Phase Plug design for MW65xx

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  • Jazzhead
    Jazzhead Posts: 533
    Transients, PRaT is better, perhaps that's playing a role in the "rightness" of it all. The amps I use have a reputation for fueling fast powerful transients and it's all getting through for sure. Also, plowing the low frequency depths and can better make out the pitch of the lowest bass/piano notes. The high's sound a bit less "hashy", "tizzy". Hard to describe... but better and more musical.
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  • Jazzhead
    Jazzhead Posts: 533
    I shoulda just used coat hangers like it says on the internet.
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  • plastic_avatar
    plastic_avatar Posts: 708
    'use coathangers'
    Took me a minute. Now I'm itching to try it...
    My brain is in a bit of a fog... I'm having a full-on post-Rona moment... Are there any pictures of anyone who did a 4+ plug-per-box? I just finished up my Cube Game build project, and now it's back to the Polks!
    And shims... I might actually print some.
    What thickness should the shims be in mm?
    The Thrifty Setups in Mah House Big thrifty stereo in the basement w/ my custom SDA-1C (built with help from kind forum members) * Beautiful 1966 MCM GE console upgraded w/ Bluetooth, Dual turntable, and Paradigm speakers in family room * Swanky 1980 Realistic system and great TEAC eq with dancing colored lights in the living room * custom 5B on a system for my Dad * Ye Olde college stereo in the garage
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  • Jazzhead
    Jazzhead Posts: 533
    Sorry my sarcasm threw you for a second... I was joking about articles on the internet claiming that coat hangers (coat hanger wire) and high-end speaker cables are sonically indistinguishable.
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  • xschop
    xschop Posts: 5,000
    edited September 2022
    Jazzhead wrote: »
    I just finished terminating some braided Kimber 12tc bulk cable (replaced 10/2 Furez) a couple of days ago. Hard on the fingers as well. I haven't listened to it for long, but so far it sounds smooth, bold, and there is a "rightness" to how instruments sound. It really showcases the phase plug improvements.

    I'm feeling that I gained a little more bass spl/punch installing the Rondo wires (@VR3 recommended). The midrange is still superb, maybe a little more transient response with these wires, hard to tell really and as you say a testament to the plugs and the foam frame mod.

    Next up I have installed a set of Clarity Cap PX on the tweeter circuits. Been listening off and on today. I won't jump the gun, but I'm not hearing much difference.... Interesting

    0eggj54hwidh.jpg
    Don't take experimental gene therapies from known eugenicists.
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  • gp4jesus
    gp4jesus Posts: 1,988
    plastic_avatar wrote: »
    I'm having a full-on post-Rona moment...
    I’ve not had the pleasure of your age. I have post-ronas frequently, daily in fact. We suffer from “Long C19” A very special, wise nurse friend tells me: avocado daily. I try
    plastic_avatar wrote: »
    Are there any pictures of anyone who did a 4+ plug-per-box? I just finished up my Cube Game build project,
    4+ plug-per-box? Cube Game build?
    plastic_avatar wrote: »
    and now it's back to the Polks!
    Model?
    plastic_avatar wrote: »
    And shims... I might actually print some.
    What thickness should the shims be in mm?
    shims? Please explain. Thank you

    Samsung 60" UN60ES6100 LED, Outlaw Audio 976 Pre/Pro Samsung BDP, Amazon Firestick, Phillips CD Changer Canare 14 ga - LCR tweeters inside*; Ctr Ch outside BJC 10 ga: LCR mids “Foamed & Plugged**”, inside* & out
    8 ga Powerline: LR woofers, inside* & out
    *soldered **Rob the Man (Xschop) LR: Tri-amped RTi A7 w/Rotels. Woofers - 980BX; Tweets & Mids - 981, connected w/Monoprice Premiere ICs
    Ctr Ch: Rotel RB981 -> Bi-amped CSi A6 Surrounds: Premiere ICs ->Rotel 981 -> AR 12 ga -> RTi A3. 5 Subs: Sunfire True SW Signature -> LFE & Ctr Ch; 4 Audio Pro Evidence @ the “Corners”. Power Conditioning & Distribution: 4 dedicated 20A feeds; APC H15; 5 Furman Miniport 20s
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  • plastic_avatar
    plastic_avatar Posts: 708
    Jazzhead wrote: »
    Sorry my sarcasm threw you for a second... I was joking about articles on the internet claiming that coat hangers (coat hanger wire) and high-end speaker cables are sonically indistinguishable.

