Cables.

xsmi

If you don’t believe, that’s fine, if you do, that’s fine too. This is just a video that I found on the subject, that is like to share. What I WOULD like to get commentary on though, is the science. Do we have electrical engineers in the forum?

https://youtu.be/Nx4CAwSLXkY

gudnoyez

Nothing better than a cable debate. Me I'm a believer by actually trying out different cables but having the satisfaction of enjoying the results better cables have brought to my systems. If your looking for scientific facts from me, I have none to offer except for the fact of trying them out on my own.
https://youtu.be/DBYjZTdrJlA
Now once the naysayers start chiming in is when the fun starts. I'm going to get my popcorn ready and enjoy reading the comments.

BlueFox

We are just getting started in understanding how things work at the atomic level. Even though we can't explain it at this time, we can hear it with cables.

gyosa

I think you should get “good” reasonably priced cables - even better if they’re used - more bang for the buck ...
I think The money for obscenely priced cables could be better spent elsewhere ...

Bk

TEAforONE

I hear the differences in cables in my system. I wish I could afford obscenely priced cables. I would love to hear obscenely priced cables in my system. However,that likely won’t happen.

xsmi

Honestly, I was on the fence about cables until Jesse had that MIT trial program a few years back. I REALLY wanted to buy those cables, but they were gone before I realized I could reach out to the company to purchase them. For what they were, I feel they were reasonably priced.

BlueFox

I started out with the entry level Shunyata Venom power cables, and they worked so great I thought I would try the next level up. Yikes, they were even better, so later I tried the next level, and, once again, the improvement was obvious. Eventually, I ended up with the top of the line (2-3 years ago), and have been completely satisfied. One thing though is I would have saved money if I just bought the best at first instead of constantly upgrading.

BlueFox

Also, I have just been talking about power cables. Interconnect cables, power conditioners, and AC circuits are equally important. As I became more familiar with the benefit gained with all these items I realized that cables and power are the foundation of a stereo. Build a good, solid foundation and any piece of gear will work at its best.

audioluvr

Power cables are total snake oil...

mantis

Cable threads will always come and go. It's a part of our hobby and you can only talk about all the other aspects of this hobby before another Cable thread pops up.

So with that being said Thank you for that cool video.

I've been testing cables for decades and I own more cables then any human should. Since this out break and most of us have been sitting home, I decided to start offering some of them for other people to enjoy.

I come to trust only a very select few brands for very strong reasons which I will list the brands below. I also will list a few I will not use.

1) Audioquest - I'm sure anyone on this forum knows I'm purely audioquest have have been for many years. I have found the most consistent performance and absolutely NO failures in their line ever. I literally have installed and tested miles of their cables and never once no matter what that level or price have they ever let me down. They are #1 on my list.
Now with that being said I do however find at certain points to me in my own personal and professional opinion they go to far with little or no benefits. Reason I feel that way is they get it right from the bottom up. They don't build crappy cables at any level from entry to WEL Reference , whatever the asking retail price of that said cable is, you can bet you will receive a high quality product and a rock solid performer.

2) Kimber Kable - Another rock solid brand who makes excellent high quality cables. From need that turned into passion, this is another cable company you can stand behind and feel confident that you have a product that will perform for it's life time.
BUT they like audioquest, they build cables that far exceed the limitations of the actual signal being transferred and have no sonic benefits anymore.

3) Cardas- very like audioquest and Kimber Kable they make some amazing cables. Quality vs value fro hand and hand BUT again just like the other 2, they build stuff that goes well beyond the ability to get the signal there.

4) SURPRISE Monster Cable - Another company I still hold to a high standard as love them or hate them for your own reasons, they build rock solid performing cables. They have very little if any failure. The only time I had a failure was a long HDMI cable. It had a poorly terminated end. This was back when Long HDMI cables where a huge issue and had very high failure rate.

Key Digital? I would never ever use their HDMI cables ever again. I had plenty of failures from short to long cables all over the place.
Another high failure for HDMI is Monoprice. I ran through many of their cables and they all went in the trash. They where so hit or miss I couldn't stand it. What's funny about them is they also build Ethernet cat 6 patch cables which I have used thousands of those and not one ever failed, go figure.

Beldon and Liberity, are Installers standard. They are industry spec built no more no less no bull cables. If you are not into fancy cables and just want rock solid cables that work as they should, these 2 brands are very good for very little money.

Tributaries are solid for the most part. They are another Installers cable brand. They usually build very nice cables but had some issues with HDMI. HDMI for many years just to be fair here had had and still has a rocky road. It's never been a good design and fails even on its very own standards and features that never came to play like Ethernet over HDMI. All their other offerings are damn good. I have many of their cables in my collection and none of them except the HDMI cables ever let me down.

