Polk L800 amplifier

I'm looking to purchase the L800 speakers from Polk later this year.

I am leaning towards a Parasound amplifier to go with it.

What is everyone's opinion on the Halo 6 integrated amplifier? Does anyone believe that this would not be a good amp to use with this speaker?

I've also been looking at the A21+, but I don't know if it is worth the additional money.
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Comments

  • Emlyn
    Emlyn Posts: 2,962
    Either would work but the A21+ would have more headroom and is a better amplifier. Having a separate amplifier also allows for using a separate preamp of higher quality. The integrated amp has the benefit of being full featured in one box. More convenient and less expensive in other words.
    1. Polk LSiM-707, LSiM-704C, LSiM-702FX; Dual SVS SB2000 subwoofers; Marantz SR7011 receiver; Parasound A31 and A23 amps; Oppo 205; Sony 65" 4K TV; FIOS; PS Audio Power Plant Premier; MIT S2 cables
    2. JM Labs Electra 920.1; Parasound JC2 and JC5; Sony HAP-Z1ES; Marantz SA8004 SACD; Music Hall MMF7 and Acoustech phono pre; PS Audio P1000; MIT S1 Cables
    3. Polk LSiM703; Anthem Pre-2L SE; Parasound A21; Sony 48" 4K TV; Wyred4Sound DAC 2; Oppo 203; Squeezebox Touch; PS Audio Power Director 4.7; MIT S3 cables
  • audioluvr
    audioluvr Posts: 3,244
    ChrisD wrote: »
    I'm looking to purchase the L800 speakers from Polk later this year.
    I am leaning towards a Parasound amplifier to go with it.

    What's your budget?
    Cambridge Audio 851N Streamer/DAC
    Belles 21A Pre modded with Mundorf Supreme caps
    B&K M200 Sonata monoblocks refreshed and upgraded
    Belles 350A Reference modded with Mundorf Supreme caps
    Polk SDA 1C's modded
    Wireworld Silver Eclipse IC's and speaker cables


    There is about a 5% genetic difference between apes and men …but that difference is the difference between throwing your own poo when you are annoyed …and Einstein, Shakespeare and Miss January.

    by Dr. Sardonicus
  • ChrisD
    ChrisD Posts: 97
    edited April 17
    audioluvr wrote: »
    ChrisD wrote: »
    I'm looking to purchase the L800 speakers from Polk later this year.
    I am leaning towards a Parasound amplifier to go with it.

    What's your budget?
    I'm thinking 10k between the speakers and the AMP.
  • WLDock
    WLDock Posts: 2,876
    Go A21+ then find used deals on a great preamp, dac, etc. Or just find all used older A21, preamp, DAC. Some have purchased the L800 for less that $6000. So, you might be able to put together something really special for $10K if you choose wisely.
  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 45,636
    ChrisD wrote: »
    audioluvr wrote: »
    ChrisD wrote: »
    I'm looking to purchase the L800 speakers from Polk later this year.
    I am leaning towards a Parasound amplifier to go with it.

    What's your budget?
    I'm thinking 10k between the speakers and the AMP.

    I'm not going to suggest an amp, but I will tell you that you cannot use a fully balanced differential amplifier with those speakers.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk

  • Emlyn
    Emlyn Posts: 2,962
    Is it safe to say all non-common ground and mono block amps aren’t going to get the best out of the L800s? And unlike older SDA speakers such amps can be used with the L800s but the speakers won’t work as intended?

    It’s not really clear to me if an amp can be both dual differential and common ground in this context.
    1. Polk LSiM-707, LSiM-704C, LSiM-702FX; Dual SVS SB2000 subwoofers; Marantz SR7011 receiver; Parasound A31 and A23 amps; Oppo 205; Sony 65" 4K TV; FIOS; PS Audio Power Plant Premier; MIT S2 cables
    2. JM Labs Electra 920.1; Parasound JC2 and JC5; Sony HAP-Z1ES; Marantz SA8004 SACD; Music Hall MMF7 and Acoustech phono pre; PS Audio P1000; MIT S1 Cables
    3. Polk LSiM703; Anthem Pre-2L SE; Parasound A21; Sony 48" 4K TV; Wyred4Sound DAC 2; Oppo 203; Squeezebox Touch; PS Audio Power Director 4.7; MIT S3 cables
  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 45,636
    Emlyn wrote: »
    Is it safe to say all non-common ground and mono block amps aren’t going to get the best out of the L800s? And unlike older SDA speakers such amps can be used with the L800s but the speakers won’t work as intended?

    It’s not really clear to me if an amp can be both dual differential and common ground in this context.

