Sous-Vide Cooking - Let's get down to business!!!

tonyb

Well heck Tom, your just gonna have to invite a few of us over for a demonstration of this steak technique of yours. You've peaked my interest now, and I get like a dog with a bone when that happens.

treitz3

delkal wrote: »

Its a hassle but you can try it with the beer cooler method I posted (with the correct links). Fill up a cooler with 133 degree water (for medium rare), put a steak in a ziplock bag, submerge it in the water till all of the air is out, then seal the bag. Then let it sit for 2 hours periodically adding more hot water to keep it at exactly 133 (that is the hassle part). Then sear it as hot as you can on a grill or cast iron pan.

Wow, that is way too "high maintenance" for me. Part of the pleasure about SV'ing for me is the set it and forget it part. I could not imagine trying to keep a bath within 1 degree for 48 hours. Now, this would be perfect for something like Salmon. 122/40 minutes for a 1” thick filet? Yeah, I could keep the temp close enough for 40 minutes as I was preparing the side dishes and this would be a great way to introduce yourself to SV cooking with things you already have in the home.

delkal wrote: »

This is how I started. It didn't take long till I ended up buying an Anova for a little over $100. They should go on sale for Christmas.

If I were to (with my experience) start over again and was on a tight budget, not knowing a thing about SV? This would be my minimum investment.

Tom

treitz3

I forget who mentioned duck....here is a post found on another forum from my buddy Keith...

Here is another dish showing the advantage of sous-vide. Traditional duck confit involves 6-10 hours of slow roasting duck legs in duck fat, by which time the tough tendons in the leg become meltingly tender. In a restaurant, duck fat can be obtained by rendering out the fat from the skin. After a while, the legs render their own fat so they can obtain sufficient quantity of fat to confit duck. At home, you will not get enough duck fat unless you buy canned duck fat, and this is very expensive! Sous-vide'ing the duck legs avoids having to buy so much duck fat. Here is the recipe.


Ingredients

- 4 duck marylands (femur removed, and legs frenched)

- 1 cup of kosher salt

- zest of one lemon

- 2 star anise, pounded

- 10 cloves

- 1 tbsp juniper berries

- 1 tbsp black peppercorn

- 4 garlic cloves, finely minced

- thyme leaves

- bay leaves


Method

- Mix all the ingredients together, make sure the duck is well covered, and leave to cure in the fridge for 4 hours.

- After 4 hours, thoroughly wash the duck and pick out any spices stuck to the duck.

- Seal in a sous-vide bag with one bay leaf per bag. Sous-vide at 62C for 48 hours. For an even more tender result (at the risk of the meat falling off the bone when you remove it) - take it to 60 or 72 hours.

- After SV, thoroughly dry the legs on a paper towel then shallow fry to crisp up the skin. Cooked legs can be kept warm in the oven - it will not lose its crispness.

- Serve with your choice of side dishes



Here is the duck confit after 48 hours of cooking. Note the juices are still slightly pink. This effect is impossible to achieve with the traditional confit method - medium rare duck legs whilst perfectly cooked.


Frenched duck legs crisping up in a frypan. Note the quantity of oil used. You need to move the legs frequently to stop it from sticking to the pan.


Completed dish, served here with Puy lentils.


Here is another version, this time served with blood orange sauce, blood orange, potato pave, and some veggies.

Now, Keith is not a professional chef but he has honed in on SV to the point that he might be considered one by some. Heck, even his plating is great. If you follow this recipe for duck, you should be able to mimic exactly what he did here.

Tom

delkal

treitz3 wrote: »

delkal wrote: »

Its a hassle but you can try it with the beer cooler method I posted (with the correct links). Fill up a cooler with 133 degree water (for medium rare), put a steak in a ziplock bag, submerge it in the water till all of the air is out, then seal the bag. Then let it sit for 2 hours periodically adding more hot water to keep it at exactly 133 (that is the hassle part). Then sear it as hot as you can on a grill or cast iron pan.

