Magnepan LRS... thoughts.

SeleniumFalcon

txcoastal1

You put on the likes of Eva Cassidy, Rebecca Pidgeon, Joan Baez etc you're going to be blown away

nooshinjohn

Sinatra... Bocelli

pearsall001

nooshinjohn wrote: »

You will need two of the KEF’s...

You could be right but I'm more than impressed what the single does in my 3k cubic ft room. You never know though.

txcoastal1

One of my suppliers, he is a Maggie fan with a single sub. He situated his setup with the sub centered in between

It was sublime

TroyD

I don’t know that it’s accurate to say Maggie’s don’t fit a musical genre....Listening tastes, sure. It’s not that they lack dynamics as much as planars don’t give images the weight, particularly in the lower registers that dynamic speakers do. They also tend to be less kind to sources and material than many speakers.

If you want to feel the full bass effect, yeah, you’ll need a sub....but that’s also true of a lot of bookshelf speakers too.

Just my .02

xsmi

pearsall001 wrote: »

I'm half tempted to give these a shot. I've always wanted to listen to a pair of Maggie's but never had the chance. No local dealer.

The price is right but they are in such demand that it's a 6 month wait. They also come with a 60 day in home trial period.

The reviews are all exceptional but as we all know you have to listen in your room on your gear.

A total different animal from a box speaker for sure.

I am not looking to replace the KEF R3's... just curious that's all.

Where do you live? I have a pair that you can borrow.

JayCee

Not to derail but this may be relevant in comparison for this thread...folks in love with the positive attributes of the Maggie's but frustrated by the bass response/driving requirements, PS Audio just released their first speaker, the Aspen FR30, and it's planer tweet/mid's were custom designed. Total package is coupled with bass drivers.

https://www.psaudio.com/product-category/aspen/

Pic's borrowed from https://www.ecoustics.com/products/ps-audio-aspen-fr30-loudspeakers/...



I'm partial to the black version, not a fan of the white, and have no opinion of the looks until I see them in-person.

First customer deliveries happened a few weeks ago and a demo set was delivered for magazine review to come out at a later date. There are 2 install vid's with one of them a gentleman that's replacing Maggies and, if I remember correctly, both gents have experience w/Maggies.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVC0N6Oy1b8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YrpYAMfB318

Hold on...sticker shock and definitely not the range of most CP members. A pair of FR30's will set you back $29K! Ouch!! But, this is considered their flagship and there is promise of lower prices in lower entry points that will be added to the line. Also, have a bigger and more costly model on the drawing board.

I have a pair of Genesis Gen II speakers I acquired a bit under a year ago that need a bit of TLC before I can fire them up. Four huge towers that now hide out in my basement. Not mine (pic from the net) but here are the Gen II's for comparison.


Considering Paul McGowan's marketing hype that the FR30 (or maybe the bigger one?) is to be the Infinity "IRS killer", it'd be a much easier speaker for many homes. When I repped audio back in the 80's I spent many hours listening to the Infinity offerings. If I hadn't stumbled back into audio w/SDA (my equal love from the 80's) I probably would've done it in the vintage Infinity realm. Considering this, I'm very interested in hearing a pair and will have a very relevant baseline to compare w/my Gen II's when up and running.

FWIW, many of my posts are PS Audio related but I don't consider myself a fanboy. I am, however, extremely happy w/my system, which is a full PS Audio stack. I'm also interested in many other brands but ended up venturing down the PSA rabbit hole. Marketing, Paul's heartfelt (IMO) hyperbole and any other PS Audio related sales chatter aside, I like their price/performance for my budget and, will add, I've never paid MSRP.

I'd love to hear listening impressions of the FR30 vs the IRS V's from anyone near PS Audio's Boulder, CO, HQ. Hint, hint, Larry (@Toolfan66) since our mod'd 1.2's are very similar and your Cary gear is tube based, as is mine. There are a few other CP members in CO and would hope they have experience w/Maggies for comparison that might be relevant to this thread.