    Only a fully balanced differential amplifier cannot be used. All others, common ground or not are fine.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk

  • ChrisD
    ChrisD Posts: 97
    F1nut wrote: »
    ChrisD wrote: »
    audioluvr wrote: »
    ChrisD wrote: »
    I'm looking to purchase the L800 speakers from Polk later this year.
    I am leaning towards a Parasound amplifier to go with it.

    What's your budget?
    I'm thinking 10k between the speakers and the AMP.

    I'm not going to suggest an amp, but I will tell you that you cannot use a fully balanced differential amplifier with those speakers.
    Are you saying that the Parasounds I've been looking at will not be good for these speakers? I'm aware of there being a problem with balanced outputs with the SDA line, but I am having a hard time figuring out how to look for this when looking at amps.

    Your guidance would be appreciated.

  • audioluvr
    audioluvr Posts: 3,244
    Wouldn't it be easier to say that the amp has to have common ground? Unlike some amps that invert the opposite channel to make it easier to bridge into mono or who use separate transformers for true dual mono?
    Cambridge Audio 851N Streamer/DAC
    Belles 21A Pre modded with Mundorf Supreme caps
    B&K M200 Sonata monoblocks refreshed and upgraded
    Belles 350A Reference modded with Mundorf Supreme caps
    Polk SDA 1C's modded
    Wireworld Silver Eclipse IC's and speaker cables


    There is about a 5% genetic difference between apes and men …but that difference is the difference between throwing your own poo when you are annoyed …and Einstein, Shakespeare and Miss January.

    by Dr. Sardonicus
  • Emlyn
    Emlyn Posts: 2,962
    I think it would be helpful if Polk gave some specific examples of amp models that don’t get the SDA right. I have a dual mono tube amp that is not common ground but is fully balanced.

    Getting an answer out of customer service on compatibility or even an answer from a company rep on the forum should not be a challenge. Sales may be lost because of it or, even worse, returned product or bad word of mouth if someone thinks the speakers don’t do what they are supposed to.
    1. Polk LSiM-707, LSiM-704C, LSiM-702FX; Dual SVS SB2000 subwoofers; Marantz SR7011 receiver; Parasound A31 and A23 amps; Oppo 205; Sony 65" 4K TV; FIOS; PS Audio Power Plant Premier; MIT S2 cables
    2. JM Labs Electra 920.1; Parasound JC2 and JC5; Sony HAP-Z1ES; Marantz SA8004 SACD; Music Hall MMF7 and Acoustech phono pre; PS Audio P1000; MIT S1 Cables
    3. Polk LSiM703; Anthem Pre-2L SE; Parasound A21; Sony 48" 4K TV; Wyred4Sound DAC 2; Oppo 203; Squeezebox Touch; PS Audio Power Director 4.7; MIT S3 cables
  • BlueFox
    BlueFox Posts: 14,290
    Emlyn wrote: »
    I think it would be helpful if Polk gave some specific examples of amp models that don’t get the SDA right.

    Hasn't the SDA line of speakers been discontinued for years?
    Lumin X1 file player
    Sony XA-5400ES SACD
    Pass XP-22 pre, X600.5 amps
    Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers, SPOD spikes

    Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
    Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
    Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables

    Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
    Three 20 amp circuits.
  • Emlyn
    Emlyn Posts: 2,962
    edited April 18
    BlueFox wrote: »
    Emlyn wrote: »
    I think it would be helpful if Polk gave some specific examples of amp models that don’t get the SDA right.

    Hasn't the SDA line of speakers been discontinued for years?

    Referring to the implementation of SDA in the new L800 model. The implementation of SDA in the new model is different from the original implementations.
    1. Polk LSiM-707, LSiM-704C, LSiM-702FX; Dual SVS SB2000 subwoofers; Marantz SR7011 receiver; Parasound A31 and A23 amps; Oppo 205; Sony 65" 4K TV; FIOS; PS Audio Power Plant Premier; MIT S2 cables
    2. JM Labs Electra 920.1; Parasound JC2 and JC5; Sony HAP-Z1ES; Marantz SA8004 SACD; Music Hall MMF7 and Acoustech phono pre; PS Audio P1000; MIT S1 Cables
    3. Polk LSiM703; Anthem Pre-2L SE; Parasound A21; Sony 48" 4K TV; Wyred4Sound DAC 2; Oppo 203; Squeezebox Touch; PS Audio Power Director 4.7; MIT S3 cables
  • BlueFox
    BlueFox Posts: 14,290
    Duh. Got it. Thanks.
    Lumin X1 file player
    Sony XA-5400ES SACD
    Pass XP-22 pre, X600.5 amps
    Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers, SPOD spikes

    Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
    Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
    Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables

    Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
    Three 20 amp circuits.
  • invalid
    invalid Posts: 528
    I have a dual mono tube amp that is not common ground but is fully balanced.


