New Ford Bronco being released

sucks2beme

Serious offroading is for older vehicles.
Buying a new $60K rig to beat on isn't the best
Idea. But someone will buy one and roll it
Just to post it online.

Jstas

2.3L EcoBoost I4: 270 hp @ 5500 rpm, 310 lb⋅ft @ 3000 rpm

2.7L EcoBoost V6: 325 hp @ 5000 rpm, 400 lb⋅ft @ 2750 rpm

Both are making 50% of peak torque at just off idle (around 1200 RPM). If you're going to go rock crawling or other creeping around the woods, that's what you want. Just like audio, just because you have 325 watts doesn't mean you're using 325 watts all the time.

The "granny gear" isn't a necessity. It's an option aimed squarely at the Jeep Rubicon. The Bronco is going for a chunk of that market where the Jeep is pretty much the only player in the hardcore off-roader game anymore since Nissan stepped out with the discontinuation of the XTerra. The cushier trims of the Bronco are going to eat the FJ Cruiser's lunch because they are better appointed while retaining much of the capability of the burlier Bronco trims and they are doing it for just over half the price of the FJ. But the whole point of a granny gear is that you can run the engine at an RPM where you're not going to overheat it because at a 95:1 ratio, that's an insane amount of torque multiplication on a crazy gear reduction for a consumer-level vehicle and it rolls off the showroom floor with it. There's no aftermarket involved. Also, given how small the EcoBoost packaging is, cooling hasn't been a problem in anything they've shoehorned the little turbo mills in to. Ford's been developing the EcoBoost engines since the mid-90's based on what they learned in CART and F1. They showed them to the world in 2009 and by 2012, they were making close to 1M EcoBoost engines annually across all product lines. By the time the Bronco hits the market, the Gen 2 EcoBoost that it's getting will be about 5 years old and the Gen 3 will likely be showing it's connecting rods in 2021, 2022 as part of high some hybrid designs for Lincoln. Additionally, the EcoBoost engines are based on the Duratec line which has been in production since 1993 and was originally developed in partnership with Porsche (not kidding, look it up, it wasn't Mazda) with cylinder head designs by Cosworth. The original Duratec engines were slated to power not just the Ford Modeo in Europe but also Jaguar's line-up as well as Porsche's entry-level sports cars and crossovers. That's some big names in engine development there with a pedigree that goes back almost 3 decades. That's Ford Windsor V8 levels of history there. I don't think the EcoBoost series of engines has anything to worry about on the reliability side of the coin. Especially since they've won engineering awards year after year after year after year....

Anyway. The Bronco Sport is not the same platform as the Bronco. The Bronco is being built on the Ranger chassis. But the current Ranger chassis is HUGE compared to the old Ranger chassis. Additionally, the current Ranger is roughly 7/8ths the size of the 78-96 F-series based Bronco. So the Bronco may look short and squat but that's because of it's meaty tires. The new Bronco is quite large. It slots between the Ford Edge and the Ford Explorer in size.

The Bronco Sport is based on the Escape. Hell, not even based, it IS an Escape with different sheet metal and a beefier transfer case. The Bronco Sport is still pretty large and about what the size of the original Bronco/Scout was that Doc Hardy is fondly remembering.

I doubt that many of the Broncos will end up as shopping mall warriors because, well, shopping malls are becoming a thing of the past and the Bronco is pretty harsh as cushy rides go. The Bronco Sport seems to be aimed squarely at that market and given that it's newest competition is the new Chevy Blazer, it's certainly a far sight more interesting. The Blazer seems to be what a 10 year would have done to make a Chevy Equinox look more aggressive and that's it. That's pretty much what it is, anyway because that's what the Blazer replaced last year. Nobody really noticed the Equinox and nobody's going to notice the Blazer if it wasn't for the nostalgia around the name plate. Unfortunately for the Blazer, that's all it has going for it. The Bronco combines the quirky, plain good looks of the original with the burly, rough-and-tumble capabilities of the full-sized version. The Bronco's not just selling nostalgia. You park a 2021 Bronco next to a 2021 Blazer and nobody is going to flock to the Blazer to get a better look.

As far as off-roaders go, though, from what I've read so far Ford was serious here and they didn't cut many corners at all. On paper the new Bronco, even in base trim, comes with a ton of stuff that would be optional on other vehicles. It can also be optioned out the wazoo and despite the manual only coming with the 2.3L I4, at 270 horsepower, that's a stout I4. With a curb weight that should be under 4500 pounds, that's a stout combination overall with a pretty good weight balance which is exactly what you want to creep over rocks and bounce up and down trails.

The fact that it comes with a bunch of creature comforts only speaks to the market place as Jeep has been trying to do the same thing with the Wrangler for years. They've been just short of the mark as well.