JayCee

^^^^Can't edit...wrong pic uploaded above/later version of the Genesis speakers. This is the Gen II. From a random ad...

Mine just after I brought them home. They are huge and still wrapped!

Anyone heard them and able to compare to Maggies?

pearsall001

xsmi wrote: »

pearsall001 wrote: »

I'm half tempted to give these a shot. I've always wanted to listen to a pair of Maggie's but never had the chance. No local dealer.

The price is right but they are in such demand that it's a 6 month wait. They also come with a 60 day in home trial period.

The reviews are all exceptional but as we all know you have to listen in your room on your gear.

A total different animal from a box speaker for sure.

I am not looking to replace the KEF R3's... just curious that's all.

Where do you live? I have a pair that you can borrow.

I'm in Magnolia, NJ (South Jersey)...a stone's throw arcoss the Delaware river from Philly.

Nice offer for sure! Maybe it'll work.

nooshinjohn

JayCee wrote: »

^^^^Can't edit...wrong pic uploaded above/later version of the Genesis speakers. This is the Gen II. From a random ad...

Mine just after I brought them home. They are huge and still wrapped!

Anyone heard them and able to compare to Maggies?

Why even try to compare them.

TroyD

Oh baby.....if I had the coin, I’d have a pair of the FR30’s. For sure.

JayCee

nooshinjohn wrote: »

JayCee wrote: »

^^^^Can't edit...wrong pic uploaded above/later version of the Genesis speakers. This is the Gen II. From a random ad...

Mine just after I brought them home. They are huge and still wrapped!

Anyone heard them and able to compare to Maggies?

Why even try to compare them.

Just curious how the mids and highs are. If they are incomparable, simply say so. I've heard neither. Don't see why a question begs a question but I assume that your response is more a statement since you didn't use a question mark? Explain what a Maggie planer does or doesn't do that an Infinity like driver does. There's way more in this hobby that I haven't experienced vs what I have. I know you're a former Maggie boy, so you should have an intelligent thought?

nooshinjohn

Your comparison is absurd because you are comparing an apple to a Ferrari. They are so vastly different in design and execution as to be a completely different species altogether. The only thing that is the same is that they are each driven by a power amplifier to reproduce sound.

To have the GenII's in your home and never heard them? That my friend is a complete waste.

JayCee

Only "absurd" if you have a sense of what's different. Kind of absurd to compare the CRS's to 1.2's but they are of the same cloth and sound signature. Sorry I appear to have annoyed you for asking such an absurd question.

You'll see I asked how they compare to "Maggies". Plural...not specifically the LRS. There's been lots of talk about the most recent and top level Magneplane's being very impressive. Troy stated,
"Maggies....It’s not that they lack dynamics as much as planars don’t give images the weight, particularly in the lower registers that dynamic speakers do. They also tend to be less kind to sources and material than many speakers. If you want to feel the full bass effect, yeah, you’ll need a sub..."

So, maybe I didn't connect the dots to anyone reading, but I thought about my 20+ year old planers and wondered how they compare to the latest Maggies. Knew of the FR30's and the fact they are going to use trickle down technology at what might be a smaller/more affordable and more relevant speaker sometime in the future, so was kind of thinking out loud. Thought the "Maggie Sound" lovers might find something in it.

Not trying to make a thing of this but perhaps you could've worked with me a bit instead of coming off annoyed. You have a unique way of being condescending and your last 2 posts don't help.

nooshinjohn

Maybe you should start your very own thread then...

JayCee

Perhaps but have been around quite a few years and always thought nothing when threads wander a bit. Usually, a redirect is appropriate. Honestly, I never thought it would devolve to this. I'm out. To the OP, it wasn't my intent for this and apologies for this unwarranted distraction.

JayCee

nooshinjohn wrote: »

To have the GenII's in your home and never heard them? That my friend is a complete waste.