Wow, that is way too "high maintenance" for me. Part of the pleasure about SV'ing for me is the set it and forget it part. I could not imagine trying to keep a bath within 1 degree for 48 hours. Now, this would be perfect for something like Salmon. 122/40 minutes for a 1” thick filet? Yeah, I could keep the temp close enough for 40 minutes as I was preparing the side dishes and this would be a great way to introduce yourself to SV cooking with things you already have in the home.

delkal wrote: »

This is how I started. It didn't take long till I ended up buying an Anova for a little over $100. They should go on sale for Christmas.

If I were to (with my experience) start over again and was on a tight budget, not knowing a thing about SV? This would be my minimum investment.

Tom

The beer cooler method was for people on the fence who might want to see if they like Sous vide first before they commit and buy one. And to try on a thick steak that will only take 2 hours (who sous vides for 48?). This method does work and if you like the results it won't take long till you buy a real setup.

The Anova Bluetooth version I bought years ago started at $200 then slowly dropped to $150. I got lucky and caught a sale around Christmas for $100. The problem is that Anova keeps bringing out different models with fancy stuff you don't need in order to keep their price up. Do you really need to access a Sous vide by WiFi? I don't even use the Bluetooth. I can easily walk into my kitchen and look at the temperature. Its always the same anyway.

polrbehr

Thanks for the help guys. I'm not looking to replace my normal go-to routine, but the idea of getting a head start on breaking down the connective tissue (without making pork soup, anyway) had me intrigued. Next time I do a rack or three, I may just try the water bath method for one rack and see how it comes out. I've got a large enough cooler to do that without committing to SV, I am used to keeping watch on them anyway.

treitz3

delkal wrote: »

<snip> And to try on a thick steak that will only take 2 hours (who sous vides for 48?)... <snip>

I do....all the time. Perhaps that's why my standards of a steak have gotten so high. My wife used to hate the SV on the counter because it took up "space". She didn't mind the second one at all after eating what I have cooked. She is not a picky eater but does not like Salmon or Steak any other way now.

I have spoiled the woman.

Tom

treitz3

codycatalist wrote: »

I know of it but never tried it. MIGHT get around to it sometime but I don't mind the time it takes to cook stuff the old fashioned way and comes in handy whenever you can't take your Sous Vide device with you to family's or a friends.

Totally not knocking it at all, it is a cool method and consistent.

What you can do is cook prior to going. Give the meal an ice bath and refrigerate. Take your SV station with you (I have on occasion, depending on the event) or do the cooler thing that @delkal has mentioned. Reheat the item in a cooler and proceed as if you never took it out of the SV.

Once it's up to temperature? You have something that guests will have most likely never had before without the wait. All you have to do is finish it off at the other house.

Once again, very easy.

__________________________________________________________________________________

You ever wonder how when you go into a restaurant and they promise you an item that has a 3 day cooking time, yet have it on your table within less than 30 minutes? Prime Rib is the "usual" culprit. How in the hell do they do 3 days worth of cooking and serve it that quick without knowing the demand?

Sous Vide.

They simply cook all prime rib to rare or medium rare. When someone orders a "medium", they cook it however their technique may be at that particular restaurant to make it medium. If you order it medium rare? All they do is cut open the bag when every one else's order is ready and put it on a plate. It's already done and has been for maybe even up to a day.

The only other way around this with Prime Rib is to cook it conventionally to rare and cook to order. When the slow roasted Prime Rib is out? Well, you are **** out of luck.

__________________________________________________________________________________

This brings up another point. Usually, things in the kitchen are fast, fast, fast. You miss a beat, you can ruin a meal you and/or your spouse have been working on for days....planning, gathering the grocery items, measuring, preparing certain things, etc...

Well, with SV, you simply concentrate on the side dishes. At the end of the SV, (certain recipes aside), all you do is sear/fry/finish the dish. Usual "cooking" time for most dishes take about 10-15 minutes, including sitting time for meats.