    Ho, no, I got it!

    [chuckles]

    I wanted to follow-up with a picture of braided coathangers, but I couldn't find metal ones in the closet.

    The Thrifty Setups in Mah House Big thrifty stereo in the basement w/ my custom SDA-1C (built with help from kind forum members) * Beautiful 1966 MCM GE console upgraded w/ Bluetooth, Dual turntable, and Paradigm speakers in family room * Swanky 1980 Realistic system and great TEAC eq with dancing colored lights in the living room * custom 5B on a system for my Dad * Ye Olde college stereo in the garage
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  • plastic_avatar
    plastic_avatar Posts: 708
    edited September 2022
    gp4jesus wrote: »
    plastic_avatar wrote: »
    I'm having a full-on post-Rona moment...
    I’ve not had the pleasure of your age. I have post-ronas frequently, daily in fact. We suffer from “Long C19” A very special, wise nurse friend tells me: avocado daily. I try

    Fitty-two come November.

    But 12 in my heart =)
    4+ plug-per-box? Cube Game build?

    Sorry, sometimes I forget I'm in a thread and not a side conversation:

    - I'm putting 'chop's glorious plugs in my 1C, and that's 4 per side. I don't recall seeing pictures of anyone doing a pair of Polks of similar ilk.

    - Cube Game = a project with a friend who creates games, and I spent the past... damn... 5 and a half months working on it and learning how to 3D model and print. Soooo it took up the time I was supposed to dedicate to my 1C, but! I was able to make tweeter plates based on 'chop's Wuhan mod/milled plates, and! I'm going to print phase plugs to put in my Monitor 12 for giggles. I might use glow-in-the-dark filament...

    And if I know how thick the shims should be for installing the plugs, I'll 3D print cylindrical ones for an easier fit (I have a nerve issue, and fine motor stuff like soldering, threading needles, applying superglue precisely, is sometimes a mess, so a cylindrical shim would be awesome).

    Rona issues: I gots the fog and have problems finding my words. Which is HELLA frustrating, since I feel like 3 of my 4 CPUs aren't working, I struggle to say some things, and I have a frakking degree in English, plus one in Journalism (with an focus on diplomacy, conflict resolution, and photo documentary)... which makes it all the more apparent to me that my brain has been affected since January =[ Though my long-**** responses may make it seem like words are shooting out of me like a [and I just lost the word I was going to use].

    My doc said take antihistamines. But I think a solution could be The Stamets Stack (check the Googles), if I lived somewhere that was mushroom friendly =(

    And there we have it!

    Sidetrack level 100!
    The Thrifty Setups in Mah House Big thrifty stereo in the basement w/ my custom SDA-1C (built with help from kind forum members) * Beautiful 1966 MCM GE console upgraded w/ Bluetooth, Dual turntable, and Paradigm speakers in family room * Swanky 1980 Realistic system and great TEAC eq with dancing colored lights in the living room * custom 5B on a system for my Dad * Ye Olde college stereo in the garage
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  • gp4jesus
    gp4jesus Posts: 1,988
    edited September 2022
    RE ‘Rona

