Consensus on Full Sized Pickup Trucks

Mikey081057

Toyota Tundra

I can only speak of my experience with Toyota/Lexus vs Chevrolet...Chevy never recognized the brake failure mentioned above as "recall" so how do those things impact their recall stats? Were there others? I had an '87 1/2 IROC Z that was a total piece of carp.... T-Tops leaked from day 1 until the day I sold it... and the car's value was carp too....

Mikey081057

Toyota Tundra

https://www.digitaltrends.com/cars/most-reliable-cars/

daddyjt

Chevy/GMC

I hear you - ask me about my experience with head gaskets on the 6.0l powerstroke... Ford knew there was an issue with the design, yet I still got to pay the $6,000 repair bill.... haven’t bought a Ford since.

motorhead43026

Toyota Tundra

daddyjt wrote: »

Mikey081057 wrote: »

That would rule out GM for me... I have had app 1M miles on Toyota/Lexus vehicles with out any troubles at all... No recalls No in or out of warranty failures. My last GM vehicle might have been my last. I am between Ford and Toyota. The Ford is expensive but the Tundra is a gas guzzler... $8000 buys a lot of gas tho...

Not that it will (or should) factor in to your decision making, but In the interest of full disclosure - On a “per vehicle sold” basis, Toyota actually has quite a bit higher recall rate than GM...

One reason being GM will do anything in their power not to recall. They were still exempted in 2019 recalling airbags. Recalls don’t mean a product is of subpar quality. It is in many cases the result of the manufacture volunteering to repair defects that could adversely affect their brand.

treitz3

Chevy/GMC

Guys, every manufacturer has their own issues. No manufacturer is immune. Please tell me we are not going down the "mine is bigger/better than yours" track...

Tom

nooshinjohn

Chevy/GMC

Not a truck, but my Jag had a known suspension issue that would cause one of the air struts to fail, sometimes while driving. After spending 4 k and finding out they wanted still more money to fix, I shitcanned the entire system in favor of coil-overs and never had a single issue with the car since. Manufacturers will not step up u til a class action suit and/or federal regulators force them to, I don't care what the brand is.

tratliff

Toyota Tundra

This reminds me of a speaker cable discussion.

Everyone has opinions, including me, but nothing will ever come of the results. I voted but won’t discuss what my choice was.

Buy what you want and what you like. No matter what happens you will be able to find documentation to support your decision.

Good luck in your purchase.

Edit: Crap. Didn’t know my choice would be shown! But it is the best choice. If you question that just ask.

daddyjt

Chevy/GMC

Sincere apologies if I ruffled feathers -

I firmly believe the best indicator of longevity is how you take care of whatever you buy - regular oil and filter changes with high quality synthetic oil, air filter changes, and warm-up in sever cold weather.

Follow your heart, and buy what appeals to you... but you did ask

jeremymarcinko

Chevy/GMC

I think the new Chevy truck is leaps and bounds better than the last model. Lots of tech and looks great.

displayname

Chevy/GMC

Jstas wrote: »

That's kind of a stretch. I mean, I see what they are trying to do but they are using the name/date from a Spanish ranch to show how "American" their pickup truck is? I mean, it's not even a "Texas ranch" since it was created before even the idea of the Republic of Texas was around. I mean, in 1794, it was even called Spanish Texas and that's after it was called French Texas and before it was called Mexican Texas which was before it was the Republic of Texas and way before it was the State of Texas.

Whatever.

Silly marketers.

Pay attention to your history classes, kids. They're important.

I digress.

Back to your regularly scheduled content.

I had the same gut reaction. "Honoring" a ranch seems like a real stretch when they literally converted the ranch into a giant factory that produces low efficiency vehicles, lol. Dancing on a grave was one of the things that came to mind for me.

BUT - the truck does look good. Solid competition for the King Ranch and others I'm probably not familiar with.

gmcman

Chevy/GMC

Based on your criteria, I would have a hard time between the Tundra and the Silverado LTZ 5.3. I think once you ride in the Tundra, you will likely find the Silverado more refined in highway comfort. I haven't been in a 2020 Tundra but basing off a few years ago.

mrbiron

Chevy/GMC

Subaru Baja is the most versatile pickup truck around...

maxward

And before that, the Subaru Brat!

mhardy6647

Toyota Tundra

It'd be cool to have a vintage Brat

Viking64

mhardy6647 wrote: »

It'd be cool to have a vintage Brat

Are you offering yourself, Mark?

daddyjt

Chevy/GMC

You could go in a different direction all together.... (internet photo, no affiliation)

gmcman

Chevy/GMC

@Mikey081057 I know you don't have Dodge on your list, neither did I last week but figured I would take a look.

I only wanted to get eyes on the interior, I ended up on a test drive that I asked for, wasn't pursuaded as I was on my way to work.

