Monitor 5B refresh

ChrisD06

shaneybob wrote: »

None really. I could use some more poly fill. Mine only ever came with some above the midwoofer. I’ve put hurricane nuts on everything, a set of semi-rings from xchop, dynamat on MW and PR, rebuilt xovers for TL mod and replaced all the wiring, new binding posts, and spikes on my stands.

Sounds like you've done everything. I wouldn't add more polyfill than stock, just make sure it's shoved up above the passive radiator and you should be good.

I folded mine in half and put it above the crossover.

shaneybob

The problem is that one speaker has twice as much polyfill as the other. I think they just randomly shoved some in there. There is a slight difference in sound between them. I also have a 4x4 square of BH5 on the rear panel directly behind the MW's. Where to get poly fill like the stock stuff? It seems to be in sheets about 3-4" thick and more stiff/fibrous than what I have seen my wife use for pillows and such.

xschop

I can't speak for BH5, but when I add a 6×6x 5/8" square behind mids, I have found that I can remove 1/3 of the Dacron and still have good balance between midrange and bass output.

pitdogg2

Dacron in sheets can be found at most sewing and fabric stores.
Yes it comes in different grades but it's out there.

Sitka

Great job Shaneybob! Down the road you may consider changing out those Mundorf resistors to Mills. Having used both - and both are good - the Mundorfs can get too bright when the music gets loud. The Mills seem better at keeping the highs in balance. For polyfill, the place to go is Walmart.

shaneybob

Alrighty. I have about 10 hrs on them. Can’t say that they’ve changed in any way from “break in”, but they do sound better than before. More clarity and tighter bass is noticeable.

My room is very small at 12.5’ x 13’. Guitar amps, guitars, and speakers line the outside walls pretty much so only the middle is open. I decided this evening to say screw it and pull them out into the room. Right now they are 40” from the side walls, 5’ apart, 3’ from the front wall. I have them toed-in 1” and tilted up 1/4” (1.5 degrees) at 9” off the floor. My listening position is right at 6’ away, which leaves 3.5’ behind me. I tried cross firing them in front of me, right behind me, straight to my ears, and straight ahead. So far this position is best. I also tried tilting them up 3 degrees, but that’s too high and it sounds better standing behind my chair than in it. The 1/4” is better than flat. Had my wife listen as I moved things around as her ears aren’t as f$&%ed up as mine. She agrees with the current positioning. Sounds best with time controls bypassed as well, which is an improvement from pre-refresh, where they needed added treble and bass. My line arrays are behind the 5B’s and to the outside. I don’t know to what extent they may be affecting the Polks, but I may put a shorting plug in the arrays as I’ve read that can help in these situations. I know the arrays are where they need to be.

shaneybob

Here's how it currently looks. The drawing makes it look more spacious than in actually feels.

bcwsrt

Been wondering how these have settled in for you?

shaneybob

bcwsrt wrote: »

Been wondering how these have settled in for you?

I have several 100 hours on them now. Because my room is so small I’m listening nearfield with them about 6.5’ apart and 4.4’ in front of me and toed in pointing at my ears. 5’ or so from the front wall. That was the absolute best I have tried so far (a dozen different placements).

They sound better than they did. The tweeter upgrade was worth it for sure as far as smoothness goes. I don’t know how much difference the BH5, steel rings, or expensive caps actually make with these. All in all, they are better. $450 better? Honestly, I’ve heard better $500 speakers than these. If it wasn’t for the nostalgia value, since I bought these new back in the mid 80’s, I’d call it too much money spent. I’d recommend a crossover update with new caps that doesn’t cost much and the drop-in RD0194 and call it a day.

bcwsrt

Fair enough! Since you are evidently a musician, your comments carry some weight. Was hoping you'd be a little more upbeat on them, but I appreciate your bluntness. 5's have always intrigued me for a couple smaller spaces I have.

xschop

shaneybob wrote: »

bcwsrt wrote: »

Been wondering how these have settled in for you?

I have several 100 hours on them now. Because my room is so small I’m listening nearfield with them about 6.5’ apart and 4.4’ in front of me and toed in pointing at my ears. 5’ or so from the front wall. That was the absolute best I have tried so far (a dozen different placements).

They sound better than they did. The tweeter upgrade was worth it for sure as far as smoothness goes. I don’t know how much difference the BH5, steel rings, or expensive caps actually make with these. All in all, they are better. $450 better? Honestly, I’ve heard better $500 speakers than these. If it wasn’t for the nostalgia value, since I bought these new back in the mid 80’s, I’d call it too much money spent. I’d recommend a crossover update with new caps that doesn’t cost much and the drop-in RD0194 and call it a day.

After all the Uber mods done to my 5Bs, it is very hard to distinguish between a few different brand caps.

plastic_avatar

You've got them on stands?

[looks at your previous post]

9 inches, pointed up? I bet a lot of sound is getting absorbed/altered by the floor.