One last comment since you went back and edited your post....they were free and a very unique gift. These opportunities don't come around often.

TroyD

So, while I’ve zero experience with the Genesis.....I do know the original Genesis 1’s used the Carver ribbon and I know Paul McGowan loves the Infinity IRS V’s....

Anyway, the Maggie / Genesis is an apples/oranges thing.........but from what I think the design goals are I think you can draw a couple of conclusions. The Genesis will give you EFFORTLESSNESS. Full range, never break a sweat, huge sound. The dipoles will give you an immersive soundstage and the nature of the drivers will give you loads of detail and nuance. The bass? Fugedaboutit. That’s the good.

The bad? Amplification and space. The big Genesis speakers are not incorporated in your lifestyle speakers. The demand your effort and compliance.

The Maggie’s? Again being planar/dipoles you can approach or equal a Genesis or big IRS in terms of soundstaging and detail and transparency....maybe even better in some ways. Because, really, that’s what planar dipoles allure is. They are capable of doing that in an addictive fashion. As much as I love about SDA, I just get lost in planar soundstaging. Depth, detail and transparency where no nuance is too subtle.........what are they not capable of? Well, bass for one. Bass requires moving air to give it weight and that’s a tough thing for a planar. You can get the extension, sure, but it doesn’t give you that thump in the chest or flapping pant leg type weight. Effortlessness. Again, moving air. You just can’t get that from a Magnepan.....but, few speakers are capable of that sort of thing.

I think the genius of what Magnepan has done for 50 years is steadily improve on the inherent flaws of their design without sacrificing what makes them so special......

Just my .02

Emlyn

I noticed in one of the FR30 setups the owner had a pair of what looked like Rel Model No. 25 subwoofers (drool). Those are $15K a pair. I don't recall if they said what Magnepans those were paired up with. But, people who are really serious about Magnepans know they need to be paired with equally capable subwoofers to get more dynamics out of a system even with the biggest ones.

The Infinity and Genesis systems are notably different because they went for a dynamic fully inclusive system a long time ago. One could say what they developed was insane over kill. Not that there's anything wrong with that. Martin Logan even learned that they needed to make their speakers full range to appeal to more people. I still consider Magnepans to be a niche product.

JayCee

Thank you, Troy, that's what I was looking for. For the record, I had/have no illusions Maggie/Genesis are the same speaker (ie. apples to oranges) but your comparing/contrasting their strengths/weaknesses w/respect to the planar/dipole integration is what I was after. Last planars I seriously listened to were in the 80's, so the allure is in my memory but a bit dusty.

Size and amp reqt's aside, the Gen II's were ~$90-120K speakers when they were produced (mid 90's). Used, a nice set appears to go for $16-20K these days. The latest iteration is easily in the mega six figure range. Considering I paid zero for them and they are in very good shape (rate a 7/8 for cosmetics)...pretty hard to pass up ("absurd" not to). Only issue is one or two of the bass driver accelerometers have detached. I've been told (Paul McGowan and Genesis) they can be reattached but, in the event it's not successful, Genesis makes retrofit replacement woofers for a reasonable price.

Reason I haven't fired them up is it's strongly recommended to have the power supply in the amp refreshed. There are unobtainable parts downstream and to replace w/the latest amp from Genesis is ~$20k if I toast what I have. I'm renovating my house, so getting these babies running will have to wait until I have more time.

Where the FR30 comes in to this discussion is the size/amp constraints. IF they are IRS killers, IF they have the best of what a Maggies offer, IF the bass is killer...I have the ability to use the Gen II's to possibly fund FR30's. My intention is to not sell the Gen II's but assuming I did get $16-20...I'd only have to pony up $10-14k for a $30K speaker that promises alot. Lots of IF's that led to my apples to oranges comparison.