If you come home late, if you have the neighbors stop by with an "emergency", if traffic prevents you from getting home at a certain time, if you "have" to listen to your favorite album whist cooking? It does not matter.

Concentrate on your side dishes. Finishing off SV items are usually quick and seamless, as the "hard part" is already done. Time CAN wait with SV...

One is not dependent on removing things from the SV bath within seconds, minutes or sometimes, even hours or days.

Tom

soupbone

I've been cooking sous-vide for about 3 years, LOVE IT! We will cook the entire turkey for thanksgiving this way. No dry turkey at our house. We start off with the dark meat first and cook that in the water bath at 160 degrees, takes a couple of hours. Remove the dark meat and chill it down with an ice bath and then put it in the fridge. Lower the temp of the water bath to 145 and drop the white meat in and cook that for a couple of hours. Then drop the dark meat back in the water to heat it back up. Remove from the water bath and sear. Searing can be a little tricky with turkey. This year I think I'm going to try the blow torch method. This might sound crazy for those that are new to this but once you get the hang of it, and you see how much more moist the bird is being cooked this way, I think you'll agree that this really is a great cooking method.

Now you might be wondering about the stuffing. With sous vide cooking more of the natural juices are retained in the meat. What we do is prepare the stuffing in a roaster and bake a couple of turkey legs on a rack above the stuffing. As the turkey legs cook the juices drip into the roaster to flavor the stuffing. Again, I know this all sounds crazy but trust me...it's so good!

engtaz

I know about flank and skirt steak but what about flap steak

voltz

not trying to be a snob or anything..but every time i see someone cook a really nice steak in a skillet or oven or boil it it makes me cry

grill you steak for "The love of the Game!

get some dang wood smoke on it and enjoy it that much better...a simple charcoal grill or even a cheap-o pellet grill can take you to heaven ..nothing beats a really nice steak grilled or cook to perfection with that touch of smoke!

just my 2 cents and nothing more.

and a nicely cook potato with a dinner roll and a great bottle of wine! say maybe a Kendell Jackson Melot!

delkal

voltz wrote: »

not trying to be a snob or anything..but every time i see someone cook a really nice steak in a skillet or oven or boil it it makes me cry

grill you steak for "The love of the Game!

get some dang wood smoke on it and enjoy it that much better...a simple charcoal grill or even a cheap-o pellet grill can take you to heaven ..nothing beats a really nice steak grilled or cook to perfection with that touch of smoke!

just my 2 cents and nothing more.

and a nicely cook potato with a dinner roll and a great bottle of wine! say maybe a Kendell Jackson Melot!

I totally agree. A steak needs a grill. But just so we are clear you do not "boil" meat in a Sous vide. The meat is placed in a vacuum sealer or ziplock bag then heated in the water bath to the desired temperature. The meat is only cooked in its own juices and does not get waterlogged.

But YES. If possible finish it on a grill (as hot as you can). You will still get the smoke flavor.

voltz

Holy Smoke!

will somebody PLEASE! Give this man a smoke!

delkal wrote: »

voltz wrote: »

not trying to be a snob or anything..but every time i see someone cook a really nice steak in a skillet or oven or boil it it makes me cry

grill you steak for "The love of the Game!

get some dang wood smoke on it and enjoy it that much better...a simple charcoal grill or even a cheap-o pellet grill can take you to heaven ..nothing beats a really nice steak grilled or cook to perfection with that touch of smoke!

just my 2 cents and nothing more.

and a nicely cook potato with a dinner roll and a great bottle of wine! say maybe a Kendell Jackson Melot!

I totally agree. A steak needs a grill. But just so we are clear you do not "boil" meat in a Sous vide. The meat is placed in a vacuum sealer or ziplock bag then heated in the water bath to the desired temperature. The meat is only cooked in its own juices and does not get waterlogged.

But YES. If possible finish it on a grill (as hot as you can). You will still get the smoke flavor.

