MoFi Comes Clean

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Rowland Model 8
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Innersound Phono Preamp
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Nottingham Mentor with Origin Live Enterprise Mk 2 and Ortofon Vienna
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Comments

  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 47,258
    That's going to upset a lot of folks.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk

  • Nightfall
    Nightfall Posts: 9,861
    Deja vu
    afterburnt wrote: »
    They didn't speak a word of English, they were from South Carolina.

    Village Idiot of Club Polk
  • Emlyn
    Emlyn Posts: 3,551
    All over again.

    :)
  • SIHAB
    SIHAB Posts: 3,027
    It ain't over till it's over.
    Speakers: Polk Lsim, ATC SCM19 v2, NHT Superzero
    Speaker Cables: Transparent, Wireworld, Canare, Monster


  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 30,095
    No matter where you go, there you are.
  • jbreezy5
    jbreezy5 Posts: 589
    What a conundrum.
  • Emlyn
    Emlyn Posts: 3,551
    edited August 6
    The story was even picked up by the major newspapers yesterday.

    My main takeaway from this was I hadn't been paying attention that MoFi had been charging $100 plus for a piece of vinyl. I did know people were buying multiple copies of the "Original Master Recordings" in hopes of turning a profit later. Classic bubble market. There is also zero reason for these reissues of old back catalog recordings to be "Limited Edition" other than out of pure greed.

    Maybe people should wise up and just pay the $30 for the SACD version. They do use the same source after all! LOL
  • msg
    msg Posts: 7,026
    edited August 6
    disregard, kind sirs
    Post edited by msg on
    I disabled signatures.
  • SIHAB
    SIHAB Posts: 3,027
    MOFI are liars. That is the main thing.
    They lied for profit.
    Speakers: Polk Lsim, ATC SCM19 v2, NHT Superzero
    Speaker Cables: Transparent, Wireworld, Canare, Monster


  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 24,343
    Very deceptive marketing that should be punished in some way, ie; boycotts, industry reprimand, true journalistic expose, etc.

    In the end they were no doubt lying about the sources/processes of their catalog, but it seems they still made excellent quality recordings/remasters that were still superior to the originals that many people liked. So, the process has *some* merit, but it's hard to come back from deception like this.

    If they were honest in the beginning and let the end product speak for their process, I doubt they would have lost too many customers. Sure, hard core analog junkies who refuse to acknowledge that it is possible with current technology to incorporate some digital in the chain and still have it sound fantastic, might have gone elsewhere for recordings.

    But now, I can't help but think their damaged reputation is going make sales take a nose dive.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Plus DAC | MIT Shotgun S3 | MIT Z P/C's | updated SDA 1C| SQ Box Touch/Welbourne Labs P/S- Tubes add soul!
  • Emlyn
    Emlyn Posts: 3,551
    Definitely would have been better if MoFi had clearly said they were using 4X DSD in their process from the time when they started doing so and explained they were doing so because it helped produce a cleaner sounding product. It is really not something that needs to be obscured because DSD is great technology for audio reproduction.
  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 47,258
    Emlyn wrote: »
    The story was even picked up by the major newspapers yesterday.

    My main takeaway from this was I hadn't been paying attention that MoFi had been charging $100 plus for a piece of vinyl. I did know people were buying multiple copies of the "Original Master Recordings" in hopes of turning a profit later. Classic bubble market. There is also zero reason for these reissues of old back catalog recordings to be "Limited Edition" other than out of pure greed.

    Maybe people should wise up and just pay the $30 for the SACD version. They do use the same source after all! LOL

    To be fair it's only the MoFi One Step reissues that run $100+. Everything from the actual record to the packaging are impressive. The standard MoFi reissues are less money.

    The reason all are a limited edition is due to licensing agreements, not pure greed.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk

  • erniejade
    erniejade Posts: 5,936
    To me, if it sounds better vs the oroginal, I don't care what processing digital or analog they use. Not all but in general, I have found mofi versions to sounds better. Same when Audio Fidelity was making sacds and gold disks. They just sounded better.