    As far as I know, no differencially balanced amplifier is common ground. Differencially balanced amplifiers are only referenced to ground or what's known as virtual ground.
  • ChrisD
    ChrisD Posts: 97
    I got a response from Parasound about their amps:
    Thank you for contacting Parasound, we appreciate it. Our Halo amplifiers such as Hint 6 and A 21+ use a quasi-complementary topology. A circuit that is truly fully balanced from the input to the output is known as a differential circuit. It is essentially two independent amplifiers inside one chassis, one for + and one for -.

    However, a differential amplifier with power output and the ability to drive low impedance speakers comparable to an A 21+ or Hint 6 would have to be twice as large, more than twice as heavy, and more than twice as expensive. It would be unable to drive really low impedance speakers (a serious drawback), and unable to connect its L and R speaker terminals grounds together as common ground. Certain loudspeakers require a common ground (Vandersteen, Polk SRS, REL subwoofers, etc).
    For a such an amplifier to achieve comparable power output and comparable low impedance prowess would also consume more electricity, and emit more heat.

    The Polk SDA speakers work very well with our amplifiers, and we have a number of customers who have made this match and sung the praises of the result. Please let us know if you have further questions, and thanks again –
    Best regards, Joe

    If I read this correctly, that means that the two amps I'm interested in would work fine with the L800s.

    Anyone read it any differently?
  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 45,636
    They will work.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk

  • ChrisD
    ChrisD Posts: 97
    edited April 19
    All right guys - I need your opinion.

    These will be going into my FROG. I'm making it my music room.

    I'm building this house, ETC October of this year.

    With the size of this room, do you see any real benefit of going all out and getting the A21+ versus the Hint 6? 500W vs 270W into 4 Ohms. That's less than 3 dB of power...

    a5qladhby095.png


    Post edited by ChrisD on
  • Emlyn
    Emlyn Posts: 2,962
    Speaker placement would be a concern and a larger room would be better for the L800s. Something 15 ft by 20 ft with uniform ceiling height would be the minimum size I'd place a pair of L800s in. A conventional pair of speakers like the L600s could go on the 12 foot wall. The L800s would have to go along one of the 15 foot walls and there's not much room in that case to have them out from the front wall a bit with much distance from the speakers to the listening spot. If it were me I would get the A21+ for the L800s. The Hint 6 would be fine for a pair of L600s.
    1. Polk LSiM-707, LSiM-704C, LSiM-702FX; Dual SVS SB2000 subwoofers; Marantz SR7011 receiver; Parasound A31 and A23 amps; Oppo 205; Sony 65" 4K TV; FIOS; PS Audio Power Plant Premier; MIT S2 cables
    2. JM Labs Electra 920.1; Parasound JC2 and JC5; Sony HAP-Z1ES; Marantz SA8004 SACD; Music Hall MMF7 and Acoustech phono pre; PS Audio P1000; MIT S1 Cables
    3. Polk LSiM703; Anthem Pre-2L SE; Parasound A21; Sony 48" 4K TV; Wyred4Sound DAC 2; Oppo 203; Squeezebox Touch; PS Audio Power Director 4.7; MIT S3 cables
  • ChrisD
    ChrisD Posts: 97
    Unfortunately I do not have any bigger rooms that would work well. There are three bedrooms, but none of them are very large. The living room would not allow placement in a way that would work and has vaulted ceilings.

    Frog will be my best option... and I am really set on the L800s!
  • pitdogg2
    pitdogg2 Posts: 18,396
    I heard the L800's on a 200wpc high current amp and they needed much more power and current than the amp had.
  • ChrisD
    ChrisD Posts: 97
    edited April 19
    Hint 6 seems pretty high current!! 45 amps peak output.

    Of course I feel silly asking an audio forum if I should get a higher watt amp - YES. I just don't know if it's worth the additional monies.
  • ChrisD
    ChrisD Posts: 97
  • audioluvr
    audioluvr Posts: 3,244
    Is it me but that does seem like a small room for such a big speaker? It may work with a ship ton of room treatments though. As for power, there is no substitute for cubic inches. Or was it go big or go home I forget?
    Cambridge Audio 851N Streamer/DAC
    Belles 21A Pre modded with Mundorf Supreme caps
    B&K M200 Sonata monoblocks refreshed and upgraded
    Belles 350A Reference modded with Mundorf Supreme caps
    Polk SDA 1C's modded
    Wireworld Silver Eclipse IC's and speaker cables


    There is about a 5% genetic difference between apes and men …but that difference is the difference between throwing your own poo when you are annoyed …and Einstein, Shakespeare and Miss January.

    by Dr. Sardonicus
  • dromunds
    dromunds Posts: 9,244
    txcoastal1 wrote: »
    Here you go all setup...PM me for invoice, I accept paypal...

