Who uses tone controls
Comments
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mhardy6647 wrote: »rburgess714 wrote: »Thanks all this makes me feel good about ordering a piece that doesn’t have them.afterburnt wrote: »Have what?
The first rule about tone controls is that you don't talk about tone controls.BlueBirdMusic wrote: »Using "tone controls" is like going to a fine restaurant and telling the chef to leave off one or more of the main ingredients in a signature dish.
Actually, more like slathering ketchup over the dish.
What if that dish is scrambled eggs? -
I use them once in a while.
If I do, it's not much.
Listening to CDs, I also switch to "PURE" or "DIRECT" settings just to hear the short path some amps or receivers have. I think I hear a little difference from the reg. settings.
Right now, I have a Yamaha C2 pre-amp with a Carver TFM35thx amp for one system. I might play with the bass options a little, rarely the treble.
I like sound control. Always have.
Most people just listen to music and watch movies. I EXPERIENCE them. -
I was reading this article about Wilson Audio Pedestals and the first paragraph has an unexpected answer regarding tone controls.
“Over the years, we’ve tried endless numbers of tweaks to get the most out of our components. Some work, others don’t, and some behave as un-wanted tone controls.”
https://parttimeaudiophile.com/2020/09/26/wilson-audio-pedestal-review/amp/"Sometimes you have to look to the past to understand where you are going in the future"Anger is just anger. It isn’t good. It isn’t bad. It just is. What you do with it is what matters.
You can use it to build or to destroy. You just have to make the choice. Jim Butcher
Harry / Marietta GA -
I used to have 1K, 2.5K and 10K dialed back a bit with the SL2000 tweeters.
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motorstereo wrote: »Does using a sub to assist the low end count? If so then I'm guilty.
I don't think so -- and me, too.
Actually, after more than six decades shufflin' around, I really don't begrudge anyone use of tone controls, or calibrated mics, REW and carefully crafted EQ curves, for that matter.
I haven't personally felt the need for any for a long time -- but, that said, I do hear the siren song of DSP more than occasionally.
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Sometimes with vintage stereo receivers, or integrated amps, using the tone controls is almost a necessity. I'm also not opposed to using the 'Loudness' button, especially at lower volumes. But with modern gear, not so much."This may not matter to you, but it does to me for various reasons, many of them illogical or irrational, but the vinyl hobby is not really logical or rational..." - member on Vinyl Engine
"Sometimes I do what I want to do. The rest of the time, I do what I have to." - Cicero, in Gladiator
Regarding collectibles: "It's not who gets it. It's who gets stuck with it." - Jimmy Fallon -
Needless to say: do what sounds good to you.
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Now that I looked at my P5 I probably should dik around with the sub level controller I forgot it was there.
No time or patience to do anything until the house AC/Heat is done, so much carp to get out of the way for therapist to work. -
My den rig is KEF ls50w. It has adjustments for wall distance, bookshelf or stand . While it's not technically bass and treble tone controls, I consider it tone controls in the digital realm.
In the livingroom rig, one reason why I kept the T+A was the loudness button and tone controls. 90% of the time i have the defeat on but , some older recordings are mastered poor. A quick hit of the loudness button or a slight adjustment and they are more listenable.Klipsch The Nines, Audioquest Thunderbird Interconnect, Innuos Zen MK3 W4S recovery, Revolution Audio Labs USB & Ethernet, Border Patrol SE-I, Audioquest Niagara 5000 & Thunder, Cullen Crossover II PC's. -
@erniejade never crossed my mind but I do have a few bad recordings of great music, maybe tone control will make them more...pleant?
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Guilty of using the 21 century equivalent, Audyssey XT32
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afterburnt wrote: »@erniejade never crossed my mind but I do have a few bad recordings of great music, maybe tone control will make them more...pleant?
Whereas audiophiles treasure great recordings of bad music.
