Need advice on Polk LSIM change?

WLDock

JayDog wrote: »

I use 90% Home theater & 10% Music.

So, you are after 90% home theater, 10% music? That sort of puts you in the HT enthusiast territory. Dedicated niche market speakers like the Monolith by Monoprice THX (and many others) are geared to those looking for what you are after.

https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=34189
https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=39158
https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=38546


Power these 4 Ohm , dome midrange speakers with one of their 200W@4Ohms/300W@4Ohms 5 channel amp and the your system dynamics and clarity should come to life. Read the reviews, videos, etc. they are balanced, bring tons of low distortion sound, measure well, and sound good for music as well.
https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=15593

Also, you didn't state what you are running for subs? Two big ported are what you want. However, it seems like you are already down the Aperion Audio and Parasound road which is pretty cool. The Polk LSiM, Aperion, Focal, Ascend speakers that you mentioned are all speakers that I'm interested in myself. I've had the LSiM myself and loved the Focal Aria when I listened to them.

The Aperion and Ascend are speakers I've never listened to but both seem like speakers I can live with. As good as the LSiM are for both music and movies I found the upper end of some old Boston Acoustics speakers that I have with the aluminum dome Lynnfield tweeter to be nice in my room. While the speakers may not be as nice as the LSiM overall they opened my ear to something different. I've been in sort of a holding pattern with the old cheap Boston's because something that is going to give all I'm after is going to cost.

Anyway, here's a post that might interest you.

http://forum.ascendacoustics.com/showthread.php?6203-Sierra-Towers-with-RAAL-vs-Focal-Aria-936&s=ae67391bc220cd78a27428af27729f87

mak99

JayDog, I'm also interested in your listening tests for the new Aperion vs LSiC. My front three are similar to yours but I have the 707s. These were an upgrade about a year ago from RTiA7s/CSiA6 and I've been nothing but pleased. I do have monoblock amps driving the fronts (2 x XPA-1s, 1 x XPA-100) so that might make a difference between our systems for comparison's sake.

Question - is your room properly treated for sound absorption/reflection? I'm a big believer in this after buying my first three sound panels in late 2011 to put behind the front three speakers (before/during/after pix below from a past house). I was hoping to hear a difference, even the slightest improvement would have made me happy. But I was shocked at how big of a difference I heard when I listened to the Dave Matthews/Tim Reynolds @ Radio City MH on Blu-ray. Everything was more clear, detailed, better separation - though hard to explain in words what I experienced live in person, with my own ears, on a disc I had watched maybe dozens of times.

If your room isn't properly treated yet, I highly recommend you do this first to ensure your current gear sounds as best as it can.

And agree with Clipdat about moving the center to the front edge, so no sound reflection can occur. Though at your small distance it probably has minimal affect as the sound should bounce almost straight up towards the ceiling. But in general, try to keep any sound reflections to a minimum.

JayDog

WLDock hey Bro!
I was out of town with family for the Holidays, But yes, I learned some years back when everyone was coming out with Home Theater THX speakers, that you usually get more value in regular home audio speaker lines then specialize speakers.

I do like the High Density material and the design of these speakers from Monoprice, it is allot like a copy of the Triad Gold speakers but allot cheaper, Monoprice is a smart company they go with proven engineering like ATI Amps, solid cables and the monolith line has to be one of the best Value buys in Home Audio with there Subs, amps, and now Speakers for less then 1k for there towers made from HD board and those drivers that is a hell of a bargain imo!

But usually If you buy speakers that are specialized for Home Theater like M&K, Arendal, B&W and Klipsch THX Ultra2 Home Theater, There all great sounding speakers and if you need the high output great, but for me, I get more value buying regular home audio speaker lines at my listening levels.
A example is Klipsch was asking over 7k for there THX Ultra 7 speakers system and there RP line beats it hands down imo!
Also any speaker that sounds good in 2 channel Stereo, will also sound great in Home theater duty.

I am running 2- HSU vtf-2 mk5s, I tried out the SVS PB2000 and it was a close race, but I liked the adjust-ability of the HSU with its Q Control feature and it comes with port plugs where I can almost make it sound like a REL. from my Stereo listening.

WLDock can I make a suggestion bro, your list is opposite sides of the sound spectrum. The Polk LSiM is dark and warm, Aperion very detailed and slight forward sound, Focal forward and strong detailed Highs, some might get fatigue with some music with Focal entry lines like the V 600 or 700s. I haven't heard the Choras or Aria yet, I love anything over there Sopra line with the best Beryllium tweeter I have heard imo.

Ascend with the Raal option is like no other speaker, you have to hear it in person, its very detailed but not bright at all, it sounds like a AMT but better with more air and top shimmer, Its sounds good but I would prefer a Focal Beryllium tweeter at this price point. Focal also has a Chamber system like the Kef Meta behind there tweeter, it sounds amazing but costs!

These are great choices but they are all over the map, Once you hear them you will understand what i am saying, I suggest you listen to all of these speaker brands before you buy any of them. I really like Focal for Stereo, But, I know It will cost me allot more to enjoy this speaker brand. I would want at least the Sopra line to be happy, So for now, I am sticking with mostly Home theater and the system I have chosen so far!

