SDA 2b tl's too bright. What am I missing?
Comments
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vintage dad wrote: »What is the best type if solder to use on a crossover? I used silver, does it make a diffetence?
Silver solder is fine. Many here really like the Cardas Quad Eutectic solder. I've used both.
http://www.cardas.com/solder.php?adlt=strict -
The other day when I disassembled the crossover ( before F1nut suggested denatured alcohol for hot glue removal ) I took a small chunk out of one of the caps. It went through the outer wrapper exposing what appears to be foil underneath. Should it be replaced?
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Pictures may give us a better idea. Was there any foil on the piece you pulled or was it just the outer shell covering?
If it was me yes I'd replace it. -
I was leaning that way. I don't want to take any chances, I want them to be right.
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Pull it and check capacitance.Don't take experimental gene therapies from known eugenicists.
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So do you guys ever feel like you're going nuts with this stuff? I have my 1C's hooked up right now and am loving them as far as tone goes, but missing the detail of the 2Btl's. I rebuilt the 1C crossovers about 4 years ago, they are likely more of a hot mess than my recent work. So I am going to re redo them. I used Dayton caps in the MW section and Sonicap gen 1 in the tweeter section. I used mortite ( now I know I should not have done that) and the drivers are installed with the original screws a few of which are stripped. I just ordered hurricane nuts to correct that issue, but the original gaskets are long gone. So a few more questions:
How much more detail does the RDO198 have that the RDO194?
Would I benefit detail wise from using better caps on the MW's
What should I use to seal the drivers to the Cabinets? I don't want to use Mortite again.
Any other suggestions for squeezing a little more detail from 1C's?
My plan is to clean up the crossovers on both sets, tighten up the 1C's, then do some listening to see which ones I prefer. I figure I can't go wrong, they are both great pairs of speakers. -
There was never a Polk sanctioned tl version for the 1c or SDA-SRS 2. Personally I'd do the RD-0194 and call it a day.How much more detail does the RDO198 have that the RDO194?
In a word yes. I've never been disappointed using all Sonicaps in any of my speakers. I've done 3pair and none of them were cheap. Spend once cry once! 😉Would I benefit detail wise from using better caps on the MW's
I have found that Armacell pipe wrap works great. Not hard to compress, stick it to the basket after you cut to width. It ends up as flat as factory. The problem with moretite is it has a tendency to remove wood from the baffle. With luck yours is dried out and comes off with no problems.What should I use to seal the drivers to the Cabinets?
Good luck 🤞
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Armacell-2-in-x-30-ft-R-1-Foam-Insulation-Tape-TAP18230/100539553 -
Thanks! For the record my question about the Rdo 198 was more about the difference between the 2 tweeters.I know, sadly, I can't tl the 1C. Ive got 194's in the 1C's and 198 in the 2B's. I was curious how different the 2 are. Both are tremendously better than the SL2000. I had 194's in the 2B's before I did the Tl upgrade but the crossovers were original at that point so I couldn't do a fair comparison. It doesn't help that I started this discussion because my Tl upgrade as of now is not quite right. I suppose I just need to put in the work on both pair.
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Darqueknight rated them on several categories except a subjective listening test. A Tale of 5 Tweeters thread.
https://forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/182943/the-tale-of-5-tweeters-sda-tweeter-replacement-guide#latestGeorge / NJ
Polk 7B main speakers, std. mods+ (1979, orig owner)
Martin Logan Dynamo sub w/6ft 14awg Power Cord
Onkyo A-8017 integrated
Logitech Squeezebox Touch Streamer w/EDO applet
iFi nano iDSD DAC
iPurifier3
iDefender w/ iPower PS
Custom Steve Wilson 1m UPOCC Interconnect
iFi Mercury 0.5m OFHC continuous cast copper USB cable
Custom Ribbon Speaker Cables, 5ft long, 4N Copper, 14awg, ultra low inductance
Custom Vibration Isolation Speaker Stands and Sub Platform -
All I can compare with is the sl3000 in my 2.3tl's. I really liked them as they were a ton better than sl2000 I'd had in my SDA 2a, but that is not apple's to apple's comparison.
The 198's destroyed the sl3000 tweeters in smoothness and articulation. -
I had a pair of CRS+ in which I upgraded the crossovers and installed the RD0194 tweeters. Definite improvement. At some point down the road I TL'd them, which really brought them to life.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
You should consider sending your crossovers to @westmassguy, a member of this forum, and let him do them for you. You already have the parts. He did a great job on mine using the original boards. I found his price very reasonable. He has lots of experience and does excellent work.vintage dad wrote: »...I had 194's in the 2B's before I did the Tl upgrade but the crossovers were original at that point so I couldn't do a fair comparison. It doesn't help that I started this discussion because my Tl upgrade as of now is not quite right. I suppose I just need to put in the work on both pair.