Holy Smoke!

will somebody PLEASE! Give this man a smoke!

you my man are right and thank you for the correction!
Vanilla won't let me correct this...So let it be!

TobyM

I love the sous vide. I have the Anova. Perfect steaks every time.

TobyM

My sous vide rig.

engtaz

where did you get the container

treitz3

Okay Ladies, I am back in after the Polk Forum discombobulation. Yes, this is me. "Tom". I am not an impostor and I I do not look like, smell like or even resemble Russ, the flaming "lightman1".

(Thank GOD)

With that said, a guy by the name of TobyM NAILED it!!!

Perfectly seared steak, medium rare to

---

rare steak. With time to enjoy the set-up

Tom

treitz3

...............OKAy Vanilla....

Why the line?

Tom

halen

Okay, been following this for some odd number of days now.

Here are my initial ( four years ago ) and up to the moment experiences. I grill at least two times a week, come summer or winter.

Several years ago my brother and several friends introduced me to Sous Vide, while I found it interesting... I felt there are no replacements for the actual wood/coal/gas fire of grilling/cooking. When my brother came down to Dallas, I went to a place called Local Yocal. Our dearest Russman introduced me to this place. Prior to Local Yocal, I would frequent the local butcher places in Plano and Frisco. Even before that, I would go to a place in Oklahoma City.

Dry aged steaks or Wagyu. Aged steaks, my preference is 21 to 40 days. Wagyu is Class A and 5. Depends on your preference of metric. These are around $80 per pound. Though I do not relish in these type of quality of cuts weekly, rather yearly, I do indulge. So done with background/history.

I would never, and to this day, Sous Vide the dry aged or wagyu cuts. I informed my baby brother. I love you, always protected you, burned downed governor homes for you... but never sous vide anything steaks I get for you. Our blood line will end. So now, everyone knows where I stand.

There is a completely different technique to grilling marbled steak, by the way..

Anyhow. One day years ago, a friend invited me over. He sous vide three different steaks. Tomahawk (bone in of course), Ribeye (bone in as well) and NY Strip. When he took out the NY Strip, he had this fancy blow torch that he used to reverse sear it. It was pretty dang cool actually. After he seared it, he had this other fancy contraption. He placed the steaks into a big bow/container and placed a tube onto it then wrapped it up in plastic. The device was a smoker. It was like a little bong that he put wood chips into, fire it up, and let the smoke, smoke it for like half an hour.

Anyhow, all three cuts were really good. Perfectly cooked and seasoned/smoked. I have tried sous vide countless time after this event. With many different people. All excellent. Yes, the steak was cooked perfect. You have to remember there are no actual flames during the SV process, must adjust for the seasoning.

End game. Same as how I feel about using gas versus charcoal versus lump wood. Nothing beats lump wood grilling.

Like audio. Some days I like bass, some days I like treble, but most days I love mids. Same thing with steaks. But my most days are still lump hardwood grilling on the grill. You could say, maybe the did not SV/Season it right. Well. I tried many. I could also could say the same, maybe you did not grill/season it right.

Only one way to find out. Lets have an audio/SV/grill get together. I am down.

Sorry for grammar errors. I also dont care either.

Halen

treitz3

I love you brother......I have no reservations on this.

Can we have a friendly low down?

Tom

halen

Your place or mine? Dont get me wrong I really like SV, like the Air Fryer (have it) and the pressure cooker too. haha.

Thing is. It may very well be all in my mind. When I travel, I could eat at the best of the very best Michelin Restaurants. By myself, it means and taste like nothing to me. Whereas eating boiled cabbage tastes better and best with close ones.

Low down. I am not the best cook/griller. Hell years ago, Ron @txcoastal1 brought really fancy steaks to my place. Russman came as well. I damn near turned them into charcoal. I was not used to grilling marbled steaks. So there is a learning curve to everyting, SV included. All because I have traveled and love to cook myself, I never stopped learning and above all, enjoying. My experience and knowledge today is just simply a journey.

