Suggestions

MacLeod

Not necessarily my brother. Most amps only have low pass and high pass filters. Some like the Polk and JL have full range X-overs but most like MTX, RF and Alpine to name a few dont. They either have fixed X-overs at 80 Hz or they are variable from like 30 Hz - 500 Hz. Most dont go high enough to X-over a tweeter.

I bi-amp my Momo 6x9s and I use the Polk X-over for the tweeter and the mid gets full range with the amps low pass filter on crossed at 80 Hz

exalted512

i didnt know that...
truthfully...the only speakers ive seen bi-amped were all on pretty high end amps
-Cody

MacLeod

It made a night and day difference in the SQ of my Momos. Granted most of the improvement came from doubling the power from 40x2 to 80x2 but with both gains set the same, the tweeter is way too bright. Turning the gain down a smidge and adjusting the treble controls nailed it right in the sweet spot! I just think it wouldve been harder to nail it with only -3 db increments (-0,-3,-6).

But therein lies my problem. Im 90% sure Im gonna go with the MM6 or the MMC6500 for my "hi end system", but finding a 75x4 amp is going to be pricey! 50x4 amps can be had all day for $300 and below. Hell I can get an Orion, one of my favorite amps, 50x4 from a dealer here in town for $300! The next model up, the 100x4, is more like $600!

I may just go with the Orion which is probably putting out more like 60x4 anyway and live with the 120 watts per channel instead of the recommended 150.

unrealii

Lucky for me, my mtx has a 40x frequency multiplier, so I can adjust the frequency between 2000 - 8000Hz . The only thing that scares me about it is that its just a button I press and if something hits it, my tweeters will be toast. Would it be ok, to run the db crossover just on the tweeter signal to prevent any damage if the settings were to be messed with?

exalted512

you can still hook up the crossovers
-Cody

unrealii

Excellent. Thanks.

Systems

so now if i were to use my 40x4 amp on my dx 6.5 compontents, would they be alright, getting 40 to the tweeter, and another 40 to the woofer? being that their rms is 40?

exalted512

if the RMS is 40watts for both speakers...that means you put 40 watts into the crossover and the crossover splits it up
what speakers are you talking about though?
40 watts is pretty low for component speakers...
-Cody

MacLeod

The power doesnt always split equally. Some crossovers use resistors to only allow a certain amount, say 33%, to go to the tweeter and the rest to the mid. I dont know if all X-overs are this way but some are. I know for a fact the Diamond Audio X-overs are 'cause I wrote to the tech dept asking this very same question and that was the answer I got from them.

Systems

dx series 6.5" components, as i said earlier

exalted512

DX...do they have blue tweeters?
-Cody

unrealii

Originally posted by exalted512
DX...do they have blue tweeters?
-Cody

From the pictures I have seen, yes.

exalted512

thats what i was thinking...vince(poweredbydodge) has 200 watts going to each crossover on his DX components, i have one of the DX tweeters in my truck because i accidently grounded out my MOMO tweeter...and i have 200 watts going to the crossover and the tweeter handles it pretty damn well...
not to question you or anything...but are you sure DX components are rated at 40 watts...i thought they were like 75ish...
-Cody

Systems

acording to polks website, the recomended amp power is 5-100, continuous is 40, and a peak of 130, so i just went with the 40 to be safe rather then sorry

unrealii

Originally posted by MacLeod
The power doesnt always split equally. Some crossovers use resistors to only allow a certain amount, say 33%, to go to the tweeter and the rest to the mid. I dont know if all X-overs are this way but some are. I know for a fact the Diamond Audio X-overs are 'cause I wrote to the tech dept asking this very same question and that was the answer I got from them.

Any idea if the polk db crossovers are like that? I have a set of inline filters for tweeters, but those belong to my ex3500 tweeters which I am selling to a friend. I am getting $15 for them, so would it be better if I kept those tweeters just for the inline filters?

exalted512

im pretty sure all crossovers are like that
and yeah...keeping the filters isnt a bad idea
-Cody

Systems

so does this mean i can do 40 to each component and be good to go?

neomagus00

probably... but you probably won't want 40 to the tweets. since they're generally more sensitive, you need less power to them. you'll probably end up (after gain adjustments etc.) with a max of like 25 watts to each tweeter, which is okay. the mids'll be happy with 40 too.

hey cody, what do you mean by "grounded out" your tweet? i thought they got pinch hitters ?

exalted512

those tweeters will take 40 watts easily...unless my momo crossover filters 175 watts to the mid and 40 to the tweeter...
the DXs can handle a lot of power
-Cody

Systems

good, yaah, more power, louder music.

