L800 owners need some specifics....

heiney9

The sale is going on and I need to decide between the L600 or L800. I currently enjoy SDA 1C's.

My 1C's center to center are a tad over 7' apart and the appropriate distance from the back wall (which is about 8.5").

How far do you have your L800's from the back wall? Is 7' apart enough? I have very little wiggle room and the L800's are almost 2" wider and almost 6" deeper than my 1C's. The depth might be the issue that kills the purchase.

H9

heiney9

If I were to set them up I could still maintain the 8.5" from the back wall. But the setup manual states close to the back wall for best bass. How do they define close?

Emlyn

The manual doesn't define close, but instead is confusing:

"*By decreasing distance “Y” you will increase bass response.
By increasing that distance you will experience less bass. Your
speakers will generally sound best when placed close to the
back wall. Also, the front baffles should be at least 2” forward
of any obstructions, such as cabinets."

The L800s really are conventional bass units like a regular stereo speaker with an SDA function up top. They don't need bass reinforcement like the big old SDA speakers did. Like any other conventional speaker they'll produce more bass if they're in the corners of a room or close to any other room boundary. In my case I use them with a couple subwoofers so can have them three feet away from the front wall. They also work well with the subwoofers switched off but the bass is more pronounced if they're about two feet from the front wall. Although I could bring mine four feet away from the front wall they seem to sound best to my ears in a 20 x 20 foot room about three feet away from the front wall.

Space to the front wall has to be suited to the room and overall system though. There isn't one right answer. If an owner wants to put them inches away from the front wall and thinks they sound good that way all's good. I don't think they sound good like that myself. The distance is a user selectable one. I think that's where the manual is confusing to people who've owned the older versions for so long.

Emlyn

FWIW, I've never like corner loaded subwoofers for good music reproduction either. Speakers need room to breathe.

heiney9

Thanks for the input. My dilemma is getting these home and not having "enough" room for them to sound good. No way can I pull them 2-3' from the front wall (or as I describe the wall they are on). I can do maybe 10".

My room is small and rectangular one end opens into a hallway and the dinning room. The other wall would have the sda about 4' from the side wall.

If the only way these sound their best is 2'+ into the room, I'll have to get the L600's

I guess my confusion with your response is they act like regular bass modules so they can be close to the front wall, but then you say they are best 2-3' from the front wall.

I really need to be sure these will work in my smallish room or $3K is basically wasted. If they had made a smaller SDA, I'd opt for those.

H9

P.s I just reread your post, I see you have them that far out in the room because you use subs....got it

Emlyn

Right. If I had the L800s in another room where my two channel gear is the rear of the speakers would need to be about 1.5 feet from the front wall so the front battles would clear the audio rack between them. I've never tried them there but I suspect they'd sound great.

heiney9

I have a low horizontal 2 shelf table (39" L and 14" H) so I don't need to flush the front baffles to the rack as nothing interferes with the mids up since the rack/table is so low.

But since the L800's are much deeper than the 1C's, they would be flush or a couple inches passed the front edge of the table/rack.

heiney9

The L800's would still be about 7' apart center to center, about 10" from the front wall (I could reduce to about 3-4") except the left speaker sits right in front of one of the HVAC vents, so I don't want to crowd that too much. The farther out in the room the better.

The left speaker has about 6.5" from a side wall There is an opening archway to get to a hallway along the front wall. The right speaker is just over 4' from a side wall. Left is then open into the dining room. On the left there is a 3' bump out on both sides of the archway to the dining room.

My seating position is about 6.5' from the front edge of the speaker.

These should work, but I will be very disappointed if I end up with too much speaker for my setting. That's why I am agonizing over the L600 or L800. I will be purchasing one or the other before the weekend is over.

I love my SDA....but no point in purchasing if they aren't going to sound the best of their capabilities because of room/placement limitations.

H9

nooshinjohn

As much as I love my L 800s, in your space I’m inclined to go with the L 600 instead. The L800 need room to breath and the side wall to the left being so close will present a problem.

