SDA 2b tl's too bright. What am I missing?

vintage dad

If I had more time, I could have listened to the rebuilt crossovers first, then swapped out the 0.5 resistor for the 0.68 I used in the place of the polyswitch for comparison. I didn't, did it all at once, so I am unsure which change made the biggest difference. No matter though, I am LOVING the way the 2Btl's are sounding! The difference between the RDO194 and RDO198 is truly amazing . I love the weight and scale of the sound from the 1C's, and the bass is to die for. But they lack detail, and sometimes the SDA effect gets a bit unnatural. Now listening to the 2Btl's the clairity and cleanliness of the highs is refreshing to say the least. I am hearing high hat and tambourine that were lost on the 1C's. Vocals are richer and smother. All the detail I was looking for without the brightness. The 2Btl's sound more musical, more realistic, more natural, while still creating the SDA soundstage that I can't live without. The imaging is tighter, I can more clearly discern where the each instrument is placed. I would like a touch more bass, like the big brothers have, but we can't have it all. I definitely prefer the overall sound of these 2Btl's I am a very happy camper! The wife will be pleased as well, smaller speaker = happier wife! Thanks to all for the wisdom and guidance.

F1nut

There ya go.

gmcman

Nice.

BTW, did you verify polarity on the RDO-198?

Also, try moving them away from the front wall about 6-8".

My 2B's are just about perfect when you sit about 1 foot behind the triangulated distance. This is the distance between the speakers, that is the same distance to your ears....just add about 1' max.

To edit...not in a triangle, sorry. Distance between the speakers, should equal the minimum distance straight out to your listening position from the front of the
speaker cabinet

Try it if you haven't.

westmassguy

You can increase the bass output on the 2Bs by replacing the large, high DCR sub bass drive spool inductors with Erse SuperQs. Unfortunately, due to supply shortages, Erse has not been able to manufacture any for at least 8-9 months. I've had to credit several customers because of this.

vintage dad

With todays results, I won't think twice about the Erse SuperQ's when they become available. I had a pair of SDA2A's a few years back, I had the SuperQ's in those as well as as Sonicap/Dayton caps and RDO194's. The 130uf caps in the 2A's were a trip, The Erse inductors were a worthwhile upgrade! I sold that pair to pay for the upgrades on My 1Cs, which I couldn't resist at the time and the price. At times I wished I had kept the 2A's, but I couldn't have tl'd them. Plus I like the black studio B cabinets.

Yes, I verified polairity, it was correct. I have played around with placement a lot. I haven't pulled them that far away from the wall, but in past experiments I found that the bass response increases the closer I get to the wall. I will say that I have some Mirage M1090i speakers that were my mains for a while. They were the first (and last) pair of quality speakers that I purchased new. They are bipolars and had to be 18"-24". The wife wasn't a fan. I dont have an extra room large enough to enjoy SDA's, so I am lucky that she supports my audio hobby (addiction) in our living room. She will allow anything with in reason, but has her preferences. Happy wife........ Luckily I like the way they sound about 3" off the wall.

TennMan

It looks like your 2Bs are sitting back behind the white cabinet and close to the side of it. You might get an improvement in sound if you could get the front of the 2B at least inline with the front of the cabinet. Slightly in front of it would be even better. Usually if you pull them out from the wall a little the bass will get tighter and sound more natural, although when you first do it you may feel like you have lost some depth in the bass. My 2Bs are about 8.5 inches from the wall behind them because my fireplace extends out from the wall but you can't tell it in the photo. I don't feel a need for a subwoofer with the speakers pulled out from the wall. However, I do have the Erse inductors in mine that westmassguy mentioned.

vintage dad

After today's results, I won't think twice about purchasing the Erse inductors when they become available again. I had a pair of 2A'S a while back. I had put the SuperQ's in those and enjoyed the improvement. Also did RDO194's, Sonicap/Dayton caps and Mills resistors. The 130uf caps were a trip! I sold them to pay for the upgrades to the 1C's. Bigger isn't always better. I regretted it at times, but I couldn't have tl'd them and I like the black studio cabinets of the 2B's.