    Yours reminds me so much of mine! Imagine us in a F2F conversation?!😂😂

    I turned 65 Thursday.
    Samsung 60" UN60ES6100 LED, Outlaw Audio 976 Pre/Pro Samsung BDP, Amazon Firestick, Phillips CD Changer Canare 14 ga - LCR tweeters inside*; Ctr Ch outside BJC 10 ga: LCR mids “Foamed & Plugged**”, inside* & out
    8 ga Powerline: LR woofers, inside* & out
    *soldered **Rob the Man (Xschop) LR: Tri-amped RTi A7 w/Rotels. Woofers - 980BX; Tweets & Mids - 981, connected w/Monoprice Premiere ICs
    Ctr Ch: Rotel RB981 -> Bi-amped CSi A6 Surrounds: Premiere ICs ->Rotel 981 -> AR 12 ga -> RTi A3. 5 Subs: Sunfire True SW Signature -> LFE & Ctr Ch; 4 Audio Pro Evidence @ the “Corners”. Power Conditioning & Distribution: 4 dedicated 20A feeds; APC H15; 5 Furman Miniport 20s
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  • Jazzhead
    Jazzhead Posts: 533
    xschop wrote: »
    Jazzhead wrote: »
    I just finished terminating some braided Kimber 12tc bulk cable (replaced 10/2 Furez) a couple of days ago. Hard on the fingers as well. I haven't listened to it for long, but so far it sounds smooth, bold, and there is a "rightness" to how instruments sound. It really showcases the phase plug improvements.

    I'm feeling that I gained a little more bass spl/punch installing the Rondo wires (@VR3 recommended). The midrange is still superb, maybe a little more transient response with these wires, hard to tell really and as you say a testament to the plugs and the foam frame mod.

    Next up I have installed a set of Clarity Cap PX on the tweeter circuits. Been listening off and on today. I won't jump the gun, but I'm not hearing much difference.... Interesting

    0eggj54hwidh.jpg

    That looks like a current delivering set-up. I'm not surprised you hear more punch. Interesting with mods how sometimes you get something, other times nothing. Sometimes it's different, but not better. Sometimes, worse - you have to undo it (if you can lol). You never know until you try.
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  • Jazzhead
    Jazzhead Posts: 533
    plastic_avatar wrote: »
    Jazzhead wrote: »
    Sorry my sarcasm threw you for a second... I was joking about articles on the internet claiming that coat hangers (coat hanger wire) and high-end speaker cables are sonically indistinguishable.

    Ho, no, I got it!

    [chuckles]

    I wanted to follow-up with a picture of braided coathangers, but I couldn't find metal ones in the closet.

    A photo of braided coat hanger wire would have cracked me up...
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  • xschop
    xschop Posts: 5,000
    edited September 2022
    Jazzhead wrote: »
    xschop wrote: »
    Jazzhead wrote: »
    I just finished terminating some braided Kimber 12tc bulk cable (replaced 10/2 Furez) a couple of days ago. Hard on the fingers as well. I haven't listened to it for long, but so far it sounds smooth, bold, and there is a "rightness" to how instruments sound. It really showcases the phase plug improvements.

    I'm feeling that I gained a little more bass spl/punch installing the Rondo wires (@VR3 recommended). The midrange is still superb, maybe a little more transient response with these wires, hard to tell really and as you say a testament to the plugs and the foam frame mod.

    Next up I have installed a set of Clarity Cap PX on the tweeter circuits. Been listening off and on today. I won't jump the gun, but I'm not hearing much difference.... Interesting

    0eggj54hwidh.jpg

    That looks like a current delivering set-up. I'm not surprised you hear more punch. Interesting with mods how sometimes you get something, other times nothing. Sometimes it's different, but not better. Sometimes, worse - you have to undo it (if you can lol). You never know until you try.

    I took a caliper to the factor leads and they were 0.050" dia. tightly twisted. The Rondo is almost double that. The factory looks like tinned copper also and under magnifying glass the ind. strands look same dia. as Rondo, just half the quantity.

    The Rondos are keepers.
    Don't take experimental gene therapies from known eugenicists.
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,732
    I like the rondo because it is neutral sounding. You can pretty much install it in any speaker and find good results.
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • pitdogg2
    pitdogg2 Posts: 25,553
    Jazzhead wrote: »
    plastic_avatar wrote: »
    Jazzhead wrote: »
    Sorry my sarcasm threw you for a second... I was joking about articles on the internet claiming that coat hangers (coat hanger wire) and high-end speaker cables are sonically indistinguishable.

