Bridge Plates vs Speaker Wire
Markardi
Posts: 10
I've seen a couple discussions recently where people were announcing improved audio quality from just replacing the bridge clips on the 5 way binding posts with 12 AWG speaker wire. This is not regarding bi-wiring, just short jumpers between posts.
I was a little confused by this as the cross sectional area of the clips seemed larger than 12 AWG wire so I measured it out.
Bridge Clips: Thickness = 0.63mm, Width=14mm A=TxW=8.8mm^2
12AWG: Diameter = 2.05mm A= Pi x r^2 = 3.14mm^2
As the clips are almost 3x more area, would that not mean the clips could handle more current by providing less resistance?
Could it have something to do with the quality of the clips as I don't know what they're made of. Solid something, or a less ideal metal that's been plated?
Just wanted to get some input from here in case someone has done it, or maybe I'm missing something, or maybe other brand speakers come with bad clips?
I was a little confused by this as the cross sectional area of the clips seemed larger than 12 AWG wire so I measured it out.
Bridge Clips: Thickness = 0.63mm, Width=14mm A=TxW=8.8mm^2
12AWG: Diameter = 2.05mm A= Pi x r^2 = 3.14mm^2
As the clips are almost 3x more area, would that not mean the clips could handle more current by providing less resistance?
Could it have something to do with the quality of the clips as I don't know what they're made of. Solid something, or a less ideal metal that's been plated?
Just wanted to get some input from here in case someone has done it, or maybe I'm missing something, or maybe other brand speakers come with bad clips?
Comments
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The plate jumpers are gold plated brass. Jumpers made from speaker cable will be copper or silver. Both have better conductivity than brass. That said, generic 12 gauge leaves a lot of the table compared to high end speaker cable.
Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
The usual advice is “replace stock jumpers with good quality wire”.
Speaker wire is a topic that will get passionate arguments. One will be it makes no difference, wire is wire. The other just the opposite is that wire can make a huge difference.
It isn’t just the AWG of wire, it’s the materials and the manufacturing process also.
I personally removed the jumper plates from all of my RTI A speakers and heard a difference, but again that’s me. -
Knowing that the bridge clips are made of gold plated brass is a significant factor. Brass, despite being a copper alloy, is a lot less conductive than copper so I'm glad I asked.
It can even be shown with calculations that 12AWG or better has less resistance than the stock clips.
Resistivity of Brass is usually between 6 ~ 9x10^-8 where as Copper is 1.7x10^-8. This is a material property with units of Ohm Meters.
Resistance of a wire can be calculated as R=Resistivity x (Length of wire/Cross sectional area).
Resistance of the clips at the low end (6x10^-8) = 0.000341 and at the high end (9x10^-8) = 0.000511. The gold plating is essentially insignificant.
Resistance of a 12AWG copper wire with 50mm length = 0.000258
Even if you increase the length of wire to 60mm, R=0.000309.
So yes, those of you who claim to have improved audio quality, I believe you, you've even got some math to back it up.
For reference, I use the Monoprice 12AWG oxygen-free copper speaker wire for all the runs to my RTi A speakers. I will certainly try replacing the clips with wire.
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What about these ?
Came standard on my Salks ....
Bare copper , Cardas....
Bk
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As cheap as speaker wire is especially bulk I don't know why they would even use those brass jumpers anymore. Higher end speakers even polk has been using speaker wire jumper over the brass ones.
It's a super cheap easy upgrade that will yield very small but noticeable gains.Dan
My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time. -
We I changed the brass jumpers on my S60's I did one and didn't tell the kids who use my system as much as I do. My oldest came to me the next day asking what I changed. So I did the other.When I was a kid my parents told me to turn it down. Now I'm an adult and my kids tell me to turn it down.
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12 ga isn’t necessary for some two way speakers - eg RTi 4/6 or RTi A1/3. The jumper connects the tweeter. If it connects the midrange/upper bass... ...yeah.
Regardless you should use something better than coat hanger for same - you get what you pay for 😊
TonySamsung 60" UN60ES6100 LED Outlaw Audio 976 Pre/Pro Samsung BDP, Amazon Firestick, Phillips CD Changer Canare 14 ga - LCR tweeters inside*; Ctr Ch outside BJC 10 ga - LCR mids, inside* & out 8 ga Powerline: LR woofers, inside* & out *soldered LR: Tri-amped RTi A7 w/Rotels. Woofers - 980BX; Tweets & “Plugged*” Mids - 981, connected w/MP Premiere ICs Ctr Ch: Rotel RB981 -> Bi-amped CSi A6 Surrounds: Premiere ICs ->Rotel 981 -> AR 12 ga -> RTi A3. 5 Subs: Sunfire True SW Signature -> LFE & Ctr Ch; 4 Audio Pro Evidence @ the “Corners”. Power Conditioning & Distribution: 4 dedicated 20A feeds; APC H15; 5 Furman Miniport 20s *Xschop's handy work -
You can buy flat copper buss bar and drill it for bridges. I can’t imagine a better solution. I’d be surprised and impressed if you could hear the difference, but you never know. I’ve known people that pick up on some stuff I can’t begin to hear.
I suppose this is obvious, but it’s best to connect your speaker cable to the ”lower” binding post so the factory provided bridge carries just the minuscule tweeter current.The world is full of answers, some are right and some are wrong. - Neil Young -
. I suppose this is obvious, but it’s best to connect your speaker cable to the ”lower” binding post so the factory provided bridge carries just the minuscule tweeter current.
It all goes through the crossover before it goes to the tweeters so it really doesn't matter top or bottom. Some actually fund benefits in diagonal connection. That is were one cable is in the lower and one is in the top binding post. -
. I suppose this is obvious, but it’s best to connect your speaker cable to the ”lower” binding post so the factory provided bridge carries just the minuscule tweeter current.
