Polk L800 speakers - SPL below 100 Hz dropped about 6db.
Comments
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So, this is really interesting.
It's not the absolute level that matters sonically -- it's the level relative to the midrange output.
The Polk exhibits a flat response in the region of 60 to 200 Hz. The Focal shows a bump in LF response (relative to the midrange) of about 15 dB at a little over 100 Hz relative to 1kHz (ca. 12 dB relative to 400 Hz). This looks like the classic, underdamped "boom box" alignment, much beloved in cheap car stereo. This is a recipe for loose, one-note midbass -- which is not bass reproduction.
Both loudspeakers display substantial rolloff starting at about 60 Hz.
The quality of LF reproduction, based on this comparison, should be audibly much more accurate from the Polk relative to the Focal.
Both loudspeakers show that suckout, too, although it is more pronounced in the Polk. Oddly it's now at 450 Hz (which would play havoc with vocals). When we first met it, it was ca. 100 Hz. Why is this?
This whole thread illustrates the pitfalls of testing loudspeakers, especially bass reproduction, in a reverberant environment. The OP might want to lug an L800 outside and test in that quasi-anechoic environment, or acquire a Klippel loudspeaker analysis system.
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mhardy6647 wrote: »[img]https://us.v- Both loudspeakers show that suckout, too, although it is more pronounced in the Polk. Oddly it's now at 450 Hz (which would play havoc with vocals). When we first met it, it was ca. 100 Hz. Why is this?[/img]
Since this is nearfield measurements only 2cm from the cone of the woofers, it is severely off axis for the midrange speakers. I don't think this graph should even be looked at above the crossover points of the woofers.
We saw in his nearfield measurements of the Polk where he did all 4 woofers (2L and 2R) that the ones nearer the midwoofs didn't have that suck out you speak of. It isn't clear which woofs he is showing in the above tests. I "think" it may be the top woof of the Focal compared with the bottom woof of the Polks.
I see now that caffeine has kicked in that the ports are on the front of Focal and we know they are on the bottom of Polks. This may effect things for comparing the two nearfield.
George / NJ
Polk 7B main speakers, std. mods+ (1979, orig owner)
Martin Logan Dynamo sub w/6ft 14awg Power Cord
Onkyo A-8017 integrated
Logitech Squeezebox Touch Streamer w/EDO applet
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iFi Mercury 0.5m OFHC continuous cast copper USB cable
Custom Ribbon Speaker Cables, 5ft long, 4N Copper, 14awg, ultra low inductance
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Good points. If we're really basically looking at woofer response, the Polk looks much better (much flatter).
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Another difference between the 2 speakers is that I believe the Focal has 3 woofers and the Polks have 2. Focal is crossed over at 260 Hz and Polk is at 370 Hz. Getting back to his nearfield test of all 4 Polk woofers, how can we explain this suckout when crossover is at 370? Which woofer is it that has the suckout, is it the upper or lower? Are the woofers paralleled with each other in the schematic or is this indication of some crossover component damage that occurred in both speakers (amazingly
Below is nearfield measurement of four woofers:
PS: What I believe is missing here is that the ports need to be measured in the nearfield as well to get some sort of composite bass response that is more true or accurate.
Post edited by Gardenstater onGeorge / NJ
Polk 7B main speakers, std. mods+ (1979, orig owner)
Martin Logan Dynamo sub w/6ft 14awg Power Cord
Onkyo A-8017 integrated
Logitech Squeezebox Touch Streamer w/EDO applet
iFi nano iDSD DAC
iPurifier3
iDefender w/ iPower PS
Custom Steve Wilson 1m UPOCC Interconnect
iFi Mercury 0.5m OFHC continuous cast copper USB cable
Custom Ribbon Speaker Cables, 5ft long, 4N Copper, 14awg, ultra low inductance
Custom Vibration Isolation Speaker Stands and Sub Platform -
I think a better way to test to see if a speaker drops volume when it gets warmed up or hot is to just sit in the regular listening spot with an SPL meter for a while and listen to some tunes on repeat. Maybe have a beer or two.
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mhardy6647 wrote: »Good points. If we're really basically looking at woofer response, the Polk looks much better (much flatter).