Hell I am asian and you confused me with all your math talk about audio when we met at LSAF. I felt like I was a poser. hahahha, but serious. I know for sure you know what you are talking about. I just had to give my input with SV.

Regards.. and name the time for get together. or we could plan it together.

Regards,
Halen

treitz3

Halen. you keep downing yourself. This is not necessary. You are a GOD to to most on this board......you don't even know it.

Time and place? Let's talk off line.

Like I said, SV is not the end all to be all...I have a LOT to learn on smoking.....Not Grilling....but smoking. Smack the back of my head and let's get our learn on bro'!

Tom

halen

Here is how I felt when I met Tom. hehehehe. you know who is who. lol. Some humor here.

https://youtu.be/v2aiOhVfJlE

treitz3

You, sir......are a goofball.

Tom

Lostsoul123

This is how it's been done for centuries...

Jstas

Y'all are so cranky and pedantic about stuff. Any stuff.

I grill steaks all the time. Hell, I have a london broil marinating right now for tonight's dinner. It's gonna get seared, 5 minutes per side, mostly to turn the marinade into a glaze then finished on the cool side of the grill for 15-20 minutes. Comes out beautifully medium in the center and as juicy as the Kool Aid Man. It's gonna be in the mid-30's when I'm cooking it too.

I know what sous vide is, if you want to use it, go for it. I have friends who use sous vide systems and they've told me that they can't duplicate what I can do on a grill with a hunk of meat without it. But I don't use it.

I dunno. I don't get any complaints. Hell, I even cooked a steak for Mr. Grand one year because he was one of only 2 or 3 people who came to help me set up a Polkfest at my house. So he got a 3 inch thick, 12 ounce filet, cooked medium well out of me for his troubles and he didn't shut up about it for 3 months, at least.

All I know is that I haven't had any complaints and whenever I have a thing going on, I can invite 20 people but they find out I'm BBQ'ing something, I end up with 30-35.

The things I post on Facebook, my grilling or smoking pictures get the most activity. Like these 3 porterhouses that were about 10" across.



I'd rather stink like a fire than be wet and kinda warm when I'm done, anyway.

treitz3

Jstas wrote: »

Comes out beautifully medium in the center and as juicy as the Kool Aid Man.

The thing about Sous Vide compared to your grilling is that a SV steak would have been medium from edge to edge. Not just in the center.

Tom

Jstas

What's the point of that, though?

What's it get ya? I mean, if I want to chew on a raw chunk of meat, I'll put it in my face hole instead of leaving it swimming in a mini-jacuzzi for hours on end.

polrbehr

I see another meet (meat)-up at Johns' house verrrryy soon... LOL

treitz3

Jstas wrote: »

What's the point of that, though?

Take a look at the picture above. I have always ordered steaks (for example) medium rare, so that way the steak is not overcooked and I get some of that beautifully cooked inside. Since switching to Sous Vide, I always cook my steaks right in-between medium rare and medium and it is that way from edge to edge. So, I get the steak exactly how I want it in every bite. No grey or overcooked bands.

It works great on fish. Not one area of overcooked fish, no matter how thick or how thin.....and it is NEVER dry. All of these are repeatable as well. No guess work.

Once you nail the preferred time and temp for something, you can repeat it as many times as you want with ultra consistent results because you cook things at a precise temperature (within one degree). Because of this, you don't need to pull whatever you are cooking off at a precise time for fear that it will overcook. Here's another example -



Then there is another thing. The texture. The grilled Ribeye pictured above, you would most likely need a knife and a fork. The other one, you could probably get away with just a fork.

Don't get me wrong, I can cook a mean steak on the grill, just as you can. We have both been mastering that technique for decades. With that said, I still grill my steaks but only for a minute just to sear them now on the 900 degree part of the grill....or if it's raining, I just sear them on the stove with a smoking hot Cast Iron Pan.

Tom

Jstas

OK, see, the problem I have here is that you're giving examples of grilled steaks that some **** idiot that belongs no where near a spatula messed up.