It all goes through the crossover before it goes to the tweeters so it really doesn't matter top or bottom. Some actually find benefits in diagonal connection. That is were one cable is in the lower (red or black)and one is in the top binding post(red or black). Still using plates or short piece of cable (which I feel is better than plates)
Fixed it.
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I think keeping the connection as short as possible to the largest driver best serves your soundSamsung 60" UN60ES6100 LED Outlaw Audio 976 Pre/Pro Samsung BDP, Amazon Firestick, Phillips CD Changer Canare 14 ga - LCR tweeters inside*; Ctr Ch outside BJC 10 ga - LCR mids, inside* & out 8 ga Powerline: LR woofers, inside* & out *soldered LR: Tri-amped RTi A7 w/Rotels. Woofers - 980BX; Tweets & “Plugged*” Mids - 981, connected w/MP Premiere ICs Ctr Ch: Rotel RB981 -> Bi-amped CSi A6 Surrounds: Premiere ICs ->Rotel 981 -> AR 12 ga -> RTi A3. 5 Subs: Sunfire True SW Signature -> LFE & Ctr Ch; 4 Audio Pro Evidence @ the “Corners”. Power Conditioning & Distribution: 4 dedicated 20A feeds; APC H15; 5 Furman Miniport 20s *Xschop's handy work
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I would argue that most musical nuances are in the uppermid/treble region. So connection to the tweeter terminals is best.
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Top or bottom posts, I can't see where it makes a damn bit of difference if one is using the same speaker cable for the jumpers.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
Polk rocks. Well I think it is about the OCD factor, but, soft flexible cables is best. And pretty cable is pretty, as well flat copper speaker bridges are easier then a short wire of any color. But, then again, tighten able banana connectors on a short wire, for a bridge is cool too. But, the point is, easy, tight, and pretty.
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Something out of a dream?
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Is this another one of those you can only pick two questions.
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What is happening here....where am I?
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speaking of wire -- here's a fun discussion
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/solid-core-wiring.28562/ -
mhardy6647 wrote: »speaking of wire -- here's a fun discussion
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/solid-core-wiring.28562/
guess they hadn't heard of Audioquest ? -
mhardy6647 wrote: »speaking of wire -- here's a fun discussion
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/solid-core-wiring.28562/
guess they hadn't heard of Audioquest ?
There was a brief, early mention of AQ, actually.
That poor guy picked the wrong forum/group of folks to proselytize to.
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Here’s a basic question. I have a Marantz 2230 receiver/amp with A&B speaker selections. I have a choice of subwoofers. A Polk Audio PSW 10 or Definitive Technology Pro 800. My bookshelf speakers are Polk Audio RTi A1 running off the A connectors. -robably upper connectors?
To add a subwoofer I want to try the advice from Paul at PS Audio. Use a jumper speaker wire from the A speakers connection to the subwoofer aka parallel connection. (That way I am not splitting the power output between A&B. Right?)
I think I can run the A speaker output wire from the Marantz to the upper connectors on my Polk RTi A1 speakers and the subwoofer jumpers from the lower speaker connectors to the DT pro800 SW as long as the bridge connector is in place?
Am I right? Comments appreciated. New to the forum. Thx. -
(That way I am not splitting the power output between A&B. Right?)
No, the two subs in question are powered by their own amplifier.
Do it this way.
Receiver A outputs to speakers
Receiver B outputs to sub
Select A & B on receiver
Adjust sub settings to your liking, sit back and enjoy the music.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
That’s what I thought and intended to do.
Until I saw Paul’s video on PS stereos on hooking up a sub to vintage amp/receivers. He seems knowledgeable and suggested A selector output to speakers and speakers output to sub. All on one circuit?
Don’t know why? But he was a little negative on using A&B outputs from amp? So I got the bright idea about using the lower lugs on the Polks to send signal to sub as the two sets of connections on the speakers are bridged?
Probably over thinking it?
I’ll probably go the easy route and hook it up as u suggested. Thx. -
I'd listen to Jesse before I listened to Paul.
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Also thx for info on the powered sub. That did not occur to me. So that makes me feel better about using both A&B.
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Yep, all it's really doing is picking up the music signal.
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(That way I am not splitting the power output between A&B. Right?)
No, the two subs in question are powered by their own amplifier.
Do it this way.
Receiver A outputs to speakers
Receiver B outputs to sub
Select A & B on receiver
Adjust sub settings to your liking, sit back and enjoy the music.
2 Channel
Polk 1.2tl's Modded with dreadnought
Musical Fidelity M6Si
North Star Intenso Dac
Auralic Aries Mini Streamer
Oppo 103
Pangea PC
Wireworld Equinox 7 interconnects
Wireworld Equinox 7 Speaker Cables and Jumpers
Backups 2.3tl, Crs+ pin/blade with stands.Monitor 5 peerless,Monitor 4 peerless,Polk R200,McCormack Dna 0.5 Deluxe McCormack Dna 1,Dared Sl 2000A,Dayens Ampino Rogue Magnum 66 pre -
I’ve been running my Marantz 2238B like this for a couple of years now with no issues..2 Channel
Polk 1.2tl's Modded with dreadnought
Musical Fidelity M6Si
North Star Intenso Dac
Auralic Aries Mini Streamer
Oppo 103
Pangea PC
Wireworld Equinox 7 interconnects
Wireworld Equinox 7 Speaker Cables and Jumpers
Backups 2.3tl, Crs+ pin/blade with stands.Monitor 5 peerless,Monitor 4 peerless,Polk R200,McCormack Dna 0.5 Deluxe McCormack Dna 1,Dared Sl 2000A,Dayens Ampino Rogue Magnum 66 pre