- My stands are about 2.5ft tall (I'd double-check, but I took them to my Dad in Michigan). The mids and tweeters were right at head height from my chair.

- I used a laser pointer and played with them pointed at my ears and pointed almost straight ahead. I liked them straighter closer together and angled-in more further out.

- They were anywhere from 3 feet to 1 foot from the side walls. It depended on what I had in the room. I liked them wider. I still got the full soundstage, no matter how far apart they were, as long as tweaked them into the right orientation for the position.

- The bass was best somewhere between 1 foot to 3 inches from the back wall (depending on how close to the corners I had them in the last^ bullet). 3 inches further away from the corners, 6 inches to a foot from the corner itself when close to the side walls.

[thinks]

I'd try them farther from the floor, closer to the back wall, and further apart

shaneybob

plastic_avatar wrote: »

You've got them on stands?

[looks at your previous post]

9 inches, pointed up? I bet a lot of sound is getting absorbed/altered by the floor.

- My stands are about 2.5ft tall (I'd double-check, but I took them to my Dad in Michigan). The mids and tweeters were right at head height from my chair.

- I used a laser pointer and played with them pointed at my ears and pointed almost straight ahead. I liked them straighter closer together and angled-in more further out.

- They were anywhere from 3 feet to 1 foot from the side walls. It depended on what I had in the room. I liked them wider. I still got the full soundstage, no matter how far apart they were, as long as tweaked them into the right orientation for the position.

- The bass was best somewhere between 1 foot to 3 inches from the back wall (depending on how close to the corners I had them in the last^ bullet). 3 inches further away from the corners, 6 inches to a foot from the corner itself when close to the side walls.

[thinks]

I'd try them farther from the floor, closer to the back wall, and further apart

They are on stands. Tweeters are at ear level, tilted 4 degrees. My room is quite small and square, basically 12x12 feet, so worst case scenario. They are as wide as I can put them. There is about 100’ of masking tape all over my floor from positioning them. Where I have them gives me the best soundstage and the bass is more than adequate. Not much difference in bass from when they are 1’ from the front wall. They sound fine, better than before. If I put in where I have them located into several of the room mode calculators it matches for best bass response. Remember, square room. Again, I wouldn’t suggest to anyone to put this kind of money into a pair. Maybe the larger Polks like SDS, for sure, but not these. This was an exercise in nostalgia more than anything as I’d never get rid of them.

plastic_avatar

Looked like 9" off the floor up there^, hence my focus on height

I had a square room (I bisected a large rectangular room), so I totally get the layout. My area was just a hair larger.

Our placement results are more different than I'd expect. [thinks].

How are the imaging and soundstage?

What is the biggest listening disappointment for you so far?

HzTweaker

Also isn't there something to be said about listening to your music/speakers in a room full of (other) speakers?

Gardenstater

Yep. They probably need room to breathe. Have you tried removing those speakers that are behind and outside of them? Room acoustics are super important, especially if you have worst case scenario of a square room. I'm thinking you really are going to need some acoustic panels, at the very least at the first reflection points and don't forget the floor. Probably some bass traps at the corners between walls and ceiling.

On the mods I think you have done the ones that people would say are non negotiable but they are the high buck for the bang ones for sure. Not sure about that Canare wire. Is it even OFC? I used Cardas Litz and Neotech UPOCC.

Tweeter anti-diffraction wool and Armacell foam inside the basket are two of the high bang for the buck ones and yes this is just my 2c but from personal experience.

pitdogg2

Canare is very good wire.

Gardenstater

pitdogg2 wrote: »

Canare is very good wire.

I have heard that they are a respected company. I do see however that they have an OFC version of that wire, which is the 4S8G, vs. the 4S8 which is standard electrical grade presumably.

pitdogg2

Every speaker cable I have bought from them is ALL O2free, you're splitting hairs, AS always.

As a matter of FACT several speaker wire companies use (canare) in the production of the cable that carries their (insert speaker wire companies) name, they rejacket the cable with their name.
Signal Cable is one of them.

4S6(G) 1.02/17 (pair) 1.85 0.037 9.5 3.0
4S8(G) 2.52/14 (pair) 0.75 0.015 23.3 7.3
4S11(G) 4.36/11 (pair) 0.45 0.009 38.9 12.2
4S10F(G) 3.50/15 (pair) 0.55 0.011 31.8 10.0
4S12F(G) 5.62/13 (pair) 0.35 0.007 50.0 15.7
4S14F(G) 8.00/12 (pair) 0.25 0.005 70.0 22.0
4S18F(G) 14.16/9 (pair) 0.15 0.003 116.7 36.7

They also make incredible coax cable, I've used it and their EXCELLENT RCA's to make very good RCA cables for gear.

shaneybob

Like I’ve said, they are better than before. Mainly due to the tweeter swap. IMO that’s the best mod. I don’t have golden ears or a pocketbook so they are what they are. I’ve never heard a difference in wire or cables that were of suitable gauge for the task. I’m done with any more mods with them and have moved on to other things like finishing building my guitar amps.

plastic_avatar wrote: »

Looked like 9" off the floor up there^, hence my focus on height
How are the imaging and soundstage?