    5y0at1acs8h8.jpg


    The bar is too small
  • WLDock
    WLDock Posts: 2,876
    edited April 20
    ChrisD wrote: »
    With the size of this room, do you see any real benefit of going all out and getting the A21+ versus the Hint 6? 500W vs 270W into 4 Ohms. That's less than 3 dB of power...
    ChrisD wrote: »
    Unfortunately I do not have any bigger rooms that would work well. There are three bedrooms, but none of them are very large. The living room would not allow placement in a way that would work and has vaulted ceilings.
    Frog will be my best option... and I am really set on the L800s!

    For many with in normal sized rooms, the Hint would probably make sense... but why go with a $6000 3-way speaker set with dual 10" drivers per cabinet and go with the smaller amp? If there was a time to go with the big amp, the L800 would be it! However only you can decide what works best in your space. The same can be said for the L800 in the sized room you have planned. The L600 seem like a better candidate, but only when you get the L800 in the room will you know what you have. Also, the L800 is a single listening position type speaker, so keep that in mind.

    L800 Set Up Guide
    https://docs.google.com/viewerng/viewer?url=https://www.polkaudio.com/-/media/Files/DocumentMaster/POLK-US/Polk_Legend_SDA_Speaker_Setup_Guide_Digital.pdf
    Room Placement:
    1. Place both speakers against the same wall facing forward. NOTE: do not angle speaker inward or outward. The design of SDA speakers require that they are placed parallel to a common wall and to each other.

    2. Consider these distances when placing your speakers (see diagram below):
    X – listener distance from speakers
    Y – speaker distance from rear wall
    Z – speaker distance from each other
    S – speaker distance from side wall

    Decreasing distance Y will increase bass response. Increasing distance Y will
    reduce bass response. Your speakers will sound best when placed close to the
    back wall. Front baffles should be at lease 2 inches forward of any obstructing
    object, such as cabinets.

    Distance Z should be at least 4 feet. Optimum spacing is 6 to 8 feet in most rooms.
    If you have a live room (meaning lots of hard surfaces, not too many sound
    absorbing materials such as curtains, cushions, etc.) your SDA speakers will sound
    best placed closer together; experiment to find your perfect placement

    Distance X should be greater than or equal to distance Z.

    Distance S should be at lease 3 feet to prevent interference with 3-dimensional imaging.

    3n56davybumz.jpg


    L800 Owners Manual
    https://docs.google.com/viewerng/viewer?url=https://www.polkaudio.com/-/media/Files/DocumentMaster/POLK-US/Polk_Legend_Owners_Manual_English_L800_MP.pdf
    Placement of Legend Series SDA Pro loudspeakers is much like a standard stereo setup, except for the following differences:

    • No “toe-in” of the loudspeakers is required. They
    should be parallel to the plane of the listener’s ears
    • The speakers will be closer together than usual. A 60°
    included angle is standard for regular stereo, where 30-
    40° is typically better for SDA reproduction

    A recommended 6-8’ speaker-to-speaker placement and 10’-12’ speaker-to-listener placement is a good place to start. Find the combination where apparent stage width, timbral accuracy and direct-to-reflected ratio is the best. Keep side wall reflections as far away as possible, or absorbed if necessary, for maximum performance.

    Ideal Room Size Dimensions and Ratios for Audiophile Listening
    https://audiophilereview.com/room-acoustics/ideal-room-size-dimensions-and-ratios-for-audiophile-listening/

    Speaker Size Vs Room Size And Why It Matters Big Time
    https://www.acousticfields.com/speaker-size-vs-room-size/

    Speaker Size vs Room Size: Looking At The Science - AcousticsInsider.com

  • ChrisD
    ChrisD Posts: 97
    I understand I may be getting too big a speaker for the room, but I really like SDA and would not be getting that with the L600s.
  • invalid
    invalid Posts: 528
    ChrisD wrote: »
    I understand I may be getting too big a speaker for the room, but I really like SDA and would not be getting that with the L600s.

    I'm sure the L800's will sound just fine in your room.
  • Mike Reeter
    Mike Reeter Posts: 4,069
    ChrisD wrote: »
    I understand I may be getting too big a speaker for the room, but I really like SDA and would not be getting that with the L600s.

    "If" you're not opposed to the Original SDA design, and maybe a fews upgrades, a pair of SRS 3.1TL's would be a good fit in your space. The 3.1's are an easier load and Parasound gear is indeed an excellent match.

    SDA SRS 2.3TL's/SDA SRS 3.1TL's/SDA CRS+4.1TL's and some other stuff
  • ChrisD
    ChrisD Posts: 97
    I've already got an SRS 2! :wink:
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