I am happy with my LSIM and Aperion Center for some Stereo and mostly Home Theater, The Parasound amp really helped opened up both speaker lines and made a big difference and the aperion made a small difference but I am pretty sure the Parasound is what made me Happy!! for Now at least right Guys, You
gotta love the hunt for great sound!


mak99,
I need more time with my system it is looking promising but i need to get used to the amp and the Center will report back in a couple weeks, I will say the 706 center is a great Center also.

About the treatment I have some small treatments but my wife isnt a fan, I need my own home theater room its coming once we move into bigger house.

I like your set up, what did you make your treatments out of bro?

mak99

JayDog wrote: »

I like your set up, what did you make your treatments out of bro?

They are from Acoustimac - DMD series, 2" thick panels.

JayDog

mak99 wrote: »

JayDog wrote: »

I like your set up, what did you make your treatments out of bro?

They are from Acoustimac - DMD series, 2" thick panels.

Those DMDs are priced very fair and they still sell those same treatments, what would you compare the improvement to bro? on a 1-10 scale and what did it improve the most on iyo, clarity or dark background etc?

WLDock

JayDog wrote: »

WLDock hey Bro!
I was out of town with family for the Holidays, But yes, I learned some years back when everyone was coming out with Home Theater THX speakers, that you usually get more value in regular home audio speaker lines then specialize speakers.

Yes, that's why I suggested the Monolith because they are THX rated and not THX priced. They can deliver the impact for HT, yet sound good for music and are a non horn speaker. I agree about getting value from home speakers. Maybe not the speaker for you but a great speaker for those after the same 90% HT performance as you that don't want to break the bank. The reviewer summer it up perfectly.

Michael Trei / Sound & Vision wrote:

Most speakers make compromises to accommodate a wide range of customer types and tastes, but these new Monolith THX models are clearly aimed at a very specific audience. I'm not sure who designed them for Monoprice, but that person is clearly a big home theater enthusiast. At the same time, they made some smart decisions that allow the system to sound great with music, too. The build quality of the speakers in this THX-365T-based system is excellent, and, as you would expect from Monoprice, the value is superb. Enthusiastically recommended.

JayDog wrote: »

WLDock can I make a suggestion bro, your list is opposite sides of the sound spectrum. The Polk LSiM is dark and warm, Aperion very detailed and slight forward sound, Focal forward and strong detailed Highs, some might get fatigue with some music with Focal entry lines like the V 600 or 700s. I haven't heard the Choras or Aria yet, I love anything over there Sopra line with the best Beryllium tweeter I have heard imo.

Ascend with the Raal option is like no other speaker, you have to hear it in person, its very detailed but not bright at all, it sounds like a AMT but better with more air and top shimmer, Its sounds good but I would prefer a Focal Beryllium tweeter at this price point. Focal also has a Chamber system like the Kef Meta behind there tweeter, it sounds amazing but costs!

These are great choices but they are all over the map, Once you hear them you will understand what i am saying, I suggest you listen to all of these speaker brands before you buy any of them. I really like Focal for Stereo, But, I know It will cost me allot more to enjoy this speaker brand. I would want at least the Sopra line to be happy, So for now, I am sticking with mostly Home theater and the system I have chosen so far!

Yes, Yes, and Yes! I've had the LSiM703 & 706C and went on a quest to find sort of what you were after:

JayDog wrote: »

I want a less warm highs or more intense highs for home theater

I was after more detail in the midrange, and air on the top end. I mentioned Focal, Ascend, and Aperion because they were already brought up in this thread.

In the last 8 years I've have had 6 different sets of speakers in my HT/Music system. Also, I've listened to systems of others, been to some shops, and have attended the AXPONA audio show in Chicago area several years. That show has almost 200 rooms of systems in the $5000 - $500,000 price range! I've listened to speakers of all different designs. I found speakers at many different price ranges that I liked. Box speakers, open back speakers, ribbon speakers, you name it.

Speaking of RAAL tweeters options, These $26,995/pair at the time Vapor Audio Perfect Storm speakers moved my soul when I listened to them years ago.
RAAL 140-15D Amorphous Core Tweeter with silver/gold Transformer winding
2" Accuton Cell C51 upper midrange
8.5″ Accuton custom Vapor Audio exclusive lower midrange
15″ Sandwich Cone Audio Technology 15F woofer


One can dream! However, my budget would only allow something like the Ascend with the Raal ...after saving up for a bit. Back to reality, LOL!

Here are some pics I took over the years:
https://forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/160572/axpona-2014
https://forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/167205/2015-axpona-chicago-il-pictures/p1
https://forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/172661/2016-axpona-chicago-il-pictures/p1

I've found that I don't fit into a single sound spectrum box. I want accuracy, yet I would like to the the ability to have choices. Similar to musicians that have different guitars, drums, violins, cymbals, horns to experience different sounds. Just like right now I moved from a sealed sub to ported subs with the ability to be plugged/sealed. I like choices!