    I find it hard to believe folks would believe they can take a 30-50 year old recording and not manipulate it in the digital realm and then convert it back to analog. It's how many have done it for years to make it on vinyl or remaster it to vinyl.
    Musical Fidelity Tri-Vista 300, T+A PA 1530R,Wireworld Silver Eclipse 8 SC, Tyler Highland H2, Audioquest Thunderbird Interconnect , Innuos Zen MK3 W4S recovery, WireWorld Platinum Starlight 7 USB, Border Patrol SE-I

    Have but haven't used in a while: Cayin SCD50T, Technics 1200, Denon DL160.
  • engie490
    engie490 Posts: 232
    edited August 6
    I agree with many here...I don't care if they used a can on a string somewhere in the process as long as the album sounds better.

    They could have gotten out in front of this when they first transitioned by bringing in all of the golden ear journalists and have them blindly pick between the old version and the new one.

    But they opted to bury the new process because one long-standing element of audiophile doctrine is that vinyl must be pure analog from master tape to what goes in the sleeve. And they were afraid of the folks who would never actually listen, but would flee based on a single fact.

    I don't condone their subterfuge, but I understand why they did it.
    KEF Reference 205s
    Rowland Model 8
    Ayre K-5XEmp
    Innersound Phono Preamp
    Oppo BDP-105 (using as a DAC)
    Nottingham Mentor with Origin Live Enterprise Mk 2 and Ortofon Vienna
  • Dennis Gardner
    Dennis Gardner Posts: 4,859
    I find it amusing that Michael Fremer is butthurt that he wasn't the one to scoop the news. It makes him look more foolish for each time that he claimed to hear that analog difference in his reviews.
    HT Optoma HD25 LV on 80" DIY Screen, Anthem MRX 300 Receiver, Pioneer Elite BDP 51FD Polk CS350LS, Polk SDA1C, Polk FX300, Polk RT55, Dual EBS Adire Shiva 320watt tuned to 17hz, ICs-DIY Twisted Prs, Speaker-Raymond Cable

    2 Channel Thorens TD 318 Grado ZF1, SACD/CD Marantz 8260, Soundstream/Krell DAC1, Audio Mirror PP1, Odyssey Stratos, ADS L-1290, ICs-DIY Twisted , Speaker-Raymond Cable
  • jbreezy5
    jbreezy5 Posts: 589
    The issue isn’t whether what was sold sounds good or not, but rather that bait-and-switch tactics were used to charge a premium.

    Mofi’s customer’s trust was betrayed.

    Being that Mofi makes great sounding vinyl (based on most opinions I’ve read anywhere), they should have simply been truthful in their advertising.

    Now many may reasonably doubt anything they claim regarding their processes in the development of their media.

    What if going forward one concludes to try their media on word-of-mouth of good sound, buys it at a premium, and later discovers the vinyl or disc purchased used mp3, not DSD, in the process?

    I have no skin in this game, just looking at it through an empathic lens.
  • TEAforONE
    TEAforONE Posts: 854
    I am of the opinion that this is a very fraudulent business practice. It should lead to a class action lawsuit. I have never heard one of mofi’s records, but sound quality isn’t the question. If I’m selling something,and I’m charging a premium for something that I’m not including, that is a clear case of fraud. They should offer a discount at the very least to past customers. If not a complete refund. If they do nothing, their name is stained forever. ( It probably will be anyway )
    See my profile for list of gear.
  • SIHAB
    SIHAB Posts: 3,027
    The truth has set me free. I've bought zero one-steps and I think three of
    the new mofi LPs. (I had no hope of finding an OG in good enough shape)
    I have nine of their SACDs. I would have gone SACD if
    I had known there was a digital step involved. At $40 dollars a pop for
    "normal" MOFI LPs they have priced themselves out of my league.
    Nearly twice the price for a CD/SACD is bad enough.