I work with Snap AV which sells Binary cable. HDMI I think they are terrible. They have in proper shielding and interfere with IR emitter cables.
Their cat 6, analog, digital and Speaker wire is rock solid. No issues there, just their HDMI cables are poor. Not only do they leak interference , they tend to have a high failure rate or not even work right out of the box. One thing you have to test is HIGH SPEED CABLES. High speed cables are supposd to under 8m in length pass along 4k and HDR/ Dolby Vision signals. WELL let me tell you this is NOT the case. I have tested 1m length 4k High speed rated cables by them and they did not pass the test. They worked but would fail on Dolby Vision. After high failure rate and the non ability to pass the signal correctly I dropped them from my line up. I have many working Binary HDMI cables but refuse to use them or even sell them on to someone else. I don't feel good doing so as it's very possible like Monoprice HDMI someone would have a issue with them and I'm not into that at all.

So I'll stop there as I could write book on the brands and experiences I have had over the decades of testing and using so many different brand cables from entry level to the very extreme high end which cost for a signal set of 6 foot speaker wires more then most peoples entire system and then some. If you want to know about a certain brand, you can ask me but just be prepared I'm not going to sugar coat how I feel about many brands on the market.

No one should judge anyone for wanting to buy higher end cables, just as a car guy should not judge another car guy for wanting to buy higher end tires or a different brand Turbo then the one they have. This is a hobby and YES snake oil is all over the place and some people are willing to take that chance as some of these higher end cables look incredible. Some will also try to find a cable to do a certain thing in their system they may feel lacks. Thats fine, again we are hobbyist should not judge them.

I think we should take these cable threads in new directions and just share our experiences with brands good or bad and be happy for one another when they find that cable company they fully enjoy. I found mine in audioquest and until they do me dirty I will continue to use their stuff.

tonyb

There are cables for every level of audio your at. Just like there are different levels of car tires for every type of car.....different level of clothes, and so forth. To assume a one size fits all in cabling is pretty much nonsense. You wouldn't put cheap fiberglass tires on a vette, but they may be OK for that Kia Rio.

I do believe cabling is the last thing people look at when upgrading their system. The same monoprice or Bluejeans cabling that was driving your old monitor 50's isn't going to cut the mustard on those new LSIM's you just scored. Everything is relative.

mantis

tonyb wrote: »

There are cables for every level of audio your at. Just like there are different levels of car tires for every type of car.....different level of clothes, and so forth. To assume a one size fits all in cabling is pretty much nonsense. You wouldn't put cheap fiberglass tires on a vette, but they may be OK for that Kia Rio.

I do believe cabling is the last thing people look at when upgrading their system. The same monoprice or Bluejeans cabling that was driving your old monitor 50's isn't going to cut the mustard on those new LSIM's you just scored. Everything is relative.

I must have missed something but what are fiberglass tires? Is that what they use in run flats? I think thats how Pirelli does it.

pitdogg2

mantis wrote: »

tonyb wrote: »

There are cables for every level of audio your at. Just like there are different levels of car tires for every type of car.....different level of clothes, and so forth. To assume a one size fits all in cabling is pretty much nonsense. You wouldn't put cheap fiberglass tires on a vette, but they may be OK for that Kia Rio.

I do believe cabling is the last thing people look at when upgrading their system. The same monoprice or Bluejeans cabling that was driving your old monitor 50's isn't going to cut the mustard on those new LSIM's you just scored. Everything is relative.

I must have missed something but what are fiberglass tires? Is that what they use in run flats? I think thats how Pirelli does it.

Think polyglas tires in the 70's Dan.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goodyear_Polyglas_tire

erniejade

Polyglas tires were great for smoke shows!!!

tonyb

erniejade wrote: »

Polyglas tires were great for smoke shows!!!

Indeed, but you left half the tire on the ground and needed new tires after a few runs.

Point is, life would be boring if we all dressed the same, visually looking the same, drove the same cars, ate the same foods, drank the same booze.....and audio wise, heard the same . That's the thing audio engineers can't replicate, what we as individuals hear. Sure they can sink their teeth into the science of it all, measuring things on a scope, but no measurement I'm aware of compensates for soundstage width and height, placement of instruments on a stage, correct tone, musicality. Never seen a spec sheet with those numbers, and how it relates, good or bad.

So as we've been saying for 20+ years.....let your ears be the judge.