I did verify tweeter polairity and it was correct. IIRC in past experiments I found the bass response improved with the speakers closer to the wall. I can't have them out too far, the wife doesn't like that look. I am lucky that she supports my audio hobby (addiction) in our living room. I dont have any other room suitable for SDAs. I used to have everything set up in a dedicated room but it was too small and oddly shaped, so it sounded awful.

vintage dad

I will pull them out a bit in front of the cabinet tomorrow and do some more listening. The room is far from perfect as well, I have a large window on the left side and an open space on the right. I have a pleated shade that covers the window, but not much I can do about the lack of wall on the right. Damn open floorplans. Gotta work with what I have.

TennMan

vintage dad wrote: »

... The room is far from perfect as well, I have a large window on the left side and an open space on the right. I have a pleated shade that covers the window, but not much I can do about the lack of wall on the right. Damn open floorplans. Gotta work with what I have.

I have the same problem. I have two large windows on the left side of he room. Other than that it is a pretty well balanced room but it is very reflective. Not much I can do about that. The wife wouldn't allow me to put sound absorbing panels on the walls so I have to live with what I've got.

audioluvr

You should really move those resistors to the back side of the board away from those caps

F1nut

The resistor is fine where it is.

IME and in every case 5 to 6 inches from the wall gives the best bass response. A half inch one way or the other makes or breaks it.

TennMan

F1nut wrote: »

...IME and in every case 5 to 6 inches from the wall gives the best bass response. A half inch one way or the other makes or breaks it.

I agree if you have a straight wall. If the speakers have a cabinet extending out past the front of the speaker it is like putting a speaker in a corner. It can give bass reinforcement that may, or may not be desirable. I wasn't recommending 8.5 inches. Every room is different. Just saying that works for me. In my case it seems like pulling the speakers out to 8.5 inches to get them out past the fireplace wall sounds better. Using Audyssey for speaker setup might be one of the reasons for that.

vintage dad

Sorry about the nearly identical posts. I wrote the first one,everything got glitchy when I tried to edit it, then I couldn't find it. So I wrote the second one. Smart phone, dumb user. I will leave the resistor where it is. After 2 tear downs and rebuilds and having them apart a couple other times, I don't want to touch those speakers until I can get some Erse inductors. Glad I did the hurricane nuts. Aside from the benefits of coupling the drivers to the cabinet, I am sure I would have striped out some of the screw holes by now. For the time being I will simply enjoy them. I will spend some time playing with placement though.

vintage dad

I wrote the previous post hours ago but didn't hit post. You know in the early 90's I worked in a mid fi electronics store and was on the forefront of technology. At some point technology flew by me, now I can't keep up. At all.

Anyway, 6" out from the wall they really do open up, more immersive and "3D" for lack of a better term. I instantly felt that I missed the bass, but rather quickly I realized it was all still there, just as you said, more accurate and natural. As I listened, the lower frequencys of the bass became clearer and after about 30 minutes I adjusted to the new sound and appreciate it. My wife even sat in the sweet spot and experienced SDA for the first time. I have tried to get her to do that since my first SDA's a decade ago. I like to do critical listening. She likes to dance, doesn't sit still well. I love to listen eyes closed, and I instantly notice when a dog crosses one of the speakers. So her dancing screws up my critical listening, constantly altering the imaging. I guess we all enjoy music differently and I am grateful she has any interest at all. After all, many believe the downfall of SDA was the WAF, I think that's the right acronym. Big cabinets and placement restrictions moved them out of most living rooms.

vintage dad

I got goosebumps listening to some female vocals a short time ago. Ive been chasing that feeling for years. For me, that's what its all about.

