Must try MOD - Foam inside the stamped steel baskets - YES!

plastic_avatar

Luckily, my square cuts mean I miss spaces, so I canna cover it all, reasonably

Inside unnecessary, but doesn't hurt? I didn't put anything inside, yet. Just a fan of over engineering, ya'know. But you guys got me to peel off some extraneous material. Thank you

Ever since I understood a line from my Superman vs. Captain Marvel XL comic from the 70's, it's kind of a motto.

'In for a penny, in for a pound.'

skipshot12

I agree…
The anal side of me isn’t happy till it’s happy.
Like Sinatra said… I did it my way.
I also agree it’s not needed to cover every square inch but, I can’t help myself.



My passive is also as completely covered as I could get it.
Allows me to sleep at night 🤣

skipshot12

That obsessive side of me also wants to cut off those 4 tabs with the holes in them, mid-woofers, with my dremel tool.
Why…. I haven’t a clue but, I still want to remove all my mid woofers and do it!
Would it make a difference, beats the f outta me 🤣

pitdogg2

One must keep in mind these drivers are getting harder and harder to aquire. 10yrs ago most were plentiful on the used market, today MW6503,MW6511, MW6600 and MW6501 are MUCH harder to aquire in good condition. They may even be in good condition before shipped, but after shipping monkey's throw them around you could be SOL. I can remember in years past there could be several pages of 12" passive's on ebay. These days not so much. The MW6503 and MW6511 are almost impossible to find. TREAD CAREFULLY.

skipshot12

pitdogg2 wrote: »

One must keep in mind these drivers are getting harder and harder to aquire. 10yrs ago most were plentiful on the used market, today MW6503,MW6511, MW6600 and MW6501 are MUCH harder to aquire in good condition. They may even be in good condition before shipped, but after shipping monkey's throw them around you could be SOL. I can remember in years past there could be several pages of 12" passive's on ebay. These days not so much. The MW6503 and MW6511 are almost impossible to find. TREAD CAREFULLY.

Absolutely right on point.

This is THE very reason I’m not experimenting with lining the inside of the spokes of my MW’s as they are all I have for my sda’s.
The what if has me a tad too cautious should it be something I wanted to reverse.

Having said that…
If I had a complete set of additional mw drivers, I would sure as hell give it a go with the full Monty.

Gardenstater

Wait until more and more have done it and weigh in, if you're nervous. Only positive glowing reports so far. Trust is always an issue I understand that. I trust the opinions of those who have tried something above those who have not. Why amazon only accepts reviews from actual customers

xschop

The fact of the matter is all of the original drivers are old/worn and out of factory TS specs. The DCRs are sometimes not what they are supposed to be either I've found.

plastic_avatar

Speaking of hard to find... if anyone comes across a 5B midwoofer cheap...

@skipshot12 Your cuts looks great. I'm envious. Mine look like the Lego version and yours look fancy. Nice

Gardenstater

This one looks pretty minty. 6502 right?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/284983786288?hash=item425a5b7b30:g:PPAAAOSwx89jNPQE&amdata=enc:AQAHAAAAoMXVX054M0gKA5RgnkDM3TUDIAsHCjjyHsGVx+S8SMonHuVsnPFwK5BGausrEdqEqrZLYmP4xpt10ls/UMb3OglXr8ZkP7ZhhzhY/g7oOLsK/R20zPn7pXDfXHBP3oNVh0TTtNg6rohlXEOD8drAqGDYR6jYKDq+lrIMLngczNy8yCc6yEwR5E7+w7/xRVcoMolGIPLpAh2dKIABDCiyZWA=|tkp:Bk9SR_avj_71YA

pitdogg2

MW6502 are/were the most common drivers available.
Should be easy to aquire.

xschop

The 6502's are the best sounding for midrange as their suspensions are the tightest. I'm becoming an '02 hoarder.😜

As far as I'm concerned, the 6511 is just a 6510 with a 6502 voice coil. They sport the same sloppy suspensions

skipshot12

As p_a did...
I had the wife commandeered/assist me as I went along with my sound deadening.
I ran out of Dynamat Extreme. Went to our local car audio store and picked up some of the sound deadening material they use.
This stuff's called Ballistic Hollow Point. I do like the way it looks.
Will it sound the same as the Dynamat? I'll soon be finding out.

