominal dac
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • Clipdat
    Clipdat Posts: 12,949
    Is that the one that you have?
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,746
    edited February 2023
    I have the 5.1 pro with the quad c core

    Owned the 4.1 before the 5.1
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • Clipdat
    Clipdat Posts: 12,949
    Well then the 5.1 pro is the one to get. Don't settle for anything less.
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  • audioluvr
    audioluvr Posts: 5,601
    edited February 2023
    I had the 851N. Streaming Tidal off my phone, to me, sounded bloated but using my laptop and a USB cable (which has a very good sound card) sounded much more natural, like a CD would. Now I just run a Gustard DAC and whether I use my phone (Bluetooth) or laptop (USB) they both sound fantastic. Navigation is better via laptop though.
    Gustard X26 Pro DAC
    Belles 21A Pre modded with Mundorf Supreme caps
    B&K M200 Sonata monoblocks refreshed and upgraded
    Polk SDA 1C's modded / 1000Va Dreadnaught
    Wireworld Silver Eclipse IC's and speaker cables
    Harman Kardon T65C w/Grado Gold. (Don't laugh. It sounds great!)

    There is about a 5% genetic difference between apes and men …but that difference is the difference between throwing your own poo when you are annoyed …and Einstein, Shakespeare and Miss January. by Dr. Sardonicus
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  • rooftop59
    rooftop59 Posts: 8,121
    audioluvr wrote: »
    I had the 851N. Streaming Tidal off my phone, to me, sounded bloated but using my laptop and a USB cable (which has a very good sound card) sounded much more natural, like a CD would. Now I just run a Gustard DAC and whether I use my phone (Bluetooth) or laptop (USB) they both sound fantastic. Navigation is better via laptop though.

    Do you mean controlling tidal through your phone, as in tidal connect, or were you casting tidal? Big difference, and using connect or the magic stream app should sound much better…
    Living Room 2.2: Usher BE-718 "tiny dancers"; Dual DIY Dayton audio RSS210HF-4 Subs with Dayton SPA-250 amps; Arcam SA30; Musical Fidelity A308; Sony UBP-x1000es
    Game Room 5.1.4:     Denon AVR-X4200w; Sony UBP-x700; Definitive Technology Power Monitor 900 mains, CLR-3000 center, StudioMonitor 350 surrounds, ProMonitor 800 atmos x4; Sub - Monoprice Monolith 15in THX Ultra
    Bedroom 2.1     Harmon Kardon HK3490; Bluesounds Node N130; Polk RT25i; ACI Titan Subwoofer
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  • audioluvr
    audioluvr Posts: 5,601
    Using Cambridge connect or StreamMagic
    Gustard X26 Pro DAC
    Belles 21A Pre modded with Mundorf Supreme caps
    B&K M200 Sonata monoblocks refreshed and upgraded
    Polk SDA 1C's modded / 1000Va Dreadnaught
    Wireworld Silver Eclipse IC's and speaker cables
    Harman Kardon T65C w/Grado Gold. (Don't laugh. It sounds great!)

    There is about a 5% genetic difference between apes and men …but that difference is the difference between throwing your own poo when you are annoyed …and Einstein, Shakespeare and Miss January. by Dr. Sardonicus
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  • audioluvr
    audioluvr Posts: 5,601
    I never used the Bluetooth feature on the 851
    Gustard X26 Pro DAC
    Belles 21A Pre modded with Mundorf Supreme caps
    B&K M200 Sonata monoblocks refreshed and upgraded
    Polk SDA 1C's modded / 1000Va Dreadnaught
    Wireworld Silver Eclipse IC's and speaker cables
    Harman Kardon T65C w/Grado Gold. (Don't laugh. It sounds great!)

    There is about a 5% genetic difference between apes and men …but that difference is the difference between throwing your own poo when you are annoyed …and Einstein, Shakespeare and Miss January. by Dr. Sardonicus
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  • Clipdat
    Clipdat Posts: 12,949
    edited February 2023
    Etymology

    The name "Bluetooth" was proposed in 1997 by Jim Kardach of Intel, one of the founders of the Bluetooth SIG. The name was inspired by a conversation with Sven Mattisson who related Scandinavian history through tales from Frans G. Bengtsson's The Long Ships, a historical novel about Vikings and the 10th-century Danish king Harald Bluetooth. Upon discovering a picture of the runestone of Harald Bluetooth in the book A History of the Vikings by Gwyn Jones, Jim proposed Bluetooth as the codename for the short-range wireless program which is now called Bluetooth.

    According to Bluetooth's official website:

    Bluetooth was only intended as a placeholder until marketing could come up with something really cool.

    Later, when it came time to select a serious name, Bluetooth was to be replaced with either RadioWire or PAN (Personal Area Networking). PAN was the front runner, but an exhaustive search discovered it already had tens of thousands of hits throughout the internet.

    A full trademark search on RadioWire couldn't be completed in time for launch, making Bluetooth the only choice. The name caught on fast and before it could be changed, it spread throughout the industry, becoming synonymous with short-range wireless technology.

    Bluetooth is the Anglicised version of the Scandinavian Blåtand/Blåtann (or in Old Norse blátǫnn). It was the epithet of King Harald Bluetooth, who united the disparate Danish tribes into a single kingdom; Kardach chose the name to imply that Bluetooth similarly unites communication protocols.
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