TEAforONE

Wouldn’t it be nice if all cable threads could be so civil? I don’t understand the “hate” that goes on when people discuss the topic. Just like I don’t understand how those little ships get in the bottles.

pitdogg2

TEAforONE wrote: »

I don’t understand how those little ships get in the bottles.

Shrinkage man

audioluvr

mantis wrote: »

I must have missed something but what are fiberglass tires? Is that what they use in run flats? I think thats how Pirelli does it.

Old bias ply tires were awesome for some things like burn outs, fuel economy, and durability but sucked for others like a smooth ride, bad weather traction and if you didn't use your vehicle for several months they would develop a flat spot and until they got hot they would go "flump, flump, flump" down the road.

mantis

TEAforONE wrote: »

Wouldn’t it be nice if all cable threads could be so civil? I don’t understand the “hate” that goes on when people discuss the topic. Just like I don’t understand how those little ships get in the bottles.

It's because we as a human race are tribal. We pick a side and go to the grave with the belief our side is right. That's why cable threads go south in one point of view.

In history in this forum we have had all kinds of threads, some battles some very good educational as we have some damn good knowledgeable members as you may already know who can talk about cables without beating their chests and trashing other members for not agreeing with their tribe camp or favorite wire company.

audioluvr

gudnoyez wrote: »

Nothing better than a cable debate. Me I'm a believer by actually trying out different cables but having the satisfaction of enjoying the results better cables have brought to my systems. If your looking for scientific facts from me, I have none to offer except for the fact of trying them out on my own

As for the cable debate goes, there is science that goes into building them but as for whether that science makes a difference is all dependent on whether your ears are capable or not. If you're happy with lamp cord and a receiver you bought at Goodwill for $50 cranking AC/DC on a pair of Realistic speakers from the 70's then stick with that.

I've "heard" the difference between cables and it's not subtle. I imagine my next upgrade will not be subtle either. As for power cables I think a lot of the improvement you can expect all depends on the quality of your homes wiring, what appliances are affecting the circuits your stereo is on, the quality of your current power cables and the components they power. I'm not bashing whether your system is Pioneer or McIntosh but the age of the internal components

afterburnt

I like cables, they're silly. I don't think much about cables and don't much care to debate about them but now that I am dismantling my systems and wrapping up all of my cables I do wonder what everything would sound like without the ton of money that I spent on them.

audioluvr

Try it! In my case, I have a friend that has my old system before I started this crazy journey. I gave it to him because he needed something and It was just sitting in my closet of shame. He's perfectly happy with it and thinks I'm insane for all the time and money I've spent on what I've got so far but whenever I go over there for dinner and they have music playing I sit in their living room and think "this sounds like crap!".

afterburnt

@audioluvr "this sounds like crap!" Ha, that's what I say whenever someone plays Bruce Springstein.

I have so much to do just to get everything set up again that I don't have the energy to do that as much as I would like to.

ken brydson

pitdogg2 wrote: »

TEAforONE wrote: »

I don’t understand how those little ships get in the bottles.

Shrinkage man

xsmi

I'm hoping that the reason this thread hasn't gone south, is because, I think everyone who comes to the thread sees the intent of the thread. It's not a debate thread, it's more a curiosity and learning opportunity. Although, I have been labeled naive before.

F1nut

xsmi wrote: »

Honestly, I was on the fence about cables until Jesse had that MIT trial program a few years back. I REALLY wanted to buy those cables, but they were gone before I realized I could reach out to the company to purchase them. For what they were, I feel they were reasonably priced.

In case you missed it, https://forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/190749/the-new-mit-matrix-rev-cable-series

xsmi

Yeah, I saw it.

Gardenstater

I'm a firm believer in speaker cables making a huge difference. So far these are the best I've heard on my own system, which I fabricated myself. This picture was taken before I punched the 1/4" holes with a commercial paper punch, for the binding post terminals on my speakers and amp.

mhardy6647

My loudspeakers definitely sound way better with cables than without. The amplifier's happier, too, bein' transformer coupled and all.



DSC_4280 (2) by Mark Hardy, on Flickr

DSC_4469 (2) by Mark Hardy, on Flickr

Mine are flat, too, but I didn't make 'em -- one of the local gurus did, though (cheap but cheerful "Nakamichi" plugs and all), using some surplus evaluation cable from his erstwhile day job -- which is, as it turns out -- pretty good stuff for hifi.

Gardenstater

Plus I like the foil inductor too! Very low skin effect, similar to my ribbon cables. Is that an experimental external adjustable resistance low pass filter for a subwoofer?

mhardy6647

Nope it's an external first order MR XO for my Frankenaltecs.