I'm seeing about 5dB variance on the Focal, from the peak to the crossover point of 260 Hz. On the Polk I see about 10dB between peak and the crossover point of 370 Hz.
That could very well be because something is damaged in the Polk crossover however.George / NJ
Polk 7B main speakers, std. mods+ (1979, orig owner)
Martin Logan Dynamo sub w/6ft 14awg Power Cord
Onkyo A-8017 integrated
Logitech Squeezebox Touch Streamer w/EDO applet
iFi nano iDSD DAC
iPurifier3
iDefender w/ iPower PS
Custom Steve Wilson 1m UPOCC Interconnect
iFi Mercury 0.5m OFHC continuous cast copper USB cable
Custom Ribbon Speaker Cables, 5ft long, 4N Copper, 14awg, ultra low inductance
Custom Vibration Isolation Speaker Stands and Sub Platform -
Gardenstater wrote: »Let's see the test results with the Focal speakers and same inputs 😉
Thanks, just tested Focal for you. The microphone is about 2cm from the woofer of Focal 936. just like how I test Polk L800.
You can see the bass response of Focal 936 is much better, that is just a 6.5 inch woofer.
Those Focals have a terribly bloated bass response!
Edit: Just noticed @Clipdat already mentioned that.
Gustard X26 Pro DAC
Belles 21A Pre modded with Mundorf Supreme caps
B&K M200 Sonata monoblocks refreshed and upgraded
Polk SDA 1C's modded / 1000Va Dreadnaught
Wireworld Silver Eclipse IC's and speaker cables
Harman Kardon T65C w/Grado Gold. (Don't laugh. It sounds great!)
There is about a 5% genetic difference between apes and men …but that difference is the difference between throwing your own poo when you are annoyed …and Einstein, Shakespeare and Miss January. by Dr. Sardonicus -
Nearfield measurements are very revealing, as done by Stereophile's John Atkinson for the Focal 936. Note he did each of the 3 woofers and the front port and bottom port. Does the middle woofer look all that different from the OP's measurement? I'll be looking for the same measurements for the L800 and post them if I can find it. Also, the reviewer didn't find the bass to be bloated but did feel it had nice extension. The calculated summation (not shown), which can always be flawed for technical reasons, did show a bit of bloat perhaps. Does it seem like the OP's equipment is flawed I guess is one of the questions?
George / NJ
Polk 7B main speakers, std. mods+ (1979, orig owner)
Martin Logan Dynamo sub w/6ft 14awg Power Cord
Onkyo A-8017 integrated
Logitech Squeezebox Touch Streamer w/EDO applet
iFi nano iDSD DAC
iPurifier3
iDefender w/ iPower PS
Custom Steve Wilson 1m UPOCC Interconnect
iFi Mercury 0.5m OFHC continuous cast copper USB cable
Custom Ribbon Speaker Cables, 5ft long, 4N Copper, 14awg, ultra low inductance
Custom Vibration Isolation Speaker Stands and Sub Platform -
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^ Dang it…..
I was hoping this was a notice that the OP was reporting back that the issue was found. -
Hopefully he doesn't leave us hanging, but would not be surprised if we never hear from him again.
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Bullies
😜 -
2-channel: Modwright KWI-200 Integrated, Dynaudio C1-II Signatures
Desktop rig: LSi7, Polk 110sub, Dayens Ampino amp, W4S DAC/pre, Sonos, JRiver
Gear on standby: Melody 101 tube pre, Unison Research Simply Italy Integrated
Gone to new homes: (Matt Polk's)Threshold Stasis SA12e monoblocks, Pass XA30.5 amp, Usher MD2 speakers, Dynaudio C4 platinum speakers, Modwright LS100 (voltz), Simaudio 780D DAC
erat interfectorem cesar et **** dictatorem dicere a -
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Hey guys what's going on in this dead L800 measurements thread?
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I think he ran out of stuff to measure and went back to his crack pipe...The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD
“When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson -
Ah, yeah, that'll entice him to share the findings.I disabled signatures.
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Hey if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen!
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At least he wasn't whining about his 15TL's. lol--Gary--
Onkyo Integra M504, Bottlehead Foreplay III, Denon SACD, Thiel CS2.3, NHT VT-2, VT-3 and Evolution T6, Infinity RSIIIa, SDA1C and a few dozen other speakers around the house I change in and out. -
Chased him away you hosers. nicely done.