What is the biggest listening disappointment for you so far?

12” off the floor.
Imaging is good as is the soundstage. But compared to the DIY pseudo line arrays I have there is no comparison. I have a set of Lii F15’s I just got and sat those on the floor leaned against the Polk stands to verify they worked, no baffles or anything, and they produce a soundstage that is wall to wall with imaging that’s incredible.

HzTweaker wrote: »

Also isn't there something to be said about listening to your music/speakers in a room full of (other) speakers?

Well, this is a combination music room. If anything has to go it’ll be the stereo system. I don’t have any other place to put it so compromises must be made.

The fact is the 5B’s sound nice, better than before, but they aren’t all that, especially since it cost me more to upgrade them than it did to buy them new. I’ve had these for nearly 40 years is many different rooms against many other speakers over that time so I know how they sound.

pitdogg2 wrote: »

Canare is very good wire.

It’s very good wire. I’ve never heard a difference in wire though.



I’ve had more expensive cables and found the connections well built, but no difference in sound. Let’s consider that it’s less than 20”. I’m not sure you’re really going to hear a difference in hookup wire inside the cabinet once you’re using a suitable gauge. Those line arrays have about 15’ each of fancy Royal Cable 14awg auto speaker cable from Walmart in them hooked to $15 buyout drivers going on 15 years and they sound better than the 5B’s after the mods, at least in my room.

Gardenstater

FWIW and this is just my own opinion and personal experience, but when I replaced my OEM Polk tweeter wires with Cardas Litz 15.5awg, I got a pretty noticeable almost jaw dropping improvement. And I didn't even twist the wires together which was an omission on my part that I need to correct when I make the time.

Not splitting hairs to say that the composition of speaker cable makes a difference. Just my 2c again and not trying to get anyone upset here.

xschop

I used that Cardas Litz on the point-to-point X-overs for the billet 5Jr's. It opened up the tweeter clarity a bit more. I have alot of patience, but not for soldering that stuff ever again.

pitdogg2

xschop wrote: »

I used that Cardas Litz on the point-to-point X-overs for the billet 5Jr's. It opened up the tweeter clarity a bit more. I have alot of patience, but not for soldering that stuff ever again.

I agree Cardas is great stuff, BUT that enamal coating is a PITA to remove. I hear a solder pot works but I did not have one.

Gardenstater

pitdogg2 wrote: »

Every speaker cable I have bought from them is ALL O2free, you're splitting hairs, AS always.

Awesome! I didn't create this chart though, on their own website. I'm not itching for a fight just commenting on DIY audio on an audio forum. I could be a skeerdy cat closet modder afraid of being rebuked or I can share my experiences on this forum. I'm going to continue to do that latter.

shaneybob

Interesting. I had a long post here replying to multiple quotes commenting on wire, my line arrays, etc. and now it’s gone. Even edited it once so I know it posted. I’m out if that’s how it works here. Thanks for the help with the 5B’s.

Suffice to say the 5B are better than they were. Can’t say the soundstage nor imaging is significantly better. I’ve had them for 40 years in many rooms, not a new owner. The best bang is the tweeter replacement.
I don’t believe nor have I ever heard 15” of wire make a sound difference when it is a suitable gauge. My line arrays sound better. Still. With 15’ of cheap zip cord internally and discount drivers. It is what it is. My room is a music room (re. Guitars and such that aren’t moving) so the hifi setup is what it is.

pitdogg2

shaneybob wrote: »

Interesting. I had a long post here replying to multiple quotes commenting on wire, my line arrays, etc. and now it’s gone. Even edited it once so I know it posted. I’m out if that’s how it works here. Thanks for the help with the 5B’s.

Unfortunately that is the "feature" of the vanille website, it has happened to many of us a time or three.

Gardenstater

I saw it. People here besides you have also reported that something went wrong when they tried to edit their posts and they disappeared. Hasn't happened to me......YET. That's annoying as all he. ll.

plastic_avatar

It's a thing. And it's frustrating.

I started copying my long posts (I'm... detailed, not wordy!) before I hit save/post.

shaneybob

I’ve never had it happen on any other forum I’ve ever been on.

Again, I would say if someone wanted to refurb these they should replace the crossover caps (just because they’re old and probably electrolytics) and the tweeter. Any more than that IMO is wasted money they’d be better off spending on different speakers instead of chasing minute gains that most couldn’t hear.

pitdogg2

I’ve never had it happen on any other forum I’ve ever been on.

A vast majority still use Vbulletin, which is VASTLY more stable than the Vanilla crud.