Need advice on Polk LSIM change?

JayDog

Need advice on speaker change from Polk lsim to Aperion Verus Grand 3, I want a less warm highs or more intense highs for home theater, But I do love my LSIM for long term watching and sound stage, My set up is 705s,706, 703s & Definitive Technology Pro 400s for Atmos.

I heard the Aperion Verus Grand 3 and Assend Acoustics set up at a couple friends recently and was in love with the level of detail and highs of the Aperion Center and AA Raal Towers.
I was wondering if anyone has owned or compared these systems or any comparable priced system? what they thought of them compared to Polk LSIM, I use 90% Home theater & 10% Music.

What did you think? Could you tell a difference or was it more a minor change..?

Is it true how they say for Home theater we are much less capable of hearing a difference because of the visual simulation over powers our ability to be a critical listener, I think i said that right?
Thank You for your help!

Emlyn

Nice system already! I have not experienced either of those brands in person. But, I'd stick with what you've got since the Aperion and Ascend speakers appear, at least to me, to be sideways moves. The system you were listening to may also have been mismatched in terms of voicing if it had an Aperion center channel and Ascend speakers with ribbon tweeters as the mains. The room acoustics and equipment driving the speakers also have big roles in the end result sound.

Compared to other speakers I have heard, the LSiM speakers are smooth and balanced for music and movies. There are definitely speakers with a more "exciting" sound for home theater. By exciting I mean having sharp treble for sound effects and explosions. A ribbon based system would most likely be better for home theater alone as long as the speakers have a track record of reliability and are easy enough to power.

If you were shooting for that, maybe a full Ascend Acoustics system might make sense. What receiver/amps are driving the system now? Maybe go back to your friend's house and listen to the Ascend speakers some more with just the main speakers and some music on. You should be able to get a good idea for yourself about what the differences are between them and the LSiM 705s. The idea for a system though is that it should be properly balanced with similar speaker all around.

JayDog

My Bad, I miss typed, it was a couple of friends of mine and they both had a complete system, First my neighbor has Aperion 5.3.4 and my buddy has AA's complete 7.2.4 all the same brand with center surrounds etc, I see you have my system or colse i am using Denon 3500H as Pre Pro and Outlaw amp to drive, I really fell in love once I added the amp and gave them about 100hrs to really open up top end for music im happy but i have that other upgradidis or whatever..
You nailed it... do you ever think about a more exciting sounding system for HT like the new Definitive or Aperion for the added excitement, The only complaint if i have one about the LSIM is there a little to warm or relaxed compared to other speakers for HT, Should i not be to concerned with this since it seems once into a movie this kind of listening means next to nothing compared to critical 2 channel? Thanks for your advice!

Emlyn

My ears actually prefer the sound of the LSiM line in the long run more than brighter sounding speakers for home theater. Everything just seems to blend right without the tweeters drawing too much attention to themselves. It's just a good enveloping system of speakers.

JayDog

Emlyn wrote: »

My ears actually prefer the sound of the LSiM line in the long run more than brighter sounding speakers for home theater. Everything just seems to blend right without the tweeters drawing too much attention to themselves. It's just a good enveloping system of speakers.

This is what I am worried about, they do image well and no listening fatigue is nice your probably right, everyone loves the LSIM who hears them in my system and I have the Audessey APP making there FR line a little brighter for HT now, Don't fix something that isn't broken right! THANKS you saved me 3K

DaveHo

Currently have the same fronts as you. The Ascend RAAL towers have been on my want list for some time. Based on previous experience with Ascend speakers, I think they will easily surpass the LsiM. However, I'm in the music first camp, for HT you may not find the improvement worth it.

Clipdat

If possible, you should slide your center channel forward on that stand as far as you can, so that there's no visible shelf in front of it. You want it as close to flush with the edge as possible.

The way it is sitting right now, the tweeter's output will reflect off the shelf it's sitting on.

JayDog

This is a good Idea, I am worried about edge deflection in my speaker design, why wouldn't I be concerned with it on my stand/table edge also.. thanks for the tip.. good looking out!!

JayDog

I had to destroy this Amazon TV stand for it to work with the 706 center, it is not the most sturdy stand after I removed a couple shelves..But it works!

The old school clock is a heath kit, My father built by hand, he ordered it in the mail in 1974 from a kit and one of the first digital clocks made for home use, it runs warm like a amp and has caps like one inside, they knew how to build them back then, I know because this is the second set caps I've installed and still going strong over 50yrs.. this is the deluxe version it tells the time and Date..love it !!