(and tone controls cannot help)
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It's like pouring ketchup on a fine steak!Main Rig:
Krell KAV 250a biamped to mid/highs
Parasound HCA1500A biamped to lows
Nakamichi EC100 Active xover
MIT exp 1 ic's
Perreaux SA33 class A preamp
AQ kingcobra ic's
OPPO 83 CDP
Lehmann audio black cube SE phono pre, Audioquest phono wire (ITA1/1)
Denon DP-1200 TT. AToc9ML MC cart.
Monster HTS 3600 power conditioner
ADS L1590/2 Biamped
MIT exps2 speaker cable -
°^ and cooked well done.The best way to predict the future is to invent it.
It is imperative that we recognize that an opinion is not a fact. -
I've found that even cabling upgrades can be considered tone controls as far as the effect it has had on my system goes.George / NJ
Polk 7B main speakers, std. mods+ (1979, orig owner)
Martin Logan Dynamo sub w/6ft 14awg Power Cord
Onkyo A-8017 integrated
Logitech Squeezebox Touch Streamer w/EDO applet
iFi nano iDSD DAC
iPurifier3
iDefender w/ iPower PS
Custom Steve Wilson 1m UPOCC Interconnect
iFi Mercury 0.5m OFHC continuous cast copper USB cable
Custom Ribbon Speaker Cables, 5ft long, 4N Copper, 14awg, ultra low inductance
Custom Vibration Isolation Speaker Stands and Sub Platform -
Gardenstater wrote: »I've found that even cabling upgrades can be considered tone controls as far as the effect it has had on my system goes.
That's pretty much what I did. My B&K mono's are a little lacking in the treble but I really liked everything else about them so that's why I upgraded all my cables to the WW silver eclipses.Gustard X26 Pro DAC
Belles 21A Pre modded with Mundorf Supreme caps
B&K M200 Sonata monoblocks refreshed and upgraded
Polk SDA 1C's modded / 1000Va Dreadnaught
Wireworld Silver Eclipse IC's and speaker cables
Harman Kardon T65C w/Grado Gold. (Don't laugh. It sounds great!)
There is about a 5% genetic difference between apes and men …but that difference is the difference between throwing your own poo when you are annoyed …and Einstein, Shakespeare and Miss January. by Dr. Sardonicus -
I attenuate the treble a bit on my preamp because my wife is far more sensitive than I to high frequency sounds. while I prefer to hear the full sound in the treble range, by making the high frequency sound more palatable to my wife, I can listen at higher volume levels than she would otherwise tolerate.Family Room, Innuos Statement streamer (Roon Core) with Morrow Audio USB cable to McIntosh MC 2700 pre with DC2 Digital Audio Module; AQ Sky XLRs to CAT 600.2 dualmono amp, Morrow Elite Speaker Cables to NOLA Baby Grand Reference Gold 3 speakers. Power source for all components: Silver Circle Audio Pure Power One with dedicated 20 amp circuit to main panel.
Exercise Room, Innuos Streamer via Cat 6 cable connection to PS Audio PerfectWave MkII DAC w/Bridge II, AQ King Cobra RCAs to Perreaux PMF3150 amp (fully restored and upgraded by Jeffrey Jackson, Precision Audio Labs), Supra Rondo 4x2.5 Speaker Cables to SDA 1Cs (Vr3 Mods Xovers and other mods.), Dreadnaught with Supra Rondo 4x2.5 interconnect cables by Vr3 Mods. Power for each component from dedicated 20 amp circuit to main panel, except Innuos Statement powered from Silver Circle Audio Pure Power One. -
@Moose68Bash have you been around? Good to see you here!
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I do have some silver clad BJC's IC's to play around with on my Marantz/TT system before I resort to tone controls. I have the pure silvers from one of our dearly departed Polkies that I liked in the last set up plus a Schiit phonostage if need be. Forgive me for not remembering who it was that made them and who I got them from.