FWIW, I would like to give you a push in that direction just to take a look...unless of course you have no desire for a Mopar.

Disclaimer. This is for the Laramie or Limited

The Laramie changed my thinking and IMO GM, Ford, or Toyota cannot compare to the interior quality of the Ram.

I was dead set on a 1500 Silverado 6.2 until I sat in the Laramie crew cab. The Limited was too much of a stretch price wise for my needs.

The Standard V6 with the 8 speed is a nice match. Since you're not cconcerned about heavy towing may be worth a look if you don't want the hemi.

All I'm saying is I've been a GM person my whole life, my truck reservation changed once I drove and sat in the Ram.

treitz3

Chevy/GMC

That is the ONLY car I would ever trade my truck in for. I absolutely love those things! That one looks to be minty...

Tom

nooshinjohn

Chevy/GMC

anonymouse wrote: »

gmcman wrote: »

All I'm saying is I've been a GM person my whole life, my truck reservation changed once I drove and sat in the Ram.

How is the wind and engine noise in the new Ram cabs?

I have driven MANY of them as a service advisor/manager... they are exceptionally quiet, and comfortable for a long haul or just knocking around the house. The only one we had issues with was one that had the fully automatic load level system...

Mikey081057

Toyota Tundra

Why I don't like turbos...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YV7UY9XC5bg

mhardy6647

Toyota Tundra

Turbos -- small yet complicated, expensive, mission critical things that are built with high precision and spin very, very fast.

What could possibly go wrong?

Mikey081057

Toyota Tundra

Exactly!

mhardy6647

Toyota Tundra

I know in the 80s and 90s the turbochargers on (e.g.) Saabs were notorious for self-immolating, and then the engine would ingest the little bits and shreds of the remains, with comical* and expensive results.

________________
* my use of this adjective is based solely on having listened to far too many episodes of Cah Tahk Car Talk over the ages.

gmcman

Chevy/GMC

Many turbos fail from not using good synthetic oil and changing regularly.

Kex

I wouldn’t hesitate to buy a turbo. There are literally millions in use every day, some quite old. How many really fail? The added benefits are significant.

In any case, the Tundra does seem to fit the OP’s requirements, but it is also a very old truck, with very old technology compared to the competition. Although I really appreciate my older vehicles, which continue to perform admirably (all three of them!), I would be extremely disappointed if a new vehicle bought today didn’t offer significantly better capabilities.

I’m not a Ford fan, usually, but the 2021 F-150, unveiled today, would seem to leave the competition in the dust in the near term, and should be ideally suited for the casual truck driver with light duty needs.

sucks2beme

I wouldn't base a vehicle buy on tech toys. Especially a truck.
But each to their own. After I retire in the next couple of years
I'll be looking for one. I park in too many tight spots to
drive one for work. I get paid mileage to drive around, so MPG is a factor as well.
My co-worker has a Chevy Colorado he likes a lot. I drive one a few years ago and
liked it just fine.

mhardy6647

Toyota Tundra

sucks2beme wrote: »

I wouldn't base a vehicle buy on tech toys. Especially a truck.
...

That's a big 10-4 (in my book, at any rate).
Trucks are for those days when you need a bunch of 8 foot 2 x 10s. Don't need a 12" touch screen for that.

Mikey081057

Toyota Tundra

Toyota seems to be always lagging in bells and whistles but the resale value is always higher... coincidence? or just better engineered.I had a couple of "Toyoda" trucks and FourRunners as well as a few Lexus vehicles (GX470 and GS 350 AWD) and was always pleasantly surprised at the resale value, reliability and overall quality of the vehicles...So the Tundra gets beat up for lacking "technology" and being due for a "design update" which really has nothing to do with reliability and overall quality. What "tech" features is it lacking for y'all as I really don't see something that I need that is missing?

I do like the Ford with the V8 too but comparatively costs more.

I am listening for info to come out on the '21 models to see what's new and maybe to get a deal on a leftover.

Kex

Any truck available today will do the job intended (which in this case, like the vast majority of trucks today, seems to be more about driving than real hauling or heavy work). So the choice is more subjective.

Good resale value is reassuring, but since our truck is 26 years old, it’s not always a priority for those who keep their truck more than ten years (people leave notes on our truck asking if we’ll sell it to them). Reliability is also important. From our community of horse haulers (anywhere from a hundred miles to over a thousand), there is no real consensus on which brand is least likely to leave you on the side of the road - which spirited horse owners dread, because horses are fickle beasts, and if they get stressed, could even die from being stuck in a trailer on the side the freeway for too long.. Ford and GMC or Chevrolet are the most popular, by far. RAM is also liked by some. (No Toyotas at all, if anyone is wondering, because they don’t have the specifications required for horse hauling, but that’s not a consideration here). Most of these vehicles are kept for about 200,000 miles, and then replaced.