I can't decide if I'm being sarcastic or not.I disabled signatures. -
50 bucks to your favorite charity that he was never coming back in the first place...The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD
“When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson -
Hi Everyone, I fixed this issue on 7th of November 2022 by myself.
I bought a new Umik-1 microphone, it turns out my old Umik-1 microphone was not working properly sometimes, completely unpredictable.
Thanks very much for all the help.
Post edited by Jarod888 on -
My old UMIK-1 microphone sometimes work properly sometimes not, that's why the test results keep changing.
miniDSP support denied it's a microphone issue, however I proved that it was the microphone by buying a new UMIK-1 microphone and compare it with the old one.
Very disappointed with miniDSP support and microphone build quality. -
mhardy6647 wrote: »
So, this is really interesting.
It's not the absolute level that matters sonically -- it's the level relative to the midrange output.
The Polk exhibits a flat response in the region of 60 to 200 Hz. The Focal shows a bump in LF response (relative to the midrange) of about 15 dB at a little over 100 Hz relative to 1kHz (ca. 12 dB relative to 400 Hz). This looks like the classic, underdamped "boom box" alignment, much beloved in cheap car stereo. This is a recipe for loose, one-note midbass -- which is not bass reproduction.
Both loudspeakers display substantial rolloff starting at about 60 Hz.
The quality of LF reproduction, based on this comparison, should be audibly much more accurate from the Polk relative to the Focal.
Both loudspeakers show that suckout, too, although it is more pronounced in the Polk. Oddly it's now at 450 Hz (which would play havoc with vocals). When we first met it, it was ca. 100 Hz. Why is this?
This whole thread illustrates the pitfalls of testing loudspeakers, especially bass reproduction, in a reverberant environment. The OP might want to lug an L800 outside and test in that quasi-anechoic environment, or acquire a Klippel loudspeaker analysis system.
Thanks, the microphone used for testing was not working properly sometimes.
I've bought a new microphone. here is the test result of left speaker, please note it's not a nearfield test.
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Rotflmao!
Try just using your ears skeeter! -
Rotflmao!
Try just using your ears skeeter!
Sometimes the bass sounds weaker, maybe it's my ears. -
So. Any idea why you experienced a sudden loss of bass (audibly) while in the middle of them playing? Was that just imagination?
Glad you are getting good bass now and that you got back to us.George / NJ
Polk 7B main speakers, std. mods+ (1979, orig owner)
Martin Logan Dynamo sub w/6ft 14awg Power Cord
Onkyo A-8017 integrated
Logitech Squeezebox Touch Streamer w/EDO applet
iFi nano iDSD DAC
iPurifier3
iDefender w/ iPower PS
Custom Steve Wilson 1m UPOCC Interconnect
iFi Mercury 0.5m OFHC continuous cast copper USB cable
Custom Ribbon Speaker Cables, 5ft long, 4N Copper, 14awg, ultra low inductance
Custom Vibration Isolation Speaker Stands and Sub Platform -
Get you a nice sub or 2. You are going to end up trying to push those speakers and blow something.2-channel: Modwright KWI-200 Integrated, Dynaudio C1-II Signatures
Desktop rig: LSi7, Polk 110sub, Dayens Ampino amp, W4S DAC/pre, Sonos, JRiver
Gear on standby: Melody 101 tube pre, Unison Research Simply Italy Integrated
Gone to new homes: (Matt Polk's)Threshold Stasis SA12e monoblocks, Pass XA30.5 amp, Usher MD2 speakers, Dynaudio C4 platinum speakers, Modwright LS100 (voltz), Simaudio 780D DAC
erat interfectorem cesar et **** dictatorem dicere a -
Gardenstater wrote: »So. Any idea why you experienced a sudden loss of bass (audibly) while in the middle of them playing? Was that just imagination?
Glad you are getting good bass now and that you got back to us.
It could be I moved, or the song, or imagination, or all together.
Most likely I moved a little bit, and then tested the speaker and the microphone didn't work properly, coincidence
Since the test reslut showed the weak bass, then I started feeling the bass was not right. -