- SDA 2BTL · Sonicaps · Mills resistors · RDO-198s · New gaskets · H-nuts · Erse inductors · BH5 · Dynamat
- Crossover upgrades by westmassguy
- Marantz 1504 AVR (front speaker pre-outs to Adcom 555)
- Adcom GFA-555 amp · Upgrades & speaker protection added by OldmanSRS
- Pioneer DV-610AV DVD/CD player
- SDA CRS+ · Hidden away in the closet
- SDA 2BTL · Sonicaps · Mills resistors · RDO-198s · New gaskets · H-nuts · Erse inductors · BH5 · Dynamat
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Today's question: I have LVT vinyl plank floors over ceramic tile over concrete slab. The original feet are long gone from my 1C's. When I got them each speaker had 2 feet and 2 nails sticking out where the feet used to be, so all was removed.. I "temporarily" stuck some felt pads on the bottom knowing it wasn't the best option. They've been there ever since. I like to change out speakers in my main system so I am leary of the spike/disc route but would consider it if that's the best option. What are my other choices?
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That is the best option.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
On the schematics the 16mH coil is labeled P on one end and R on the other. Does it matter which lead goes to either side of the coil? Not sure if I have it right.
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I got all excited when my new multimeter arrived yesterday. I got out my SDA handbook this morning I opened to the tables to check resistance values and wiring checkpoints and neither the 1C or 2B are listed in the tables, only ealier models. I thought this would be a good place to start. Does anyone know the values for the newer models?
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vintage dad wrote: »On the schematics the 16mH coil is labeled P on one end and R on the other. Does it matter which lead goes to either side of the coil? Not sure if I have it right.
No. -
vintage dad wrote: »I got all excited when my new multimeter arrived yesterday. I got out my SDA handbook this morning I opened to the tables to check resistance values and wiring checkpoints and neither the 1C or 2B are listed in the tables, only ealier models. I thought this would be a good place to start. Does anyone know the values for the newer models?
Check to see if the schematics are the same except for the MW drivers. If so, you might be able to calculate what the new checkpoint measurements should be based upon the different drivers:
1 Driver Type Q BL Compliance DC Resistance Fs
3 MW 6501 1.470 5.96 N 3.250 E - 3N/M 7.750 Ohms 31 Hertz
4 MW 6502 1.970 5.16 N 1.470 E - 3N/M 3.520 Ohms 44 Hertz
5 MW 6503 1.820 5.24 N 3.550 E - 3N/M 6.540 Ohms 29 Hertz
6 MW 6509 2.100 4.57 N 3.540 E - 3N/M 8.970 Ohms 30 Hertz
7 MW 6510 1.390 6.32 N 3.410 E - 3N/M 6.570 Ohms 31 Hertz
8 MW 6511 1.405 4.34 N 3.496 E - 3N/M 3.130 Ohms 29 Hertz
9 MW 6512 1.905 4.99 N 1.588 E - 3N/M 3.466 Ohms 40 Hertz
Edit - I just checked and it looks like they changed the inductors in going from the 2A to 2B so, since you don't know their DCRs what I said will not work.George / NJ
Polk 7B main speakers, std. mods+ (1979, orig owner)
Martin Logan Dynamo sub w/6ft 14awg Power Cord
Onkyo A-8017 integrated
Logitech Squeezebox Touch Streamer w/EDO applet
iFi nano iDSD DAC
iPurifier3
iDefender w/ iPower PS
Custom Steve Wilson 1m UPOCC Interconnect
iFi Mercury 0.5m OFHC continuous cast copper USB cable
Custom Ribbon Speaker Cables, 5ft long, 4N Copper, 14awg, ultra low inductance
Custom Vibration Isolation Speaker Stands and Sub Platform -
The 1C crossover is also much different than the 1B. I am going to pull the crossovers anyway so I will just check each component as I go through them. I predict more questions to come! I appreciate the help from all of you.
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vintage dad wrote: »The 1C crossover is also much different than the 1B.
IIRC 1B is 3rd generation and 1C is 4th generation SDA. So yes one would expect many differences. Different drivers with much different parameters. Two board crossover(1B) to one board crossover(1C).
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The handbook does have the CRS+ listed which I believe shares a crossover with the 2B. My 2B's numbers are right in line with those. The 1C's are also very similar, so no red flags from that test. On the 2B crossovers the. 0.5 ohm and 2.7 ohm resistors measured dead on ball accurate.
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I was pleasantly surprised that the quality of my past work on the 1C crossover boards was actually better than my recent work. No hot glue used, no cold solder joints. However I did not zip tie the caps to the board. Is it safe to drill holes in the board to run the zip ties through?
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Have those of you that have installed the hurricane nuts used them on the tweeters as well? I hope I am not asking too many questions here, but Ive resisted posting for years and now that I've started I can't stop! I've made some mistakes over the years by not asking for help and searching for answers, this way does seem to make more sense and your help is much appreciated.