MacLeod

Originally posted by unrealii
Any idea if the polk db crossovers are like that?

I dont know if Polk sets up their crossovers like that or not. Youd have to check with their tech department. I would say they do. Im pretty sure most manufactuers put a tweeter protection in their x-overs and this is usually a resistor or even a light buld (MB Quart music comp).

As far as power, if Polk recommends power at 5-100 then 100 will be fine. They will underrate their speakers in case some young hoodlums like to use enough power to light a town (coughCodycough ). So if 100 is fine then 40x2 (80) will be just fine.

exalted512

yeah, well...6 momo subs later ive come to the conclusion that more is not always better
lol
that doesnt include the mm6 mid that the lead came off of or the mm6 tweeter that i blew...
-Cody

unrealii

I called up polk and asked about my tweeters using the EX filters. The guy said not to do that and said I should get a 4.9-5Mu 50 non polarized capacitor and wire it up on the positive lead. He said to also turn on the slope adjustment 12 or 18db on my amp. I just checked my amp, I dont see any adjustment for that slope. He also told me that adding these capacitors will degrade sound quality. If so, I dont want to do that, but I want to make sure my components will be protected.

However, another idea just popped in my head. What if I bridge the 4 channel part of my amp into 2 channels and run the signal through the db crossover? YAY, or nay? I will probably lose a lot of flexibility in terms of adjustment though. I will call polk up tomorrow and see what they think. Here are the specs of the amp if anyone is wondering.

My DB midrange speakers should be on their way soon

neomagus00

i'd say bridged would do quite well; you'd lose the point of using a 4-channel, but it would provide much more power too. if given the choice b/w degrading my sq and having less tweet flexibility, i'd pick bridged and loud over flexible, quiet, and less clear.

MacLeod

Im not sure why Polk said not to bi-amp those. If the rated power handling is at 100 rms and you bi-amp a 40x4 that shouldnt hurt your speakers.

Once you bi-amp your speakers youll have to turn your tweeter gain down anyway or it will be waaaay too bright so your tweets will be getting less power anyway.

My Momo 6x9s are rated at 100 rms as well and Ive got them bi-amped with a 40x4 and they sound great!! Ive had them like that for a few months now and have had zero problems. Ive not done any super loud listening but I do listen to it pretty stout.

The Polk teckies know a hell of a lot more than me so Im not saying theyre wrong I just dont understand their response.

I dont like bridging 4 channels. First off it more than doubles the distortion. Second your amp will be playing balls to the wall all the time and thats not that good either.

If it were me Id go with the bi-amping. Im not really recommending this cause, like I said, the Polk guys are experts and Im not even close and I dont want you to mess up your gear, Im more just telling you what I would do cause Im stubborn and like to do things when Im told not to!

exalted512

polk said not to use the inline filters from his old tweeters...not to not bi-amp them
-Cody

neomagus00

why would they say that then? does the xover circuitry somehow depend upon the mid being there??

unrealii

The tweeters have different ohm rating. The ex's are 4 and the db's are in the 5's (I think). Could be those filters ex filters are designed exclusively for those ex tweeters.

Here is a pick which has the line filters for those of you who are wondering clickie

I did not have a chance to call up polk today. I'm really busy for the rest of this week, so I'll probably give them a call next week or so. This install isn't going to happen any time before late june, because I have school.

neomagus00

you have school till late june?? bummer - i gradjitate in a couple days !! w00t!!

unrealii

It is until june 18th I also need to figure out a way to ask my dad to modify the stereo because he wanted me to sell my amp, sub, and tweeters with my old car. He doesn't like me investing any money in my car, but I'm in it for at least an hour a day, so I feel it is a smart investment (spending a reasonable amount on the stereo, any other mods are pointless imo) for me.