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I have them on my preamp. Don’t use them much but sometimes recordings are not great. It is actually one of the reasons I purchased my preamp. I felt that I could use them when needed and bypass them when not.2 Channel Rosso Fiorentino Volterra II, 2 REL Carbon Limited, Norma Revo IPA-140B, Lumin U2 Mini, VPI Prime w/SoundSmith Zephyr MIMC, Modwright PH 150, Denon DP-59l w/Denon DL-301MKII, WAY Silver 3 Ana+ Speaker Cables, WAY Silver 4+ Interconnect Cables, AudioQuest Niagara 7000 w/Dragon and Hurricane Power Cables
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afterburnt wrote: »I do have some silver clad BJC's IC's to play around with on my Marantz/TT system before I resort to tone controls. I have the pure silvers from one of our dearly departed Polkies that I liked in the last set up plus a Schiit phonostage if need be. Forgive me for not remembering who it was that made them and who I got them from.
Probably Ben Williams.Pio Elete Pro 520
Panamax 5400-EX
Sunfire TGP 5
Micro Seiki DD-40 - Lyra-Dorian and Denon DL-160
PS Audio GCPH phono pre
Sunfire CG 200 X 5
Sunfire CG Sig 405 X 5
OPPO BDP-83 SE
SDA SRS 1.2TL Sonicaps and Mills
Ctr CS1000p
Sur - FX1000 x 4
SUB - SVS PB2-Plus
Workkout room:
Sony Bravia XBR- 32-Inch 1080p
Onkyo TX-DS898
GFA 555
Yamaha DVD-S1800BL/SACD
Ft - SDA 1C
Not being used:
RTi 38's -4
RT55i's - 2
RT25i's -2, using other 2 in shop
LSI 15's
CSi40
PSW 404 -
afterburnt wrote: »I do have some silver clad BJC's IC's to play around with on my Marantz/TT system before I resort to tone controls. I have the pure silvers from one of our dearly departed Polkies that I liked in the last set up plus a Schiit phonostage if need be. Forgive me for not remembering who it was that made them and who I got them from.
Probably Ben Williams.
I think so, thanks -
afterburnt wrote: »@erniejade never crossed my mind but I do have a few bad recordings of great music, maybe tone control will make them more...pleasant?
For me it does. Again most of the time they are defeated but on some stuff that I like to kick up the volume on that are not recorded that good, a push of the loudness or a quick turn of a knob helps make them more listenable to me. Granted the type of music is more crank it up and rip the knob off style of music not so much sit and listen to all the details stuff.
The T+A integrated I am using actually has decent implementation of a loudness and tone controls. I have heard some preamps and integrated amps in the past that as soon as I turn the defeat button off or on, even if the controls are flat, I hear a difference as soon as its engaged. If it was a true flat, you should not hear a difference when the defeat button is pushed or not pushed when the bass and treble are set to flat. The Parasound P5 comes to mind and I did mention this in my review of it a few years ago.Klipsch The Nines, Audioquest Thunderbird Interconnect, Innuos Zen MK3 W4S recovery, Revolution Audio Labs USB & Ethernet, Border Patrol SE-I, Audioquest Niagara 5000 & Thunder, Cullen Crossover II PC's. -
afterburnt wrote: »I do have some silver clad BJC's IC's to play around with on my Marantz/TT system before I resort to tone controls. I have the pure silvers from one of our dearly departed Polkies that I liked in the last set up plus a Schiit phonostage if need be. Forgive me for not remembering who it was that made them and who I got them from.
I believe I still have a few sets of Ben's silver IC's if you need more.Klipsch The Nines, Audioquest Thunderbird Interconnect, Innuos Zen MK3 W4S recovery, Revolution Audio Labs USB & Ethernet, Border Patrol SE-I, Audioquest Niagara 5000 & Thunder, Cullen Crossover II PC's. -
...as soon as I turn the defeat button off or on, even if the controls are flat, I hear a difference as soon as its engaged. If it was a true flat, you should not hear a difference when the defeat button is pushed or not pushed when the bass and treble are set to flat....
Brian, love you pal but would like to present an alternate thought.