For some reason it's not letting me attach the video file.
It's telling me "File format is not allowed."
Hmmm....
I'm on a Mac. Maybe I'm doing something wrong?

I am detecting a slightly different pitch of the "THUD", between Ballistic & Dynamat, when tapping the passive with a metal object.
It sounds to be a little lower frequency sound when tapped.
Definitely damped with zero ringing.... just different.

plastic_avatar

@skipshot12 I had to upload to my YouTube channel, then link to here.

Thunk differently, but no ringing = that's the Noico vs. pipe wrap, exactly.

I do want to hear yours

skipshot12

plastic_avatar wrote: »

@skipshot12 I had to upload to my YouTube channel, then link to here.

Thunk differently, but no ringing = that's the Noico vs. pipe wrap, exactly.

I do want to hear yours

Looks like I need to learn youtube posting
Tanks, will give it a go.

xschop

lms wrote: »

Two weeks ago, I did this to one of my CRS speakers, both drivers. I don't have the ability to speak the way others do in regard to statements like, more air, etc. All I can say is this... After two weeks it's apparent that the speaker I didn't do this to has more "shout" to it. LOL, it sounds louder and mids are tad more in your face. The one that I did do this to is mellower sounding, which I like. And that's all I have to say.

This is also my first impression when I completed the small pair of TS100's I have on my office desktop. They were "shouty" from factory.

Gardenstater

lms wrote: »

Two weeks ago, I did this to one of my CRS speakers, both drivers. I don't have the ability to speak the way others do in regard to statements like, more air, etc. All I can say is this... After two weeks it's apparent that the speaker I didn't do this to has more "shout" to it. LOL, it sounds louder and mids are tad more in your face. The one that I did do this to is mellower sounding, which I like. And that's all I have to say.

@lms Have you gotten around to doing the 2nd speaker? If so it would be interesting to hear your evaluation. I believe you are the first to do this to an SDA model. Thanks!

skipshot12

Gardenstater wrote: »

lms wrote: »

Two weeks ago, I did this to one of my CRS speakers, both drivers. I don't have the ability to speak the way others do in regard to statements like, more air, etc. All I can say is this... After two weeks it's apparent that the speaker I didn't do this to has more "shout" to it. LOL, it sounds louder and mids are tad more in your face. The one that I did do this to is mellower sounding, which I like. And that's all I have to say.

@lms Have you gotten around to doing the 2nd speaker? If so it would be interesting to hear your evaluation. I believe you are the first to do this to an SDA model. Thanks!

Very interesting.
That is the only, and I mean only, slightly negative I have with my srs’.
From the reading it sounds like that’s inherent with the original sda srs’.
Something the TL’s don’t suffer from?

That’s what I’m trying to tame a tad.
I define it as hearing singers voices as if they’re singing thru a megaphone…
Kinda like the Rudy Valee sound back in the days.

The thing about warmer sounding speakers is you don’t get the fatigue that goes hand in hand with the more detailed sound.
I found that definition of sound apparent with my Legacy-Audio Focus speakers (original version). They sounded great but on long listening sessions, at high volume, I needed a break after a couple of hours.

I must say that the mod of deadening the baskets on my MW’s have taken quite a bit of that sound away.
And hoping the recap will take care of another level of that sound being diminished a touch.

Gardenstater

@skipshot12 It is always difficult to put what we hear into words and different people will describe things differently. I will say that this mod is definitely not for people who would want a more muffled sound. It produces a smoother and cleaner sound. The subtleties and nuances in voices and instruments are more apparent. The reverb or ambience in a small live event sounds more realistic. Multiple voices and instruments are more discernible and separable. You will understand lyrics better where it was more difficult to know the words. Backup singers that are at a low level will now be more enjoyable. You'll hear things like the little "yay" that is almost under the breath in the song Low Rider by War for example and say....whoa.....I never really heard that before!