I dunno, personally, I think it's a sharp lookin' ride in 2 door or 4 door. The Wrangler 4 door is awkward as hell pretty much unusable in the guise because of all the compromises you need to deal with to preserve the Jeep aesthetic. This Bronco, though, looks natural with 4 doors.

I think this is going to be a winner for Ford. Especially since it starts at around $28.5K and if all you're looking for is a fun off-roader to kick around the woods for the weekend, that base model Bronco is a REALLY good value that no other manufacturer can touch at that price.

But, if you want a hardcore off-roader that will also double as a "family car" and do the family thing, that Big Bend trim level at $33,385 is a hell of a value that's REALLY hard to beat in that price category if it can be beat at all. The options from there are insane in capabilities and even value. Only the "first run" special edition tops 60K (reservations are full, already, BTW, so, sold out) and you're pretty much paying for exclusivity. A non-optioned Bronco Wildtrack gives you a Bronco that is pretty much what was raced in the Baja 1000 last year but, has an interior. That starts at $48K and given the options list, it's not going to go that much above it unless you spring for the high dollar aftermarket parts like Fox racing shocks and the bead-lockers and such.

This is going to be a big deal, I think. It's directly addressing an under-served market that has had only the Jeep Wrangler for a LOOOOOOONG time and lots of people who want the "look" are going to go after this despite the capability. That's what's been selling Wranglers for decades anyway.

Jstas

I think my only issue with it is the same issue I have with the Raptor. I see them running around here and I see people taking them off-road but where I live, a desert pre-runner which is what the Raptor is, is a hindrance here. Compact packages like a Jeep Wrangler or an old 4x4 Ranger or Toyota pickup are what does well because of tight trails and sugar sand and mud bogs. Gigantic, heavy offroaders don't do well unless they are big enough to get serious tire under them to distribute weight, like you can do with a lifted full-sized pickup. The Raptor can get there but the problem is...it's over 8 feet wide. Doesn't do well on what amounts to old wagon tracks or 7 foot wide fire breaks through the Pine Barrens or running down the beach at the shore. The Bronco can do well in stuff like that but the more hardcore trims for off-roading packages? They are not geared for the terrain in the Northeast. They're kind of a waste here. They will do well in heavy mountain stuff like the Rockies in Utah and Colorado or blasting across deserts in Nevada, California and the Southwest. They'll even do ok in Appalachia where the mountains are more rolling and even unimproved roads are still pretty stable. But, loose rock trails in Maine, PA and New York or New Hampshire/Vermont mud or NJ Sugar Sand and Cedar Bogs, the Bronco might struggle and be more of a hardship than a help. I guess it remains to be seen, though. So I'll wait to pass judgement.

In the mean time, though, sure does look sharp!

Hell, I'm seriously considering one! A Big Bend with a few options checked (or the Sasquatch package) and that 7 speed manual with the I4 looks really capable without being an abusive ride. What's got me torn is I have a special place in my cold, lump of coal I call a heart for Rangers. I'd love to get one. But what I really need is a full-sized truck that can handle more than my Lightning. Additionally, I absolutely adore my Lincoln and I don't know that I would want to part with it. So I will have to wait until I can put **** in cloth/leather and see the Bronco for myself before I go deciding on if I am getting one or not. It certainly won't be the Wildtrack because I don't need that. But I would be good with a Big Bend trim and a bunch of options boxes checked. But I'm going to have to wait a year and a half to find out, anyway, so meh. Maybe I buy a new truck instead and wait for a Bronco to come off of lease as a CPO. By then one of the kids will be ready to start driving and a 17 year old Lincoln might be a swank ride for them?

Jetmaker737

I gotta say, jstas, you certainly do your research! You almost got me sold.

Mikey081057

They look like fun I am just leery of first year of anything....

maxward

Yes, indeed. Tell us what you really think. Good job and I agree with most of your points. I kind of like them both, though the Sport model is probably best suited to most buyers.

F1nut

Gerres26 wrote: »

I believe most of the ford ecoboost motors actually make max torque at or even under 3000 rpm...they spoil up very quickly.

That would make for a good off road power plant.

motorstereo

My belief is Ford has a winner in the Bronco as well. First hand experience tells me that little 2.3 turbo doesn't have to spin up to make a usable amount of torque. I've been driving a hilly 40 mile commute with my new 2.3 turbo Ranger and it will easily get up to speed quickly from a dead stop going up a steep grade at very low rpms. The part that I like best is it's also getting 26 mpg with only 450 miles on the clock.