Can you post some pictures of the space? Also keep in mind that it will be a couple hundred hours before you really get the sound you want out of them

heiney9

nooshinjohn wrote: »

As much as I love my L 800s, in your space I’m inclined to go with the L 600 instead. The L800 need room to breath and the side wall to the left being so close will present a problem.

Can you post some pictures of the space? Also keep in mind that it will be a couple hundred hours before you really get the sound you want out of them

Just heading out for a bit, will get some more info up.

My instincts say L600...........my heart says L800.....

H9

nooshinjohn

My room is a mess so forgive it for being not the best pictures buT I thought seeing how mine are set up might be helpful...






The sweet spot is 9 feet from the front plane of the soundstage with 4 feet to the wall behind.

Mike Reeter

nooshinjohn wrote: »

My room is a mess so forgive it for being not the best pictures buT I thought seeing how mine are set up might be helpful...






The sweet spot is 9 feet from the front plane of the soundstage with 4 feet to the wall behind.

Looks like an optimum set-up John, if I had that much width I would pop on the L800's.

msg

Keep it in your pants, Reeter!

vmaxer

Beautiful setup

JayCee

Just saw this thread after posting in the sale thread. Lot's of good opinions/experience to help w/your decision.

One thought on John's setup, and I'm sure it sounds great, I've found that, even with equipment racks that sit behind the front plane of SDA's, they sound even better with nothing or, at least, an open equipment rack. Not a criticism of his, looks great, but another consideration w/respect to dynamics that might work to your benefit and have helped me eek out better sound.

msg

I also noticed issues with the L800s when I had them close to my cabinet or even another set of speakers inboard and subs outboard.

Once I freed up about 1.5ft on each side, upper and lower congestion cleaned up, bass and SDA came in. It was weird, it wasn't working properly when I had stuff around them, regardless of clearing the front baffles.

I was running dual systems previously, and had been planning to implement HT Bypass to consolidate. This sort of forced it, and my front sound stage is minimal now.

heiney9

Need to make a decision today L800 or L600. For my room I'm leaning slightly to the L600, but if I really miss the SDA I am going to be disappointed.

Since my room is so small, how are the L800's at low to moderate volume?

I will keep my SDA 1C's, but in reality I will probably never swap them in/out because of the hassle. So in the end if the L600's don't float my boat I'll still have my 1C's and I'll have to wait until the next sale on L800's

Of other concern is down the road I'll be purchasing a new Pass amp, not sure how it will play with the L800's as many are NOT common ground. The one I'm thinking of purchasing Pass XA-25 should play nicely with the L800's. But, if I decide on something else the L800's are limiting my choice or choices.

H9

VR3

Might I suggest buy both. L800 up front, l600 for surrounds or you could run the l600 on their side above your kitchen cabinets for kitchen speakers

I will say based on my experience at Troys, the L800 does need a good bit of space to really shine. We run his 3 or 4 ft from the back wall. They also need side walls, regardless how far away

msg

Brock - seriously, any chance you could order both, plan being to return the ones that don't work? I almost did this on the last promo, adding L200s as a contingency plan in case I needed to return the L800s. In the end, both stayed, the L200s supplanting 703s in a second system.

I would have gone L600s at that time instead of L200s, but for my main space, I need a sub to supplement the bottom end due to sitting in a null. Unavoidable for this space, unfortunately.

Even though I enjoy the L800s, I do still wonder about the L600. Pretty sure now I'd miss the SDA, though, even though it's a nuisance sometimes, since it's pretty unforgiving for off-axis lounge listening.

Also, I don't know if anyone else has noticed this, but I've found that the sound projects almost on an arc sometimes, like 3-4ft to the sides and front of the speakers. It's a really sweet experience.

The imaging was also unnervingly diffuse at first. Took me a while to get used to that.

heiney9

While ordering both would be the ideal scenario, that just won't work for me. Both within the time constraints and space. All (3) speakers including my 1C's are large, bulky and heavy to be moving around constantly.