My intention was to create a thread when I start to restore the Gen II's, so I kind of got ahead of myself by jumping into this LRS thread that had me thinking out loud. Also, PSA's release of the FR30 has piqued my hope that the trickle down tech they'll incorporate in the upcoming Aspen line might be a contender at an obtainable price for you Maggie lovers.

Thanks, again, Troy, for the data point. As irrelevant as some may find it...it is helpful until I have the opportunity to hear the 3 brands mentioned and do more homework. You can only imagine how hard it is to walk by the Gen II's and know what lies ahead. If it wasn't me, I wouldn't believe this once in a lifetime opportunity was true. There's a really cool backstory that goes along w/this but it'll wait until I start the restoration thread. I'll leave it with there are really generous people in this hobby and I happened to have met him when I picked up the speakers.

Emlyn

Based on what I've seen of the FR30s they seem to be a competitive product in their price point with the many other high end brands producing traditional box speakers. That's pretty impressive for a company that has no track record of producing speakers.

JayCee

Emlyn, I was typing my last post and didn't see yours until after. More good points and I'm glad you also see the potential if PSA pulls this off. Other than price, Maggie and ML fans should be taking notice.

TroyD

PS Audio may not be a speaker company, but Paul McGowan surely is a speaker guy. He and Arnie Nudell created Genesis.

Man, I gotta believe that the best course of action is to spend the money and get that system up to snuff.....I’m of the opinion that it’s overall capabilities are more than worth it.....again, that’s a pipe dream for most of us. One of my bucket list items is to go to PS Audio and hear the IRS V system.....

Which leads me to the real drawback to the big Infinity/ Genesis systems. They are NEEDY.....and the parts and upkeep are necessary, rare and expensive. Again, they are commitment that you can’t take lightly....

TroyD

Now, as to PS Audio muscling in on Magnepan/ ML market share.....I dunno. I think everyone can coexist peacefully.....and certainly at it’s price point and no dealer network, no real audio press reviews.....it’s going to be a challenge. I think the real test is the down stream models to come...or if they come. Arnie Nudell had a serious disdain for the non IRS Infinities and he and Paul were really unenthusiastic about the small Genesis model....but saw them as a necessary evil.

I think PS Audio hits a nice balance with budget and higher end offerings so we will see

JayCee

Paul was responsible/helped me connect w/the owner...said Gen II's were his favorite Genesis speaker he and Arny created.

No joke on them becoming a labor of love. Fortunately, Gary Koh (current owner of Genesis) makes new and improved drivers for both the woofs and mid/tweet towers. I spent about 40 minutes talking w/him on the phone before my decision to make a 5 state road trip to go get them. To replace the entire compliment of bass drivers would be ~$5k and I was assured the wings were 100% (mids/tweets) when I started this venture. Mr Koh didn't try to sell me and encouraged fixing them. The amp is the biggest single expense if it goes. Genesis HQ is within striking distance and I have an invitation to meet up w/Mr Koh.

TroyD

That is awesome, I’ve traded a few emails with Paul and he’s a genuinely NICE guy....

Man, when you get that system up and running, I’d love to hear it.

JayCee

Any time! You are more than welcome and I'd even be up for a trip out/meetup to CO to hear the IRS V's and FR30's. Maybe we could rope a few of the Denver dudes into it.

Paul gets a lot of $hit for his hype but, you hit the nail on the head, he is a nice guy and, I believe, comes from a good place with his passion. I'd traded emails with him prior to this as we have common experiences living in Germany.

JayCee

TroyD wrote: »

no real audio press reviews.....it’s going to be a challenge.

Good point and, coincidentally, just read a newsletter from Paul that came out 2 days ago. First consumer show w/the FR30 starts today in Canada. https://montrealaudiofest.org/en/home Also have a pair in the hands of a mainstream mag/reviewer as of a few weeks ago.

TroyD

Dealing in hash? LMAO!!!

If/when a trip to CO presents.....that would be tres cool.