Previous stuff that I read would suggest the RAM had the best interior of all the current generation, although I preferred the look of the interior of that Tundra pic you posted earlier in cognac brown. The interior is where one spends most of one’s time in any vehicle and the 2021 F-150 has a much better interior than the 2020 from the photos. I hated the 2020 interior, so subjectively, I would never have bought one. Some of the newer technology makes the vehicle nicer to drive, and a more comfortable place to be, especially for longer drives. Some of it might be just bling. When I compare the interiors of newer models compared to my older stuff, I would never go back.

Jstas

mhardy6647 wrote: »

sucks2beme wrote: »

I wouldn't base a vehicle buy on tech toys. Especially a truck.
...

That's a big 10-4 (in my book, at any rate).
Trucks are for those days when you need a bunch of 8 foot 2 x 10s. Don't need a 12" touch screen for that.

Depends on what you're doing with the truck. Not all trucks are work trucks or lumber yard haulers. If you're towing something long distances like a boat or a camper or a horse trailer or a race car trailer or something of the sort, having the navigation and all the trailer monitoring stuff as well as comfortable seats can be a big benefit.

I've driven a basic truck very long distances (1200 mile round trips) and it wears on you after a while what with the road noise, rough ride and less than desirable vinyl bench seats. I would have much preferred a more car like interior on those runs instead.


And the turbo thing...the turbos that had the problems on Saabs...that was 30-40 years ago, folks. 30-40 years. The turbos on the Saabs died early deaths because of not only design issues centered around inadequate cooling and oiling but really loose tolerances for something that is spinning 9,000-15,000 RPM. Additionally, the engine management technology was not nearly good enough to manage the fuel mapping for a turbocharged engine. Worse yet, many were carbureted engines and that tech was no where near good enough to properly meter fuel through a turbo's operating range. Especially as fuel demands change the faster the turbo spins. A single set of jets cannot adapt to that so you either run super rich when not under boost which blows a bunch of soot into the turbo housing or you run lean at the top end of the boost and cause severe problems due to overheating. Modern fuel injection has fixed all of that. Turbo tech and mass machining capabilities are light years beyond where they were in the early to mid 80's. Turbos are not as fragile as they used to be. Lighten up and step out of the past already.

Also, the Toyota resale vs Ford/GM/Dodge is due solely to quantity and demand. Toyota has this undeserved reputation for being well engineered and really reliable because of the same dated mentality that makes people equate 40 year old turbo technology with a modern turbo setup. It's all hype and dated/misinformation. Maybe in the 80's it was different but from about 1992-1993 to present, it's not true anymore and the rest of the truck manufacturers have stepped up their game and pretty much closed the gap. Mainly because Toyota, Nissan, Mazda and Isuzu were eating their lunch and they HAD to or they would have been out of business.

Toyotas have higher resale value because for every Toyota out there, there's 10 Fords and 10 Chevies. Toyota's error rate is actually higher than Ford or Chevy, statistics show it and statistics also show that the customers of Toyota are more willing to overlook small issues like shoddy window buttons or poorly wearing seat upholstery because of the idea that the Toyota is better, no matter what. Whereas those same people give damning marks to Dodge, Chevy and Ford for similar problems. But, because of this biased hype surrounding Toyota and the fact that there's a tenth of the Toyota trucks out there as Ford or GM or Dodge, supply is low and demand is high. So of course people are going to pay a higher price for a used Toyota. I mean, if you have 30 used trucks on your used car lot, statistics say that you're likely to have 10 Fords, 12 GMs, 5 Dodges and 3 Toyotas in that mix. Maybe a Nissan and only 11 GMs. If you get 20 customers coming and 8 want GMs, 5 want Fords, 2 want Dodges and 5 want Toyotas, you're going to have a price war on your Toyotas and 5 Fords, 3 Dodges, 3 GMs and a Nissan that didn't sell unless a Toyota shopper or two decided to get one of the others instead.

The false hype breeds a seller's market which keeps resale high. Yet statistically, Toyotas are no better than the Fords, Dodges or GMs. In fact, the statistical differences are so small between those 4 that due to the sheer numbers of Fords out there, alone, no including GM, the differences end up being the equivalent of a margin of error. Include the GM and Dodge production numbers and Toyota's total production is a margin of error while the overall production error rates across all trucks, not just a single manufacturer, is so small that it's pretty much a rounding error. So they are all on pretty much even ground. So basically, it comes down to human prejudices and brand loyalty. Has nothing to do with actual engineering, quality, longevity or statistics.

Except Nissan. The Frontier makes up for the Titan a bunch but the Titan has abysmally poor reliability and quality marks that are so bad that despite the Frontier being an indestructible vehicle and out selling the Titan almost 3 to 1, it can't overcome the Titan's poor marks. Maybe that's changed recently but with all the issues that Nissan has had, especially with the Renault/Peugeot relationship, I don't think it's changed much in the last 10 years.