I currently don't have the option of a dedicated 2 ch space. The GF won't go for having the living room torn up for a couple months while I evaluate speakers (especially during Christmas).

My one and only critique of SDA's is you need to be in the exact sweet-spot for the full experience. But man, when you are it's a massive soundstage. I have had several visitors remark about where the other speakers are hidden in the room.

I guess I am most afraid of loosing that massive soundstage, but as you mention the sound is more diffuse. To me the SDA is much closer to how we really hear sound, so diffuse isn't necessarily negative in the sense of SDA presentation.

I guess the positive thing is in keeping the SDA 1C's, if the L600's just don't do it for me, then I can resell and go back to the 1C's. At times I feel the 1C's are too big for the room. But I recently was listening to the SDA's at a very loud level w/o any fatigue and my ears were literally ringing when the listening session was over.

It wasn't until then did I realize how loud and full a sound emanates from the SDA's. Literally louder than I could stand, but w/o any listener fatigue. I just sat there for 5-7 minutes after the listening session and was thinking WOW letting my ears adjust.

But I was home alone and in the sweet spot. Poor kitty didn't care for it so loud and it's a trip watching the cat react to SDA sounds. A sound would emanate way off to the right and she'd jerk her head and look in that direction. She did that the whole listening session trying to figure out where the sounds were coming from. Her ears twitching because of the volume level.

It's been about 12-13 years since I've had conventional speakers in the main rig (LSi9's), before that I owned RTA-11T's since new for about 15+ years.

H9

P.s. and that's with an amp rated at 30wpc.....The Aleph is more than capable.

Milito

I have L600's and like them a lot and they fill my space well. I haven't heard properly set up L800's so I'm afraid I'm not much help as far as a comparison.

nooshinjohn

Go for the L800 then… place them exactly as you have the 1c’s, then after about 150 hours of break-in, adjust them as needed. You should be fine. Also, disconnecting the SDA cable on the L800 gives you a very good conventional speaker that will at the very least sound stellar.

heiney9

I have no doubt of the merits and excellence of the L600's. My dilemma is losing SDA.

H9

msg

heiney9 wrote: »

While ordering both would be the ideal scenario, that just won't work for me. Both within the time constraints and space. All (3) speakers including my 1C's are large, bulky and heavy to be moving around constantly.

I currently don't have the option of a dedicated 2 ch space. The GF won't go for having the living room torn up for a couple months while I evaluate speakers (especially during Christmas).

My one and only critique of SDA's is you need to be in the exact sweet-spot for the full experience. But man, when you are it's a massive soundstage. I have had several visitors remark about where the other speakers are hidden in the room.

I guess I am most afraid of loosing that massive soundstage, but as you mention the sound is more diffuse. To me the SDA is much closer to how we really hear sound, so diffuse isn't necessarily negative in the sense of SDA presentation.

I guess the positive thing is in keeping the SDA 1C's, if the L600's just don't do it for me, then I can resell and go back to the 1C's. At times I feel the 1C's are too big for the room. But I recently was listening to the SDA's at a very loud level w/o any fatigue and my ears were literally ringing when the listening session was over.

It wasn't until then did I realize how loud and full a sound emanates from the SDA's. Literally louder than I could stand, but w/o any listener fatigue. I just sat there for 5-7 minutes after the listening session and was thinking WOW letting my ears adjust.

It's funny you mention this - @Emlyn mentioned to me that you sometimes don't realize how loud you're listening with SDAs because it doesn't sound uncomfortably loud and the diffusion. This was actually issued as a bit of a hearing-preservation warning in a sense, and it's true. Once I picked up an SPL meter, I learned that my comfortable listening range is 75-80dB with peaks of 85dB and a little above. If I go too loud, I find the music tends to sort of flatten out in a sense.

Understand on the space and time required to audition two pair new speakers, not to mention the hassle. I took nearly the whole 60 days to decide, and even at the end I still wasn't sure. Glad I kept the L800s now, but there were times I bounced back and forth between feeling sure they were staying, sure they were going, then sure they were staying. It was maddening at times. Pretty stupid if you think about it, getting agitated/frustrated about stuff like this - "It's just a stereo.", except it isn't lol

Milito wrote: »

I have L600's and like them a lot and they fill my space well. I haven't heard properly set up L800's so I'm afraid I'm not much help as far as a comparison.