Knock on wood I've had zero problems with small turbo charged motors and also have one in my 2011 Sonata. One of the tests Hyundai ran on their small turbos was to run it wfo for 2 weeks straight which it did without issue. That's tough duty even for a naturally aspirated motor but it does show the reliability of the modern turbo.

displayname

Looking at photos, I think the Bronco is stunning, but I just don't know if I could commit to one.
First off, it's huge. That does have a certain cool factor about it, and it will likely beat out the Wranglers for comfort as a result. But I think it's bigger than I'd want as a daily driver in the city. I'd need to test drive to confirm, but there are certain vehicles (like the H1 Hummer and Tahoe) that I've driven in city traffic and I personally found to be too much effort to navigate crowded highways.

I also previously owned a Ford Edge that left a very bad taste in my mouth. It started to fall apart just days after falling outside of the warranty. I had multiple instances where the engine would just cut off on the highway going around 70 mph. I heard multiple reports of other Fords from the same year doing the same thing. One day I got in the car and the driver door would not latch. I had to hold the door closed by hand through traffic to get it to the shop. After a few months I traded it in just to rid of the issues.

Ford is going to sell a boat load of these, and I'll likely still be tempted by the style and specs. But the Bronco has a lot to over come to make me seriously consider it vs a Wrangler or 4Runner. Hopefully the new competition pushes Wrangler and 4Runner to offer cool updates and more factory options. Especially if that V8 Wrangler can actually hit the market before the Bronco does.

Emlyn

Since auto makers share platforms they develop with more than one vehicle these days, the rumor is the chassis and drivetrain from the Bronco will also be used next year for a new Ford Ranger. Now Ford has stopped pouring money into sedan development and tooling, they have more billions to put into truck and utility vehicle development.

Mikey081057

Is the Jeep gittin' a Hemi?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0THMwP_MXE

displayname

Mikey081057 wrote: »

Is the Jeep gittin' a Hemi?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0THMwP_MXE

Technically still a concept, but it looks like it.
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a33296307/jeep-wrangler-v-8-rubicon-392-concept-revealed/

jeremymarcinko

Good to know that the Bronco’s torque curve gets into it right off idle. I definitely want one, but too bad there’s no 3rd row option like the 4Runner. I can’t get away with only having 5 seats.

Mikey081057

jeremymarcinko wrote: »

Good to know that the Bronco’s torque curve gets into it right off idle. I definitely want one, but too bad there’s no 3rd row option like the 4Runner. I can’t get away with only having 5 seats.

I have to admit the Explorer is pretty nice for that...But I would still prefer the 4Runner for reliability and value.

jeremymarcinko

Mikey081057 wrote: »

jeremymarcinko wrote: »

Good to know that the Bronco’s torque curve gets into it right off idle. I definitely want one, but too bad there’s no 3rd row option like the 4Runner. I can’t get away with only having 5 seats.

I have to admit the Explorer is pretty nice for that...But I would still prefer the 4Runner for reliability and value.

Yeah I love my 4Runner, but I couldn’t get a TRD model with the third row either. I suppose I need extra seats more than a diff lock anyway. I really want a Jeep or now a Bronco with 3rows. First world problems

Mikey081057

jeremymarcinko wrote: »

Mikey081057 wrote: »

jeremymarcinko wrote: »

Good to know that the Bronco’s torque curve gets into it right off idle. I definitely want one, but too bad there’s no 3rd row option like the 4Runner. I can’t get away with only having 5 seats.

I have to admit the Explorer is pretty nice for that...But I would still prefer the 4Runner for reliability and value.

Yeah I love my 4Runner, but I couldn’t get a TRD model with the third row either. I suppose I need extra seats more than a diff lock anyway. I really want a Jeep or now a Bronco with 3rows. First world problems

Did you look at the Lexus GX 460? All the reliability of a Toyota in a Lexus wrapper.... I had a GX470 and it was a great vehicle.... I wish I kept it

Jstas

Emlyn wrote: »

Since auto makers share platforms they develop with more than one vehicle these days, the rumor is the chassis and drivetrain from the Bronco will also be used next year for a new Ford Ranger. Now Ford has stopped pouring money into sedan development and tooling, they have more billions to put into truck and utility vehicle development.

Your rumors are backwards.

The Bronco is based on the current Ford Ranger chassis which is known as the "T6" chassis and it's been in production since 2010 as a 2011 model everywhere else but North America.

The drivetrain is also sourced directly from the Ranger. There's a strong possibility that the next Ranger redesign will include the 4 wheel drive system options with locking diffs and such from the higher end Broncos as options but right now, the Bronco is based on the Ranger and likely will be for the foreseeable future. Which is a good thing because rumors abounded that the new Bronco was going to be based on the Explorer (Ford CD6 platform) or the Endeavor/Everest which while also based on the Ranger is an absolute snoozefest of a 2-box SUV that would have been just another SUV on the market. The only bright spot is the Endeavour/Everest comes with diesel engine options that we'd likely never see here.


The Bronco Sport is built on Ford's C2 platform which underpins the Ford Focus, Ford Kuga, Ford Escape and Lincoln Corsair. It also shares it's engines with the Escape.