    Ho, no, I got it!

    [chuckles]

    I wanted to follow-up with a picture of braided coathangers, but I couldn't find metal ones in the closet.

    A photo of braided coat hanger wire would have cracked me up...

    If he can braid coat hangers, I know who's braiding my next wire project....
    Where have you been all my life???
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  • gp4jesus
    gp4jesus Posts: 1,988
    Has this thread slide into the weeds or what😂?!
    Samsung 60" UN60ES6100 LED, Outlaw Audio 976 Pre/Pro Samsung BDP, Amazon Firestick, Phillips CD Changer Canare 14 ga - LCR tweeters inside*; Ctr Ch outside BJC 10 ga: LCR mids “Foamed & Plugged**”, inside* & out
    8 ga Powerline: LR woofers, inside* & out
    *soldered **Rob the Man (Xschop) LR: Tri-amped RTi A7 w/Rotels. Woofers - 980BX; Tweets & Mids - 981, connected w/Monoprice Premiere ICs
    Ctr Ch: Rotel RB981 -> Bi-amped CSi A6 Surrounds: Premiere ICs ->Rotel 981 -> AR 12 ga -> RTi A3. 5 Subs: Sunfire True SW Signature -> LFE & Ctr Ch; 4 Audio Pro Evidence @ the “Corners”. Power Conditioning & Distribution: 4 dedicated 20A feeds; APC H15; 5 Furman Miniport 20s
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  • xschop
    xschop Posts: 5,000
    gp4jesus wrote: »
    Has this thread slide into the weeds or what😂?!

    VSAT hasn't chimed in yet.
    Don't take experimental gene therapies from known eugenicists.
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  • JayMX
    JayMX Posts: 446
    To further derail… I got the crossovers assembled and installed today. Will be finishing up this phase of the project very soon.
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    Current Collection: Monitor 4a (Peerless), Monitor 5B (Peerless), Modified Monitor 7b (Peerless), RTA15TL (SL3000), SDA CRS+ (194’s), SDA SRS 2.3TL, R100's, R200’s, R300 🤩
    Pairs that have passed through: Monitor 4b (Peerless), Monitor 5a (Peerless), Monitor 5b (SL1000), Monitor 5b (SL2000) (4x pair), Monitor 7b (Peerless), Modified Monitor 7c’s (194’s), Monitor 10a (Peerless), Monitor 10b (5x pair), RTA8, RTA8TL, RTA 11T, RTA12c (194's), SDA CRS, SDA 2 (2x pair), SDA 2a, SDA 2b, SDA 1b, SDA 1c, SDA SRS 2 (2x pair), SDA SRS 3.1TL (198’s) (2x pair)...and more to come, it’s a sickness.
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  • pitdogg2
    pitdogg2 Posts: 25,553
    Nicely done!
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  • xschop
    xschop Posts: 5,000
    Crafty goodness😁
    Don't take experimental gene therapies from known eugenicists.
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,732
    Looking good. I would recommend drilling a hole in the top substrate and securing that wire there to relieve stress.

    Time and gravity can be a ****
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • plastic_avatar
    plastic_avatar Posts: 708
    I'm printing some copies of xschop's phase plugs for my Monitor 12.

    Since I'm going to deaden the baskets when I do the 1C, why not spend another 4 to 6 hours putting in plugs, too?

    Tomorrow, I'll print shims.

    They'll all be black. Pink was the test.

    But nothing looks as good as the OG Master's work in silver.
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    dxuyli42r2rq.jpeg
    The Thrifty Setups in Mah House Big thrifty stereo in the basement w/ my custom SDA-1C (built with help from kind forum members) * Beautiful 1966 MCM GE console upgraded w/ Bluetooth, Dual turntable, and Paradigm speakers in family room * Swanky 1980 Realistic system and great TEAC eq with dancing colored lights in the living room * custom 5B on a system for my Dad * Ye Olde college stereo in the garage
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  • pitdogg2
    pitdogg2 Posts: 25,553
    I smell a royalty fee due....
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  • xschop
    xschop Posts: 5,000
    What is the density of the plastic?