JayDog

DaveHo wrote: »

Currently have the same fronts as you. The Ascend RAAL towers have been on my want list for some time. Based on previous experience with Ascend speakers, I think they will easily surpass the LsiM. However, I'm in the music first camp, for HT you may not find the improvement worth it.

The Raal Sierra towers are pretty crazy for 2 channel music, its just hard for me to drop that much cash on 90% Home Theater your right.

You should get them for sure, they are very impressive, I still have to give the best HT voicing to the Aperion Verus, that tweeter is like a peerless ring radiator with more detail or less rolled off highs, but not really harsh at all..it looks like that SB Acoustics Ring tweeter.
I've here allot of speakers the last 5 yrs and Aperion VG and AA RaaL towers are the only 2 that made me think about changing from the LSIM, that says allot imo since I have only had these a couple years!

jeremymarcinko

I’d recommend moving on from the AVR as your pre-pro before you even think about new speakers. Maybe a dedicated HT preamp like the Outlaw 976. I don’t think think you’re hearing what those LSiMs can do with the denon.

JayDog

jeremymarcinko wrote: »

I’d recommend moving on from the AVR as your pre-pro before you even think about new speakers. Maybe a dedicated HT preamp like the Outlaw 976. I don’t think think you’re hearing what those LSiMs can do with the denon.

Good Idea, this is another option i have been wanting to try out, Youthman on You-Tube says it was the Pre-pro that really made the audible difference when he switched to separates, not the power amp.

Youthman gets to demo all the newest Home theater pre-pros & amps like the Parasound JC Halo A53 and the Stark A8, I was thinking about a Pre-Pro upgrade, But I kept going back to a amp upgrade instead.
Its hard for me to lose the Atmos and Neural features, with the Outlaw 976, Its 3k for the Pre-Pro to have all the same options as the Denon without hearing the sound quality upgrade first. I guess its easier for me to drop 3k on a power amp i will keep 10yrs but i have heard the secret sauce is in the Pre-Pro's better processing.

I have been waiting for the HDCP 2.3/Sound Codecs, etc to become obsoleted first, but I agree a solid Pre-Pro is in my near future. Thank You!

JayDog

Thanks Everybody, For all the great Advice! Sorry for the long posts, I love talking about Audio gear and I have very few people to do it with, especially members like we have here with years experience, Allot of you on here, really know home theater!

I hope you have a wonderful Xmas and all of you and your families Stay Healthy this Holiday Season!

Emlyn

Welcome to the forum! When a forum member thinks they've saved some money with the advice given here the money eventually goes to something else in the system anyway. Sometimes at double or triple the rate.

That Denon receiver you have now is going to have a more lively sound than a Marantz product would. That's intentional to set the product lines apart from each other and they have different design teams.

JayDog

Emlyn wrote: »

Welcome to the forum! When a forum member thinks they've saved some money with the advice given here the money eventually goes to something else in the system anyway. Sometimes at double or triple the rate.

That Denon receiver you have now is going to have a more lively sound than a Marantz product would. That's intentional to set the product lines apart from each other and they have different design teams.

Well... Emlyn at least its not going to snake oils, I still very much appreciate the years of experience & knowledge!
Thanks Sir!

How would you describe the Yamaha vs the Denon sound signature?
Which do you prefer?

Also read below about amp question if you have any input of amps as well its all appreciated!

Thanks!

JayDog

Have any of our members heard or own a top of the line home theater Amp like the Stark A8 with a high Class A Bias of 30 watts pure class A before it turns into class AB?

I have heard several amps like this in 2 channel back in the days and I cannot imagine this type of amplification not making a huge audible difference in everything like, nice dark background, great Dynamics and especially the silky Highs etc?

Is this level amp just not as important for HT ?

I was always told spend most of your cash on a solid Amp first in 2 channel, then speakers, but I was doing all critical listening, not multi-channel HT.

Whats Members thoughts on this?



My bucket list HT Amp, maybe someday!

https://www.starkesound.com/detail.html?id=46

Clipdat

That looks like a pretty cool amp, but I echo what others said above. If your Pre/Pro is neutering your signal quality, then it doesn't matter how good your amplifier is.

erniejade

I think @lightman1 has a set of Aperion and likes them.

Emlyn

Starke looks like an interesting "new" company. I'll have to look more at what they're up to.

Speakers and amps!

marvda1

erniejade wrote: »

I think @lightman1 has a set of Aperion and likes them.

i thought he had amphion speakers.