However, its just not a reality for me right now to have several systems or speakers, I'm not alone here. Just putting together one or two great systems has been a challenge. I'm still trying to get there and have never personally owned a high end music or HT system. Mid-Fi at best.

My goals over the next 5 years is to move to better electronics, build some speakers using quality drivers (ScanSpeak, Seas, SB Acoustics), proven DIY designs, with maybe ribbon tweeters. Also, I want own a set of Revel Perfoma3 or a nice performing boutique brand speaker. There are so many possibilities, It just takes $$$ and time.

JayDog

WLDock, sounds like we both took allot of the same roads and ended up with some of the same conclusions on our Hi-Fi journeys!

I like the Raal & Raven Hi-end Ribbon tweeters, for stereo listening but not for HT, its a little to relaxed and it almost sounds out of phase or like there is still a integration issue with most reasonably priced ribbons on some songs & HT I have heard using ribbons over the years, I still prefer hard dome for HT.

I am with you on only owning Mid-FI at best, so far in this Hi-Fi journey.
How do you like those Statement 2s, I could never get used to the original statements titanium midrange. it sounded tinny or small to me, it had good off axis results, It never sounded right to me, Midrange is where all the good stuff lives, I dont know if it was to small of mid driver, where they crossed over the mids or if it was just me? the original statements never sounded right imo.

I was not impressed with most of the DIY designs/kits unless you move up into some of the masters like Selah audio or Dennis Murphy and that isn't even really DIY imo.
I learned the hard way great parts and drivers, doesn't equal great or even good sound, the voicing and design is the Art!

The DIY market has to catch up with the times imo, they are still about a decade behind today's audio performance dollar for dollar, Buying Kits to buying premade speaker comparisons.
The DIY value and performance benefits just isn't there like it used to be 20yrs ago.
Several kit results, I have heard the last 5yrs, even some very well reviewed, proven kit designs, just didn't sound very good compared to what you can buy on the regular market, dollar for dollar imo.

I 100% agree with you about the Revel line, I have also always wanting a full 5.4 system from Revel, ever since they released there Salon2s.
What a advancement in speaker technology for even todays standards, The Salon2s are still one of the best deals or bang for buck speakers ever made imo. Salon2 holds its own with the true Hi-FI like Wilson's and Magico's without the crazy price tag,

I haven't heard there PerformaBE Revel Speakers line, I am kinda afraid to listen to them.. I know the PerformaBe is pretty much the Salon3 and I really like Hard Dome" Diamond or Beryllium tweeters the best for HT use, I love speed, details and dynamics with my HT system.
I am sure the PerformaBe is close to my end game HT 5.4 speaker systems, even though I don't like the white front face plate they decided to go with the PerformaBe line, I am sure there a Awesome HT system, I was told allot like Salon2 level sound for less cost!.

There is a couple HT systems i would call my end game systems like the Focal Kanta or Atlantic Technology Flagship, I really want to here the Starke Halo flagship HT speakers. but as of right now I agree with you as far as end game HT the Revel performaBe is the about the best bang for the buck, end game HT system for me, Now Stereo listening is a whole different story and bank account or life savings! That is why i am mostly HT these days!

I can tell you have down your home work and know your Home theater. I am just as picky and I do enjoy the ride and the chase of great HT sound and everything it entails.

Maybe its a good thing I haven't bought my end game HT system yet, after all, I am enjoying all the the variety and the hunt so much these days, it is a probably a blessing in disguise!
CHEERS!

JayDog

Also so far the Aperion Vera Grand Center is really something special for the price and for HT, I am very impressed so far and I can tell these are voiced perfectly for HT use.

I Will post a complete, 706c vs Aperion VG Center Channels review, after i have more time with the VG Center, if i can stop from buying the Aperion VG3 towers by then..

JayDog

mak99 wrote: »

I listened to the Dave Matthews/Tim Reynolds @ Radio City MH on Blu-ray.

Classic Blu-ray, You have great taste Sir!

I have almost worn out my copy, I only like a copy recordings mastered or recorded in Surround sound over stereo, Dave M. & Tim R, Dire Straits, Pink Floyd or Roger Waters 4k, & Hans Zimmer 4k..

JayDog

OK Members,
After several listening sessions with new Aperion VG center channel, I have to give it to the Polk 706c center for mid-range and the Aperion V.G. center for clarity & highs, it matches up with the 705 towers just fine, after you run Audysey room correction and Denon's Level matching feature to my normal listening DB levels. Here is my final thoughts.

Aperion Center matched in appearance in allot of ways, it didn't stand out or look bad at all. Aperion Center did add some upper air & details. I feel like the 706c was missing just a little excitement on top end for Home Theater. I tried tone controls and DSP and nothing worked as good as this center change.

I got what I wanted by this switch, but if I had to do it all over again, I would not buy the Aperion center, I would just stick with the 706c, you live and learn, it did make some improvements & is a great speaker, but not enough for the $700 center imo.

The 706c is a great center also and is still at the highest level of performance, I guess, I needed to be reminded, just how good the 706c still is even after a decade!

Much Respect! JD