    I found this while researching what materials are used. Besides being non-magnetic, I believe the heavier/more dense the material is, the more sound energy is imparted towards the listener....

    https://www.oocities.org/drpaulng/B_W_Phase_Plug.htm
    Don't take experimental gene therapies from known eugenicists.
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  • Gardenstater
    Gardenstater Posts: 4,500
    Also, I think those pink plastic phase plugs (PPPPs) are more reflective of Bubble Gum Rock.
    George / NJ

    Polk 7B main speakers, std. mods+ (1979, orig owner)
    Martin Logan Dynamo sub w/6ft 14awg Power Cord
    Onkyo A-8017 integrated
    Logitech Squeezebox Touch Streamer w/EDO applet
    iFi nano iDSD DAC
    iPurifier3
    iDefender w/ iPower PS
    Custom Steve Wilson 1m UPOCC Interconnect
    iFi Mercury 0.5m OFHC continuous cast copper USB cable
    Custom Ribbon Speaker Cables, 5ft long, 4N Copper, 14awg, ultra low inductance
    Custom Vibration Isolation Speaker Stands and Sub Platform
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  • plastic_avatar
    plastic_avatar Posts: 708
    GS: The pink makes a good draft print. You can see imperfections that need fixed. And I love bubblegum.

    xsc: I have 3 options for density> solid plastic, solid resin, or honeycombed hollow plastic for rigidity. I'm curious how the reinforced hollow performs, compared to solid. The possible ability of the hollow version to act as a trap for some frequencies while making the shell rigid enough to reflect most... has me curious. As is, the solid resin ones would be the prettiest, dense king of the bunch.
    The Thrifty Setups in Mah House Big thrifty stereo in the basement w/ my custom SDA-1C (built with help from kind forum members) * Beautiful 1966 MCM GE console upgraded w/ Bluetooth, Dual turntable, and Paradigm speakers in family room * Swanky 1980 Realistic system and great TEAC eq with dancing colored lights in the living room * custom 5B on a system for my Dad * Ye Olde college stereo in the garage
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  • xschop
    xschop Posts: 5,000
    Make them as dense as possible. When you install a billet one and a plastic one, put your finger on both while installed and playing.
    At certain midrange frequencies, the heavier billet damped the vibes as compared to the bare pole-piece when I was experimenting.
    Don't take experimental gene therapies from known eugenicists.
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,732
    My utopias use a light weight plastic phase plug, seem to work perfect 👌
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • plastic_avatar
    plastic_avatar Posts: 708
    Time to experiment!

    I have an extra 6502 (the one in the picture). The old pair of Monitor 5 I have are a mess. 1 tweeter and 1 midwoofer are messed up. Magnet shift, I guess. Voicecoils are stuck. The center piece in the tweeter... ummm... word is escaping me... DAMN YOU RONA... the pole piece thingie... is actually over against one side.

    The Thrifty Setups in Mah House Big thrifty stereo in the basement w/ my custom SDA-1C (built with help from kind forum members) * Beautiful 1966 MCM GE console upgraded w/ Bluetooth, Dual turntable, and Paradigm speakers in family room * Swanky 1980 Realistic system and great TEAC eq with dancing colored lights in the living room * custom 5B on a system for my Dad * Ye Olde college stereo in the garage
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  • xschop
    xschop Posts: 5,000
    VR3 wrote: »
    My utopias use a light weight plastic phase plug, seem to work perfect 👌

    I bet your drivers are NOT stamped steel baskets that translate the resonance/frequencies back into the pole piece easily.
    Don't take experimental gene therapies from known eugenicists.
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,732
    The phase plug is solid plastic fwiw

    The baskets are cast, for sure
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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