I was hoping you'd pipe in on the L600s!

nooshinjohn wrote: »

Also, disconnecting the SDA cable on the L800 gives you a very good conventional speaker that will at the very least sound stellar.

Yeah, John, good point - I've tried this as well when I wanted to lounge listen. It actually works pretty well. Not like you're critical listening at that point anyway.

TroyD

As has been alluded to, I have found that getting them pulled out 40” has done wonders.....Sure, maybe sacrificing a little low end impact bug the improvement in image specificity and soundstage depth has been a revelation......and I think they do need space but I think you can achieve very good results in a small room. When I had 2.3tl’s in the small room, they worked really well and see no reason L800’s wouldn’t either.

Bottom line for me is if I got the L600’s....I’d always wonder what the L800’s would have sounded like

treitz3

That's the one thing that would drive me knuckin' futz!

Tom

heiney9

TroyD wrote: »

Bottom line for me is if I got the L600’s....I’d always wonder what the L800’s would have sounded like

That's exactly my dilemma.

No way I could do 40" into the room. The plan is to move into a larger house. But that depends on the economy at this point. Now is not a good time to move, IMO. Idea being to get something larger where a dedicated listening room can be set-up.

Then that guy on my shoulder creeps in and asks, "Do I really need new speakers". I have zero reasons to replace the modded 1C's. Except I am so impressed with the R200's, I now wonder what I am missing by not getting a new set of Legend Speakers.

The R200's are several steps better than my 5B's...........so it stands to reason that the Legend is going to be several steps better than the 1C's.

H9

VR3

I move my speakers out every time I listen, just have to find a system but it takes me a few minutes to have my room converted from family room to listening space

JayCee

heiney9 wrote: »

Of other concern is down the road I'll be purchasing a new Pass amp, not sure how it will play with the L800's as many are NOT common ground. The one I'm thinking of purchasing Pass XA-25 should play nicely with the L800's. But, if I decide on something else the L800's are limiting my choice or choices.

H9

Currently running the 800's w/a modded Parasound HCA-1500A.

Your Pass addiction is a big consideration. I have the same problem b/c my BHK gear poses the same issue. Not a deal breaker for me as I have 3 listening areas. My uber modded 1.2tl's are used w/the BHK's for primary/2 channel and I, after much soul-searching, decided the 800's would be in the secondary system as the foundation of my home theater. Unfortunately, I have multiple floors and haven't found the time to lug up and test the 800's w/the BHK's to see how they sound. Like you, my gear choice was/is more important ATM than the speakers. TBH, it sucks that I can't audition them on my best gear. But, I knew that at time of purchase.

Also, I have a pair of Genesis Gen II's (stored) that will be in play sometime in the future, so there will be another point at which I'll have to shuffle my gear.

You've consistently professed your love/desire to move up in the Pass gear...so, after considering your historical posts and what I quoted above, I'd say that's the biggest LIMFAC for you. Should you decide to get the 800's...the final question should be, going forward, which is more important, Pass or 800's?

Edit to add...for reference, in the 800's current location, I've had CRS+ 4.1tl's, 1C's, 3.1tl's (all uber modded and in that order) w/the 3.1's replaced by the 800's.

msg

Buy for now, maybe, planning for the future?
The gamble on holding off is missing a promo opportunity, and/or availability of the speakers. Who knows what the future holds; no guarantees.

If they were truly awful, could use the L800s without the cable for now, like John said.

Going... going... aww man, only rights left in stock...

TroyD

Let me add....In terms of moving the L800’s out from the wall....I don’t know if SDA is the deciding factor, ie the trade offs could possibly be the same with the L600. Now, closer to the wall.....I sacrifice soundstage depth and some image specificity but it’s not like it becomes unlistenable.....