I get using it for fish because fish is a pain to cook no matter what but the fried egg, yolk runniness is a matter of taste, not indicative of a poor cooking method. In fact, when I fry an egg over easy, I want that pan crazy hot so the white hardens almost immediately and gets crispy edges while the yolk is as runny as whole milk so I can sop it up with toast.


But your grilled steaks in those pictures? Yeah, atrocious. The top pic, that steak was cooked over a fire that wasn't nearly hot enough. That's why the center is raw and the outside is shoe leather. The ribeye on the bottom? Left way too long on one side and not long enough on the other. That's why it looks like that.

The problem I have with the sous vide method is that despite what you're saying, you're missing the Malliard reaction when you just stick it on a grill or in a pan for a few seconds after giving it a bath for a few hours. To get the reaction you need temps in excess of 280 degrees for an extended period, not a matter of seconds. That's 280 degrees in the meat, not a 280 degree fire. You need 600+ degrees from your fire to get enough heat quickly enough to sear the steak on the outside with the Malliard reaction but penetrate it enough to reach your desired doneness level quickly. That Malliard reaction is critical to the taste of a steak. When you sous vide a steak, you are cooking it without converting any of those sugars and amino acids into the compounds that give you those brown grill marks or the "umami" flavors that come from the Malliard reaction.

Yeah, you're getting it, slightly on the outside. But just because a steak isn't pink doesn't mean there aren't flavor profiles in there that aren't critical to the steak taste. You will get benefits from the Malliard reaction even if the steak wasn't browned. So that slight ring of "doneness" you get in a grilled steak brings hundreds of different flavor compounds to the party in your mouth that sous vide doesn't get close to having.

Additionally, the quality of the compared cuts in your pictures are very different. Your grilled stuff meant to show how inferior grilling is to sous vide...yeah, that ribeye on the bottom is from the end of a the rack where the muscles converge in to small, tougher points full of connective tissues and it's also cut thinner than the sous vide side. You can tell by the mismash of grain in the grilled ribeye vs the perfectly straight, long grains in the sous vide. In the filet in the top picture, again, sous vide side is a prime cut, probably 3 inches thick with nice long grains that tend not to shrink as much during cooking so you don't get the curled, hard egdes. The grilled side? Again, from the end of the tenderloin with the secondary cut still attached which means it still has a thick band of connective tissue running through the middle of it. That stretches and pulls the meat so it's not uniformly shaped and it doesn't cook evenly. To me, in your pictures, I'm not seeing the benefits of sous vide, I'm seeing what proper prep and trimming as well as choosing good cuts of meat will get you vs any old junk from a Super WALMART.

If you cook the steak properly on a grill (should be charcoal or wood, not propane and propane accessories) you'll get a similar result as your sous vide but you'll have a band of cooked meat all the way around that's even. Just because it's cooked in that band doesn't mean it's over-cooked.

That's kinda what bugs me the most about the sous vide evangelism all over the internet. They take horrible examples of culinary efforts and hold them up against a sous vide methodology pulled off by a pro and say "LOOK! LOOK HOW MUCH BETTER IT IS! AIN'T IT MORE AWESOMEREST?!?!?!"

But, it's not.

Does it have it's place? Yeah, sure does. I'd sous vide a pot roast to medium, then sear it and finish it off in the oven with all the veggies just to keep it from drying out. Would be great for prime rib too!

But I'd rather have my grill full of blazing hot hardwood lump charcoal with some steaks that have been salted with a pinch of black pepper and nothing else. Seasoning my ****, a properly done steak needs no help. Fire and meat, that's it. If it can't stand on it's own, you done did something wrong. The ONLY reason you salt a steak..or even a pork chop for that matter is to help draw out moisture and those amino acids to help amplify the Malliard reaction so you get that nice brown crust over that deep pink "smoke ring" indicative of a fire grilled steak.

Now I'm hungry.

Glad I'm marinading a london broil for dinner tonight.

https://youtu.be/tviyAIS9c_U