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vintage dad wrote: »I was pleasantly surprised that the quality of my past work on the 1C crossover boards was actually better than my recent work. No hot glue used, no cold solder joints. However I did not zip tie the caps to the board. Is it safe to drill holes in the board to run the zip ties through?
Sure no problem. I used a small diamond point in a dremel tool so I could make a small rectangular hole instead of a round hole.
https://www.harborfreight.com/diamond-point-rotary-bit-set-20-pc-69653.html?_br_psugg_q=diamond+point+set
George / NJ
Polk 7B main speakers, std. mods+ (1979, orig owner)
Martin Logan Dynamo sub w/6ft 14awg Power Cord
Onkyo A-8017 integrated
Logitech Squeezebox Touch Streamer w/EDO applet
iFi nano iDSD DAC
iPurifier3
iDefender w/ iPower PS
Custom Steve Wilson 1m UPOCC Interconnect
iFi Mercury 0.5m OFHC continuous cast copper USB cable
Custom Ribbon Speaker Cables, 5ft long, 4N Copper, 14awg, ultra low inductance
Custom Vibration Isolation Speaker Stands and Sub Platform -
Depends where you're drilling.Is it safe to drill holes in the board to run the zip ties through?
Sure.Have those of you that have installed the hurricane nuts used them on the tweeters as well?Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
Just finished measuring all of the drivers. The MW's are perfect, but the RDO194's are different. I had 2 backups, so I measured all 6. Here's what I found:
1@ 6.4 Ohms
1@ 6.6 Ohms
2@ 6.9 Ohms
2@ 7.0.Ohms
Is this unusual? Anything to be concerned about? I assume I should use the 4 that are closest in value. -
I'd definitely use the two pairs that read 6.9-7 ohm. The others may have a lower outputGustard X26 Pro DAC
Belles 21A Pre modded with Mundorf Supreme caps
B&K M200 Sonata monoblocks refreshed and upgraded
Polk SDA 1C's modded / 1000Va Dreadnaught
Wireworld Silver Eclipse IC's and speaker cables
Harman Kardon T65C w/Grado Gold. (Don't laugh. It sounds great!)
There is about a 5% genetic difference between apes and men …but that difference is the difference between throwing your own poo when you are annoyed …and Einstein, Shakespeare and Miss January. by Dr. Sardonicus -
Thanks again to everyone for the help! You guys are awesome.The SDA1C's are back up and running after some additional work. I removed all of the mortite, installed hurricane nuts, touched up the crossovers and matched the tweeters. I also replaced the felt on the bottom with some hard rubber feet. I know spikes are preferred but one can only do so much in a weekend.
I also discovered that I may have had the MW stereo module wired incorrectly. The 1C has a black positive wire that goes to the positive side of the first MW, a black wire from the negative of the first MW to the positive of the second, then the while ground wire from the negative terminal of the 2nd MW back to the crossover. You all likely already know this, but at least I know now they are right.
F1nut's comment about "depending where you drill " on the crossover boards was foreshadowing for a near tragedy. I slipped while drilling and severed the wire in 2 places on the 1.25mh inductor. I was crushed. Luckily the 2B's also have a 1.23mh inductor so I performe a transplant. Day saved.
The result is definitely a noticeable improvement. I got more of the detail I was looking for. The highs are cleaner and more present. Bass is tighter but there is slightly less of it. I am pleased with the results.
The 2Btl's are on hold for now until I get the new mills resistors I ordered. By the way, daes anyone have an extra 1.25mh inductor I can buy?
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Thanks again to everyone for the help. My SDA1C's are back up and running.
I removed all the mortite, installed hurricane nuts, installed Armacell, touched up the crossovers, and matched the tweeters. I also removed the felt pads from the bases and installed some rubber feet I had in my garage. I know spikes are preferred but one can only do so much in a weekend. I am saving those for another day.
F1 nut, your comment "depends on where you drill" on the crossover board turned out to be foreshadowing. I slipped and severed the 1.25mh inductor in 2 places. I was absolutely crushed! Thankfully the 2B crossovers also use a 1.25mh inductor so I performed a transplant. Day saved!
I also may have had the Stereo MW module wired incorrectly. The C has a black wire from the crossover to the + of the lower MW, a black wire from the - of the lower MW to the + of the upper MW, the the white wire from the - of the upper MW back to the crossover. You all likely knew this, but I don't think I did.
The result is a noticeable improvement. Is definitely more detail and clairity. The highs are cleaner and more present. The bass is tighter, although there is slightly less of it. Imaging is more precise. Totally worth the effort. I am a happy guy.
The 2B's are on hold until I get the Mills resistors I ordered. Oh by the way, does anyone have an extra 1.25mh inductor I can buy?
You guys are awesome. I appreciate what you do here.
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If you just lost a few inches it shouldn't be a problem. If you however drilled into it well that presents a problem.
Pictures would help.