    This is kinda the third strike with me and MOFI/Music Direct.


    Speakers: Polk Lsim, ATC SCM19 v2, NHT Superzero
    Speaker Cables: Transparent, Wireworld, Canare, Monster


  • machone
    machone Posts: 1,338
    As an engineer I have been at odds with marketing my entire career.
    Mojo Audio Illuminati v3>>Quantum Byte w/LMS>>Rpi/PiCoreplayer>> Starlight 7 USB >> Mojo Audio Mystique v2 SE>>ModWright SWL 9.0 SE Signature>>Hafler DH-500 Amp+ (Musical Concepts Fully Modded)>>
    SRS 2.3TL (Fully Modded)...Velodyne Optimum 8 subwoofer
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    Marantz SA 8005
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    1. Amplification 2. Analog 3. Digital 4. Video

    "All THAT IS LOST FROM THE SOURCE IS LOST FOREVER"
  • SIHAB
    SIHAB Posts: 3,027
    machone wrote: »
    As an engineer I have been at odds with marketing my entire career.

    Will you go on record lying for your company?

    Speakers: Polk Lsim, ATC SCM19 v2, NHT Superzero
    Speaker Cables: Transparent, Wireworld, Canare, Monster


  • jbreezy5
    jbreezy5 Posts: 589
    The struggle for me is the relationship between Music Direct and Mofi, because I have probably purchased more equipment from Music Direct than any other e-tailer, and my experiences have always been good.

    But I have never purchased a Mofi pressing.
  • machone
    machone Posts: 1,338
    SIHAB wrote: »
    machone wrote: »
    As an engineer I have been at odds with marketing my entire career.

    Will you go on record lying for your company?

    No stretching the truth here.
    Mojo Audio Illuminati v3>>Quantum Byte w/LMS>>Rpi/PiCoreplayer>> Starlight 7 USB >> Mojo Audio Mystique v2 SE>>ModWright SWL 9.0 SE Signature>>Hafler DH-500 Amp+ (Musical Concepts Fully Modded)>>
    SRS 2.3TL (Fully Modded)...Velodyne Optimum 8 subwoofer
    1KVA Dreadnought

    Marantz SA 8005
    Pioneer PLX-1000 Turntable - Shure SC35C/N35X - V15III/VN35HE
    Yamaha TX-540 Tuner...Sony BDP-S570
    Sony PS4

    Separate subpanel with four dedicated 20 amp circuits.
    1. Amplification 2. Analog 3. Digital 4. Video

    "All THAT IS LOST FROM THE SOURCE IS LOST FOREVER"
  • daddyjt
    daddyjt Posts: 1,722
    erniejade wrote: »
    To me, if it sounds better vs the original, I don't care what processing digital or analog they use...

    Unless you are in it for something other than sound, this pretty much sums it up.

    Kinda reminds me of the whole "how many watts is that amp" argument -
    "Conservative Libertarians love the country, progressive leftists love the government." - Andrew Wilkow


    “Human beings are born with different capacities. If they are free, they are not equal. And if they are equal, they are not free.”
    ― Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

  • jbreezy5
    jbreezy5 Posts: 589
    daddyjt wrote: »
    erniejade wrote: »
    To me, if it sounds better vs the original, I don't care what processing digital or analog they use...

    Unless you are in it for something other than sound, this pretty much sums it up.

    Kinda reminds me of the whole "how many watts is that amp" argument -

    ^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^
    Unfortunately, moral relativism does seem to be the pervading ideology in the USA.

    From the perspective of analog purists they were paying a premium for the utmost in sonic fidelity, as advertised, but instead received a compromised product.

    We do a disservice to our fellowman, and ourselves, when we excuse fraudulent behavior.
  • daddyjt
    daddyjt Posts: 1,722
    jbreezy5 wrote: »
    daddyjt wrote: »
    erniejade wrote: »
    To me, if it sounds better vs the original, I don't care what processing digital or analog they use...