JayDog

Emlyn wrote: »

Starke looks like an interesting "new" company. I'll have to look more at what they're up to.

Speakers and amps!

Stark Sound looks like they only use sound engineering to me, Solid Speaker design from what I can tell so far, There speakers are 3 ways with Beryllium Dome Tweeters & top shelf drivers, solid crossover parts etc.

The speaker line I was looking at was the Halo line and A8 amp, which is what i call bucket list HT,
I know guys, a speaker and amp company sounds crazy, its hard enough to be a woofer or tweeter designer at the top level, but they are not reinventing the wheel, they use allot of the same sound engineering as the 2 channel companies I have grown up with but again, where do you draw the line for HT?
This is just my dream HT.


Do you think Halo and A8 line is overkill for HT only?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1h_eMol8XT0

JayDog

Clipdat wrote: »

That looks like a pretty cool amp, but I echo what others said above. If your Pre/Pro is neutering your signal quality, then it doesn't matter how good your amplifier is.

I can see how the Pre pro will matter more compared to amp, I am coming from 2 channel and don't know where to draw the line to diminishing returns because of Multi-channel, I took a decade off and got married and now i am back but nothing crazy and just HT!

Stark is one of the HT companies that stood out to me and are building a strong following online, Jiles "You-Tube review" doesn't review for gifts or for a living, he just loves HT.
He reviewed and bought both Starks A8 amp and Halo speakers in his 75k HT room. way out of my league but i can always dream!

erniejade

marvda1 wrote: »

erniejade wrote: »

I think @lightman1 has a set of Aperion and likes them.

i thought he had amphion speakers.

Your right Marv, I got the 2 mixed up.

marvda1

been trying to get them away from him ever since he had them at skip's.
when they were up for sale i dragged my feet because i didn't know what they sounded like.

JayDog

Well I just broke down and bought a Parasound A52+ and my new Center Channel arrived today also the Aperion V Grand III, I will let you know how room corection and level matching works out with the LSIM series.
The VG center looks pretty close to the same style and so much for going for a little smaller CC size? its just as big, I should of looked the box is huge for just a center channel..

jeremymarcinko

I don’t understand the move from a timbre matched center. Even if a better speaker the front stage will be less seamless, no? Room correction may help blend them by leveling out the the curve, but I’d have to think it’s not going to compensate enough to where you won’t notice the transition across the front stage. Maybe I’m wrong.

jeremymarcinko

Congrats on the amp BTW! That is awesome!

Emlyn

The Aperion center speaker is overall smaller than the 706C in width and depth and weighs about 9 lbs less or about 30 percent lighter. About the same in height. Driver complement is similar in layout, but I suspect the Aperion uses a less robust cabinet structure or maybe the more curved shape drops the weight some. The motor structure on the woofers may also be lighter but that is a substantial difference in weight.

Let us know how it sounds compared to the LSiM. That range looks like a fairly good deal.

JayDog

jeremy,
I have similar concerns my friend, I come from the old days where the LCR was the exact same 3 speakers, Hardly nobody used CC's in there rooms.
My buddy has convinced me with proper adjustments and modern Rew/Room Correction, The VG CC has a soft dome and blends flawlessly, He is happy as can be and saying it adds little more lively or Energetic sound I am wanting for HT, I will report back my results.

Emlyn,
You gotta love this board, Thanks for the info!
I will post my findings on the CC adventure! The Aperion won hands down over the CVS Ultra, B&W 600 Anniversary and Klipsch RP in his trails. He has same set up but better front end then me with Emotiva Pre Pro and the Parasound A51 driving mains and the A52+ driving remaining speakers!

I just seen you have the same Parasound Amps! that makes total sense, I am in good company here, I love the JC design sound! I missed class A, way to much! I Will post my results after.
Happy Holidays Folks!

Emlyn

I think you’ll like that A52+. I had an A52 for a few years for surround duty until I dropped back to a 5.2 system. I thought about getting an A51 for a long time but really liked the back panel connector spacing on the A52 and it did not lack power.

JayDog

5.2 is all the system I need these days also imo, It has a huge sweet spot for me and the wife.
A52 set up with the crossover at 80hz and 220watts in 2 ch mode. I am hoping the A52 will be fine, I like my listening level to be just below reference level but still mostly Class A so I get that smooth and detailed Top End I love..
Wow Emlyn, you even have the Focals, the Electras with the reverse dome tweeter?
Your list is Awesome, even down to the MIT shotgun cables, That is crazy all of your list is still Top Shelf and always will be in my book, Nice set up!