1.5 L I3 making 181 hp
2.0 L I4 making 245 hp

jeremymarcinko

So I bet we can blame the Bronco for the U.S. not getting the Ranger Raptors.

Jstas

jeremymarcinko wrote: »

So I bet we can blame the Bronco for the U.S. not getting the Ranger Raptors.

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a16740549/2019-ford-ranger-raptor-officially-unveiled-news/

https://www.caranddriver.com/ford/ranger-raptor

It's coming. Announcements probably next year after the Bronco officially goes on sale. It's likely going to use the same underpinnings as the Bronco Wildtrack. Hence the reason my response to Emlyn about future options packages using the Bronco "Sasquatch Package" options. I know the 2.7L Nano EcoBoost at 325 HP with twin turbos is what the Bronco and Ranger both have as an option. However, there's a 3.0L Nano EcoBoost that ranges from 350 HP in the Lincoln MKZ to 495 HP in the Lincoln Aviator. It's also the 400 HP mill in the Ford Edge ST. It's physically the same package as the 2.7L Nano EcoBoost that's in the Ranger now so it will likely be the Ranger Raptor engine here in the 400 HP guise. But even if they stick with the 2.7L that's good for 350-360 HP in current forms available. Doesn't mean they can lean on it more to get an extra 30-40 horses out of it. The nice thing about the EcoBoost engines, though, is that if they want to make more power they don't have to punch out bores and increase stroke which requires tooling changes. If they want to go from 260 HP in a 2.7L turbocharged V6 to 495 HP in that same V6, they have to change some programming around the fuel system, put bigger injectors and fuel pump in and then turn up the wick on the boost controller. All of that has little to no production lead time. Injectors and fuel pumps are outsourced to suppliers and a simple part swap on the assembly line. The rest is software updates which can be done pretty much anywhere. Hell, the SYNC system in the 2017 Escape we have updates itself over the home wi-fi while it's parked in the garage. So yeah, making a hotter engine with a turbocharger is a breeze. As long as the engine is design to handle it. But they squeezed 650 HP out of a 3.5L EcoBoost for the Ford GT so there's that.

Europe's not getting the Bronco as far as I know so Ford wanted to release that here first. A Ranger Raptor is a neat idea but it's not a new Bronco. Wouldn't want a 400 HP, high flying Ranger to steal the Bronco's thunder. That's just a bad marketing idea.

pitdogg2

I really dig the Raptors they are bada$$

sucks2beme

3rd row seating in a Bronco?
That's just wrong.
Kind of like a 4 door Porsche.
What's next, a Corvette with a pickup bed?

Mikey081057

displayname

I think in the not to distance future, we'll see a Raptor Bronco. Let them ride out this hype and sales/production cycle, but once things slow down, announce new engines and a Raptor version to bring the second wave of hype in. Might be a couple years though.

Mikey081057

But not a Raptor Pinto... They are going to call the AWD bi-turbo V6 version of that the En Fuego. And it will burn regular or premium fuel!

Mikey081057

displayname wrote: »

Mikey081057 wrote: »

Is the Jeep gittin' a Hemi?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0THMwP_MXE

Technically still a concept, but it looks like it.
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a33296307/jeep-wrangler-v-8-rubicon-392-concept-revealed/

I hope they engineer it correctly and not just stick a V8 in... Don't want to hear one of those stories that you have to disconnect the transmission and transfer case and lift the engine to change the spark plugs.

audioluvr

I'm a die-hard Jeep fan. I own 2 currently and many in the past. The only Jeep worthy the name since Fiat takeover, IMHO, is the Wrangler line. That Bronco will pick up a lot of the non- Wrangler Jeep fans because the Feeps just don't look cool any more. They look like every other city slicker SUV not built for off road durability.

pitdogg2

Mikey081057 wrote: »

displayname wrote: »

Mikey081057 wrote: »

Is the Jeep gittin' a Hemi?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0THMwP_MXE

Technically still a concept, but it looks like it.
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a33296307/jeep-wrangler-v-8-rubicon-392-concept-revealed/

I hope they engineer it correctly and not just stick a V8 in... Don't want to hear one of those stories that you have to disconnect the transmission and transfer case and lift the engine to change the spark plugs.

can you say Boss 429

Mikey081057

Mikey081057 wrote: »

Chevy had the El Camino

This is the El Corvetto

Mikey081057

Check the prices on these

https://classics.autotrader.com/classic-cars-for-sale/1976-toyota-land_cruiser-for-sale

sucks2beme

Back in 1977 I saw a late 60's corvette that was made into a
flatbed in the back. A couple of the guys were planning a homicide.
It was the worst hack job you could imagine. Right up there
with the Trans Am with green metal flake wheels and curb feelers.