I have no doubt that if DarqueKnight had progressed that far, he would've measured lower 2nd, 3rd, and 4th harmonic distortion levels. All of this is as expected if you read the Vandersteen patent.

PS: As I said early on in this thread, when I only did one of my speakers I had to rebalance with whitenoise because the speaker I had modded turned out to be 0.4dB lower than it was before and my center image had noticeably drifted a tad. It was subtle to the ear but my Android app which averages the dB over time clearly showed 0.4dB less.

Gardenstater

My phone camera doesn't focus well but you can clearly see the gauzelike nature of the spider on a 1983 MW6500 as well as the huge amount of sound reflective surfaces underneath.

plastic_avatar

Gardenstater wrote: »

...as well as the huge amount of sound reflective surfaces underneath.

Are we going to see a glue-lifting and foam beneath the spider mod?

If you'd like to try it on my plasti-plugged mw, let me know. (that would likely be beyond my capabilities... but this little speaker is willing to be Frankensteined for the good of all).

Gardenstater

plastic_avatar wrote: »

Gardenstater wrote: »

...as well as the huge amount of sound reflective surfaces underneath.

Are we going to see a glue-lifting and foam beneath the spider mod?

If you'd like to try it on my plasti-plugged mw, let me know. (that would likely be beyond my capabilities... but this little speaker is willing to be Frankensteined for the good of all).

Contemplating. Not sure if it is doable without voice coil removal, as Rob did on one driver which went to @dromunds. Frame plate may be removed and reattached with button head screws in counterbores, allowing adjustment. Voice coil may be pulled forward as far as possible and held with a jig/contraption similar to what Rob has done also. I have my 2 original equipment 1979 MW6500 drivers to experiment on to find the best non destructive means to do the mod.

plastic_avatar

Isn't the spider glued to the basket?

A solvent that won't eat through the spider + raise the spider + slide in sections of foam + re-glue spider = not awful, right?

Ima think on it on my long drive today.

Like I said:

In for a oenny...

And remember, you caused this

Gardenstater

^^That's something I had considered, and even possibly separating the surround from basket so that whole cone/spider/voice coil assembly could be removed. That seems pretty prone to possible mishap though LOL.

F1nut

Way to ruin your drivers.

Gardenstater

The two drivers I will experiment on are already non-functional due to crooked voice coils that can rub on base plate. Making the base plate adjustable will fix the problem on mine and in the process *may* allow access. This is a hobby.

By removing the base plate, it will allow more room to retrain the voice coil to be perpendicular (possibly with use of a heat gun too), similar to the way when you bend something there is always springback necessitating bending past the point you need to end up at. With 0.007" radial clearance to the base plate that is impossible to do.

I think it quite likely that these drivers were not properly assembled from Day 1 and it was just a matter of time (4 decades) for the voice coils to start rubbing on base plate when the inevitable suspension sag occurs.

xschop

If you can set up on a mill and drill out 4 rivets, then you can reset the base plate, but the frame hole is not much larger. Then take a grinder and open the frame hole up.

Way to improve your drivers.

Gardenstater

xschop wrote: »

If you can set up on a mill and drill out 4 rivets, then you can reset the base plate, but the frame hole is not much larger. Then take a grinder and open the frame hole up.

I don't have a mill but I was going to drill them out on my drill press. That's a good idea about opening the hole up a tad.

The other idea I have is to make an expandable PVC plug (slotted with an adjustable tapered wedge core) that I can pull the voice coil upwards as far as I dare strain the spider and the surround, similar to what you did. There wouldn't be anything sticking out below the voice coil cause it would grab it internally.

I will probably use a fairly dense wool felt for acoustical absorption of back wave here, rather than foam.

xschop

You mean like VR3's felt pad material?

Gardenstater

xschop wrote: »

You mean like VR3's felt pad material?

Similar but I'm not sure what grade that is. I think I will try f3 grade, 85% wool, 20.8 lb/cu. ft. Armacell is around 4.7 lb/cu. ft.

xschop

Great idea. Should absorb more midrange.