TennMan

vintage dad wrote: »

...
Anyway, 6" out from the wall they really do open up, more immersive and "3D" for lack of a better term. I instantly felt that I missed the bass, but rather quickly I realized it was all still there, just as you said, more accurate and natural. As I listened, the lower frequencys of the bass became clearer and after about 30 minutes I adjusted to the new sound and appreciate it. My wife even sat in the sweet spot and experienced SDA for the first time. I have tried to get her to do that since my first SDA's a decade ago. I like to do critical listening. She likes to dance, doesn't sit still well. I love to listen eyes closed, and I instantly notice when a dog crosses one of the speakers. So her dancing screws up my critical listening,

Sounds like you are starting to get your 2Bs dialed in and you really enjoying them. Sometimes little things can make you feel like you have new speakers.
The way you describe how your wife feels about listening to speakers sounds like you are describing my wife. About 10 minutes at a time is all she can take of just sitting still and listening to music without talking or moving around. I like to listen to music late at night with all the lights out and just absorb what I'm hearing without any distractions. Sounds like you and I have a lot in common.

vintage dad

Amen brother.

vintage dad

One of the most striking differences with the RDO198's is the difference in percussion, from the snare and the cymbals. The amount of detail reproduced is fantastic. Never unnaturally loud, bright or overemphasized, just.....right. I thought my previous speakers were pretty great, but you don't know what you don't know. I am hearing things that I never knew were there. But not at the expense of accentuating things I dont want to hear, which I have experienced with some past speakers.I feel that some speakers can be so revealing that you can't enjoy anything but exceptional recordings. My SDA1C's were a bit more particular with what I fed them. But so far I have enjoyed everything I have thrown at these 2Btl's. People can argue the audiophile term all they want, but I have heard some high end speakers that I wasn't fond of. For my tastes and listening style these are the favorite pair of speakers I have owned. And I have owned a lot. Advents, early Jensen, AR3a's, Dahlquist, Rectilinear tall boys, Klipsh, JBL,(early on I figured out that I am not partial to the west coast sound) Boston Accousics, Infinity, (not the Circut City polcell crap) Mirage, DCM, and, of course, several Polk Audio. There are others too, I was a bit of a hoarder for a few years. Granted, I never spent much money on them because I didn't have much money to spend. Thrift stores and Craigslist. I decided a few years back that whatever I listened to I always went back to Polk. So that's what I chose to focus on. I followed many threads here and upgraded several pairs, but always felt I could squeeze a little more out of them, that something was missing. That something was a tl upgrade. I know I am rambling but I am so pleased with what I am hearing, and its been a long and winding road.

TennMan

The first pair of Polks I heard were some monitor 7s a friend of mine bought new. They sounded great. Years later, after having several brands of speakers, I started looking for some Polks. I found a pair of monitor10s at a good deal. That's what brought me here to Club Polk. Once I started reading about SDAs I knew I had to have a pair. My first SDAs were a pair of CRS+. They are good speakers. I still have them as backups. But, when I ran across my 2Bs the CRS+ went in the closet. I no longer search for other speakers. I'm satisfied with my 2Bs, plus I don't have room for any bigger SDAs anyway. I don't think I could go back to speakers that aren't SDAs.

If you get some Erse inductors you won't only notice a little more bass you will notice more detailed bass. In the video below you should be able to hear the bass player plucking each note as he moves up and down the neck of the guitar, almost like he is the lead guitar. Even when he isn't being shown in the video you will catch yourself following along with him as he plucks each string. That is the kind of details the Erse inductors really bring out in the 2Bs. I threw in the second video so you could check out how wide your SDA sound is.


https://youtu.be/ZgiIFBgJ-lM

https://youtu.be/mTK5-l7FAvk

gmcman

From Pink Floyd The Wall..."One of my Turns" will give you a large sense of depth when the lady is speaking and walking around the home.

Wanted to reiterate, I'm sure you know this OP, but if you break that minimum distance to the speakers, your SDA experience is completely gone.

vintage dad

I am beyond the minimum distance. I have actually move my sofa several times and listened. Ended up with the centers of speakers about 8 feet apart and the listening position about 12 feet back. There are trade offs in different distances, but with my room and my system I am happy with the sound at this distance. Luckily there is no wall behind my listening position. I have used "one of my turns" many times. I also love the TV smashes before another brick in the wall part 2.