    Unless you are in it for something other than sound, this pretty much sums it up.

    Kinda reminds me of the whole "how many watts is that amp" argument -

    ^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^
    Unfortunately, moral relativism does seem to be the pervading ideology in the USA.

    From the perspective of analog purists they were paying a premium for the utmost in sonic fidelity, as advertised, but instead received a compromised product.

    We do a disservice to our fellowman, and ourselves, when we excuse fraudulent behavior.

    So just to be completely clear, you would sacrifice better sound* for a "pure" analog signal?

    *I understand that the phrase "better sound" is subjective, however it is central to this discussion. If you deny that it "sounds better", then why would this discussion even be taking place?
    "Conservative Libertarians love the country, progressive leftists love the government." - Andrew Wilkow


    “Human beings are born with different capacities. If they are free, they are not equal. And if they are equal, they are not free.”
    ― Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

  • jbreezy5
    jbreezy5 Posts: 589
    edited August 7
    @daddyjt

    I disagree with the premise of your question, because it mischaracterizes the issue (people not receiving what they paid for) and my statements.

    If you read my last post carefully, you would realize that you are making a straw man argument as I expressly stated that “utmost sonic fidelity” is what analog purists believed they were paying a premium for; however, from their perspective they received a qualitatively compromised product.

    Your own words also contradict your own argument:

    “*I understand that the phrase "better sound" is subjective…


    There’s no way around it. Much to the chagrin of the post-modernist mind, this is a black-and-white issue. Right and wrong; no middle-ground.

    It’s also quite selfish to reason in a manner that dismisses the fiscal loss of others who have been defrauded, just because it didn’t directly affect oneself.

    To reason otherwise is merely to lie or be self-deceived.
  • K_M
    K_M Posts: 1,612
    Analog purists.........


    Wait, so I was wrong all along??
  • Emlyn
    Emlyn Posts: 3,551
    Imagine the horror if a recording engineer had been using 16 bit depth PCM anywhere in the recording chain 40 years ago. Not that they were; or maybe they were.

    :)
  • daddyjt
    daddyjt Posts: 1,722
    jbreezy5 wrote: »
    @daddyjt

    I disagree with the premise of your question, because it mischaracterizes the issue (people not receiving what they paid for) and my statements.

    If you read my last post carefully, you would realize that you are making a straw man argument as I expressly stated that “utmost sonic fidelity” is what analog purists believed they were paying a premium for; however, from their perspective they received a qualitatively compromised product.

    Your own words also contradict your own argument:

    “*I understand that the phrase "better sound" is subjective…


    There’s no way around it. Much to the chagrin of the post-modernist mind, this is a black-and-white issue. Right and wrong; no middle-ground.

    It’s also quite selfish to reason in a manner that dismisses the fiscal loss of others who have been defrauded, just because it didn’t directly affect oneself.



    To reason otherwise is merely to lie or be self-deceived.

    Perhaps you are correct. I often forget that we all have different goals in this hobby, and (wrongly) assume from time to time that others share the same goals that I do - the best possible sound, everything else be damned. If your goals lie in a different direction, then so be it. I sympathize with your feelings of being defrauded, and only hope that you can receive some remedy that does not bankrupt the company - I rather enjoy their SACD releases, and it would be a shame to lose future releases over this squabble.

    "Conservative Libertarians love the country, progressive leftists love the government." - Andrew Wilkow


    “Human beings are born with different capacities. If they are free, they are not equal. And if they are equal, they are not free.”
    ― Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

  • pitdogg2
    pitdogg2 Posts: 21,051
    edited August 7
    K_M wrote: »
    Analog purists.........


    Wait, so I was wrong all along??
    Yes 🤣🤣🤣
    daddyjt
    I rather enjoy their SACD releases, and it would be a shame to lose future releases over this squabble
    As do I! I hope they keep cranking them out. I've pre+ordered all the VH sacd's for gods sake get them to me!
    😉