The nature of the tone control circuit should actually have an effect when engaged even if all controls are flat. That’s why there is a kill button on most preamps/integrateds that do have the tone controls, otherwise there would be no need for the defeat button? -
Joe, I agree and disagree at the same time. If the center was a true flat at 0 and the circuit was designed right, in my opinion you should not be able to tell if the defeat button is on or off at the center flat position. My old McIntosh Integrated amp all 3 McIntosh Preamp's and my old Adcom, GFP565 I have owned in the past if everything was center, I could not tell if the tone defeat was on or off. A good tone control should not add or change anything at center.
It was my understanding the reason for the defeat button was to put it into a direct mode like pure direct in a HT receiver. To take that circuit out of the picture. If that circuit adds something to the sound in the flat position, to me there is a design flaw in that circuit. So I do agree with you, there should not be a need for the defeat if it truly disengaged at 0 or flat.
BTW it was not a knock on the P5. I enjoyed my time with it and I really like the bass management on it for 2 channel and I thought it had a very nice sound to it. I chose it over the Emo I was putting it up against in the same price range.
Klipsch The Nines, Audioquest Thunderbird Interconnect, Innuos Zen MK3 W4S recovery, Revolution Audio Labs USB & Ethernet, Border Patrol SE-I, Audioquest Niagara 5000 & Thunder, Cullen Crossover II PC's. -
Don't have any tone controls.Mojo Audio Illuminati v3>>Quantum Byte w/LMS>>Rpi/PiCoreplayer>> Starlight 7 USB >> Mojo Audio Mystique v2 SE>>ModWright SWL 9.0 SE Signature>>Hafler DH-500 Amp+ (Musical Concepts Fully Modded)>>
SRS 2.3TL (Fully Modded)...Velodyne Optimum 8 subwoofer
1KVA Dreadnought
Marantz SA 8005
Pioneer PLX-1000 Turntable - Shure SC35C/N35X - V15III/VN35HE
Yamaha TX-540 Tuner...Sony BDP-S570
Sony PS4
Separate subpanel with four dedicated 20 amp circuits.
1. Amplification 2. Analog 3. Digital 4. Video
"All THAT IS LOST FROM THE SOURCE IS LOST FOREVER" -
Brian, I totally know it wasn’t a knock at all, and I do see your point.
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afterburnt wrote: »I do have some silver clad BJC's IC's to play around with on my Marantz/TT system before I resort to tone controls. I have the pure silvers from one of our dearly departed Polkies that I liked in the last set up plus a Schiit phonostage if need be. Forgive me for not remembering who it was that made them and who I got them from.
I believe I still have a few sets of Ben's silver IC's if you need more.
@erniejade Thanks! I will let you know.
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afterburnt wrote: »@Moose68Bash have you been around? Good to see you here!
Yes, I'm still around. Just finished about six months of helping my wife take care of our soon-to-be two years old grandson while his parents both worked remotely out of our house. Hence, I haven't had much time to chime in on the Forum. Things are getting looser now that the little guy is back home in NJ.Family Room, Innuos Statement streamer (Roon Core) with Morrow Audio USB cable to McIntosh MC 2700 pre with DC2 Digital Audio Module; AQ Sky XLRs to CAT 600.2 dualmono amp, Morrow Elite Speaker Cables to NOLA Baby Grand Reference Gold 3 speakers. Power source for all components: Silver Circle Audio Pure Power One with dedicated 20 amp circuit to main panel.
Exercise Room, Innuos Streamer via Cat 6 cable connection to PS Audio PerfectWave MkII DAC w/Bridge II, AQ King Cobra RCAs to Perreaux PMF3150 amp (fully restored and upgraded by Jeffrey Jackson, Precision Audio Labs), Supra Rondo 4x2.5 Speaker Cables to SDA 1Cs (Vr3 Mods Xovers and other mods.), Dreadnaught with Supra Rondo 4x2.5 interconnect cables by Vr3 Mods. Power for each component from dedicated 20 amp circuit to main panel, except Innuos Statement powered from Silver Circle Audio Pure Power One.
